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Panasonic HD models worse than SD?

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by Mr Eddy, Apr 7, 2005.

  1. Mr Eddy

    Mr Eddy
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    I was reading through this:

    http://www.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/plasmatv-questions/panasonicplasma_1.html#11102260

    This seems to infer that current Freeview / Sky signals and current DVD's will look better on the SD models. Only HD feeds will look better. Since there will be so little HD feeds availabe is it worth getting one of the new hd models if it looks worse with current feed and films.......or am I just confused and missing the point?

    Even with xbox next and sky HD older feeds would still make up the majority of my viewing. I have no intention of renewing my DVD's.
     
  2. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    Bear in mind that's an american site. SD plasma screens have a resolution that is well matched to displaying NTSC signals, but the resolution is actually too low to display a PAL signal without downscaling it. If there were such a thing as a 1024x576 plasma it would probably look stunning on SD PAL, but there isn't. The general consensus seems to be that 1024x768 screens look better than 852x480 screens for SD in this country.
     
  3. Bengbeng

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    Pal res is 4:3 (768x576), if you want to view this full screen without too much distortion (large heads :) ) on a 16:9 screen then you'll have to cut a piece from the top and bottom of the image, this is wat happens with most 'zoom' methods on various 16:9 tv's. So you'll lose some of the image top/bottom, but the actual Pal resolution stays in tact. No scaling here.
    However, if you want to keep the 4:3 ratio on the 16:9 Plasma (black bars left/right) then yes, a SD screen is loosing some definition with Pal.

    Imo, HD screens are the ones that look slightly softer than a SD screen if you'll
    watch a 4:3 Pal image full screen due to the resolution scaling.
     
  4. psychobod

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    I am also currently deliberating whether to break the bank for a new 42" HD ready Viera in May, or to go with the excellently priced PW7 panel. A sub-£2500 price at AV-Sales for the new TH42PV500 with desktop stand and a free DVD recorder seems a very good deal. You also have more connections, and a freeview digital tuner thrown in.

    However, the PW7 panel with component and RGB scart inputs and a desktop stand still amount to about £800 cheaper - that would buy me a lot more in the speaker and receiver area of my soon-to-be-established home cinema setup.

    I will probably wait for BBC HD signals, as I am NOT a fan of Sky - and think the Sky HD service will probably just be set to fleece the lot of us!

    So - The HD benefit will be about a better PQ for watching DVDs.

    Is the issue re DVDs on the US site also due to the NTSC/PAL difference? Or are DVDs on the HD set going to look the same as on the SD panel?

    Some clarity would be much appreciated as at the moment I just feel like I am digging a big technological hole to climb into!

    :lease: :lease:
     
  5. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello all

    The SD vs. HD debate has been running for about three years now and its not as clear cut as 'are x number of pixels better than Y number of pixels'.

    Panasonic employ quite different video processing engines in the SD and HD Displays - the Maximum Contrast and Colours Displayed figures you see in the 7 Series literature all relate to the HD Display; whereas the Maximum contrast figures in the same literature all relate to the SD Display; its all a numbers game by the marketing folk.

    Side by side an SD and HD will on first viewing look pretty similar with a PAL source for most folk - take a minute or two to get used to the image being produced and you'll start to notice more colour banding (unwanted artefacts) in the image produced on the SD Display.

    The HD is having to over sample to 1024x768 and the SD is having to down sample to 852x480 to fit the same PAL SD image on the pixel arrays.

    Personally I prefer the 'look' you achieve on the HD Displays and that's what we tend to supply most.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  6. Bearded_Malc

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    Just to muddy the water a bit don't forget that region 1 DVD will be 480 line so if you watch those they should be a better match to a SD screen, Also, most live TV is semi wide screen these days so is not 576 lines (unless you keep the black bars top and bottom :rolleyes: ). I make it 494 picture lines for a 14:9 picture in a 4:3 frame, but I could be wrong, it is late :rolleyes: .
     
  7. MAW

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    This is just not so. Pal resolution remains the same whether widescreen or 4:3. Weird I know, sorry. BTW it's 720x576, but that's hair splitting. All plasmas scale all signals, ntsc is not 852x480 either, horizontal scaling has to take place. The HD plasmas in theory have the right idea, their pixels are rectangular, like real video pixels. That's rubbish too... it makes no difference, scaling is scaling, as long as all devices know what shape the pixels and the display are, software takes care of it all.
     
  8. Rahmorak

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    If it is anamorphic (like most recent content) you still benefit from full resolution though.
     
  9. Bearded_Malc

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    The other thing to stir into the debate is the colour resolution. The NEC VR5 has more colours than the PW7 and some reviews reckon its PQ is better than the PW7 because of that fact. More detail in the picture, less banding. Black level is not as good, but still acceptable. The new pannys have higher colour resolution I believe.
     
  10. braveknight

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    Still not convinced by these colour resolution arguments - if you are using a digital source (usually the case), then it is almost certain that it inherently has a much lower colour resolution than the display allows for.

    There isn't a lot that a display can do to improve the remove banding from an incoming signal (which it will have when using fewer colours), without causing other problems.

    (IMHO) The one thing that higher colour resolution is beneficial for is scaling - downscaling in particular would map averages of adjacent pixels into a finer grained gamut. Perhaps this is why the (standard res) Panasonics are said to be preferable with 720p signals?
     
  11. Bearded_Malc

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    Where do you get that info from? I did a quick search on this and found JVC say their XV-NP10S etc. have 10bit D/As and their XV-N412S etc. have 12bit D/As. 10bit implies 1 billion colours and 12 bit implies 68 billion colours.

    Plus the DVD player will use all of its range but the screen only part, after you have set the brightness level, contrast etc. to your taste and the room conditions. Hence the screen colours should ideally be more. 50% range would give 8 times more colours needed on the screen if the DVD player is not to be limited. That would suggest 8 billion for a standard DVD player and 544 billion for a hi-spec DVD player.

    The NEC VR5 quotes 68 billion and the panny 3.6 billion. All of which would seem to support the suggestion in those reviews.
     

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