Panasonic HC-V750 for Sports

dosdan

Active Member
I've recently bought a HC-V750 specifically for sports. I've done a lot of junior soccer, futsal, athletics & some swimming photography over the last 5 years. Mainly I've used a Pentax K5 & K-3 with Pentax DA* 60-250/F4 (weather sealed) and Sigma 70-200/F2.8 HSM II.

In athletics I tried the video mode of the K-3 (as well as creating moving sequences from bursts of up to 26 raw shots), and also used my old Panasonic NV-GS400 3CCD MiniDV camera for some sprint race recording (I've got 3 of them for multi-cam stuff, but rarely use them now).

Anyway I decided to get the HC-V750, mainly for the 120fps slo-mo. I'm in PAL land, but I purchased a NTSC version from the US since:

  • It was cheaper
  • I'm only shooting progressive for PCs and modern TVs and I won't have to worry about NTSC deinterlace/conversion issues
  • I want the fastest frame rate for temporal resolution.

There are two main areas I'll be using the camera: coaching & competition.

For coaching I'll be using a static tripod setup (Velbon DV-7000) with ext. Lilliput 7" 5DII LCD monitor (with hood). This will mainly be for discus, long jump, triple jump, high jump and hurdles. The idea is to provide immediate review in the field. (With the K-3 at 1280x720x60p I was having to load it into Sony Vegas Pros and do a 0.25x slow down, before rendering it as a WMV to send to the coach or athlete.)

I was going to get a Casio High Speed P&S (EX-ZR800) to fulfill this slo-mo analysis role, but going the 120fps videocam route will be more versatile and will better suit shooting competition stuff.

I've received the Panasonic HC-V750 camcorder on Saturday morning (13 Dec 2014), and shot a Distance Medley Relay race with it at the QLD State Athletics Facility, Nathan, that same evening. (Google Maps - BTW, the stadium on the right in the map was where the 1982 Commonwealth Games was held.) I shot 1920x1080x60p 50Mbps MP4 format. It was shot at 6.44pm under floodlights. The results were sharp and I saw no obvious noise when watching it on my TV. I was impressed.

Since I'd only received it that morning, I did not get much of a chance to fiddle with it before use, and ended up shooting in Intelligent Auto mode. The image was reasonably bright for action shot under floodlights, but looked a little dull. I improved it in Sony Vegas Pro by cutting the brightness a bit, and doing a slight contrast boost.

Here's an original-on-the-left/adjusted-on-the-right comparison. (I've also add a race-time indicator in Vegas Pro for lap-time analysis):

Video%20Processing%20Comparison.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/3swiegn8q1upiml/Video Processing Comparison.jpg

There was a medium breeze that evening, but the internal mics sounded good with the Strong level of wind noise reduction applied. I've got a Rode VideoMic and Rode Stereo Videmic, with Dead Cat & Dead Kitty windsocks, so I may try them later.

One area I'm finding tricky is the zooming. There isn't much proportionality in the movement of the W-T lever. It's hard to do slow or small zooms, so I'm overshooting the zoom destination a lot.

The Camera can shoot Full HD 120fps slo-mo, which is encoded to a 60p 28Mbps MP4 (50Mbps format is not available in slo-mo). In the camera this can either be played back as 60p (1/2x) or transparently interpolated on-the-fly up to 240fps and played back at 60p (1/4x). This is determined by a menu option.

If you export the file, it will be 60p MP4, so it will play at ½x on other equipment. However you can do a Slow Speed Conversion in-camera and export a 60p ¼x file.

You can also downsize when exporting to 1280x720 or 640x360. Downsizing might be a good idea if emailing the clip to the coach.

There are two options for Slo-mo: Interval & Always.

"Always" means that the whole clip will be slo-mo.

"Interval" means that up to 3 segments within the clip can be slo-mo, while the rest is 1x. The start & duration of the slo-mo segments is determined by when you press & hold the SLOW button. This is obviously inconvenient if the segments will be long, but I can see uses for it. Say you are replaying straight away on-site with an ext. LCD monitor e.g. for coaching purposes. If using Always, it may take a long time at ¼x to get to the part you are interested in. When shooting, by pressing the SLOW Button when the athlete gets to the main part of the movement under analysis, this means that later on, during playback, it won't take long to get to the slo-motion part. Since this is a touch screen, if you want you can press on the replay progress bar to jump to specific parts. Unfortunately, in a mixed speed recording, the progress bar shows the same for the full clip. It would have been nice to have the extent of the slo-speed segments showing in a different colour along the progress bar.

I presume most slo-mo users will leave it in Always mode. It defaults to Interval mode, and inept reviewers have been frothing at the mouth about having to hold down the SLOW button to get slo-mo.

There is no output to a ext. LCD monitor (Lilliput 7" 5DII model with a Panasonic DU21 battery plate – I've got plenty of DU14 & DU21 batteries from my MiniDV cams) during slo-mo recording, but it displays fine during playback.

Here are two slo-mo versions, both in Interval (mixed mode). The lowest shutter speed in slo-mo is 1/120s (NTSC model) but you can go into manual mode and use a faster shutter speed or adjust the iris, gain, WB or focus. It looks like my relatively low bit-rate re-encode is showing a lot of artifacts. For my purpose here, it doesn't matter.

The recording sequence below was approx 10s normal + 10s slo-mo.

The first version is an export without conversion:
Approx: 10s 1x + 20s ½x = 30s approx playback length
Dropbox - Slo-Mo 1.wmv

Note: the video will play more smoothly and look clearer if you download it first. Not sure why Dropbox videos, played online, look so crappy.

The second version is with Slow Speed Conversion:
Approx: 10s 1x + 40s ¼x = 50s approx playback length
Dropbox - Slo-Mo 2.wmv

Here's a Full HD slo-mo long jump sequence resized to 1280x720. My son wasn't in the mood to do a proper long jump, but at least it's a jump. Normally I shoot LJ head-on from the end of the sand pit, but this time I tried side-on. I think I prefer head-on.

The sequence in the video is the jump at:
  • 1x speed. Since I only shot a ½x version of the jump, I sped this part up 2x in Vegas Pro.
  • ¼x speed (120fps, interpolated to 240fps in-camera, and played back at 60fps)
  • 4 cropped frames from the ¼x part, showing how every 2nd frame (interpolated) tries to bridge the gap between the original frames (here, frames 1 & 3). You will notice that there is also some motion blur in the non-interpolated frames. In video, slower shutter speeds are usually used than in stills. Normally you don't notice the motion blur in a video. If fact it helps to smooth out any jerkiness. But you definitely notice it when you single-step though the sequence.
Dropbox - LJ1.wmv

I've just ordered a 5V/9V/12V Li-ion ext. battery pack. 5V will suit the HC-V750, while 12V will suit the Lilliput monitor.

NEW 15000mAh DC 5V 9V 12V High Capacity Rechargeable LI ION Battery Pack Charger | eBay

I've also got Zoom H4 & Tascam DR-2d SD audio recorders, but I tend to use them for near-subject recording and sync afterwards in post production, rather than for on-camera sound pickup and/or recording.

The HC-750 has a rear accessory mount. With the Lilliput montior and DU14 or DU21 battery mounted on it, it's quite flimsy. A good hit of in the field would bend or snap it off completely. It's really not intended for this amount of weight. I'm looking for a good U bracket mount for the Lilliput, rather than mounting it from the bottom, off the camera.

Dan.
 
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Terfyn

Well-known Member
There was a medium breeze that evening, but the internal mics sounded good with the Strong level of wind noise reduction applied. I've got a Rode VideoMic and Rode Stereo Videmic, with Dead Cat & Dead Kitty windsocks, so I may try them later.

Hi Dan
One area I'm finding tricky is the zooming. There isn't much proportionality in the movement of the W-T lever. It's hard to do slow or small zooms, so I'm overshooting the zoom destination a lot

So you have discovered the last of the great HD camcorders.:thumbsup: I've had mine since March and produced five DVDs using it.

First the Zooms - use the App, it will give more control. Plus the T W buttons on the LCD give a slower zoom speed than the toggle and only need a light press to operate.

Now the mono mic - you will need a mono to stereo adapter BUT it is better mounted on a short 20cm extension lead. The addition of the adapter plug with the mic plug can distort the circuit board in the camera so a short lead will remove the load on the external mic socket.

I've also got Zoom H4 & Tascam DR-2d SD audio recorders, but I tend to use them for near-subject recording and sync afterwards in post production, rather than for on-camera sound pickup and/or recording
You will need an attenuator lead if you want to connect the Zoom headphone out to the external mic socket. I use one from SESCOM.

I'm looking for a good U bracket mount for the Lilliput, rather than mounting it from the bottom off the camera.

I use a HAMA L mount for adding extra lighting or a Zoom H2.Although the Lilliput is HD, I use a NextBase car DVD player as a monitor, it uses the A/V out from the camera but gives a good picture.
 
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dosdan

Active Member
First the Zooms - use the App, it will give more control. Plus the T W buttons on the LCD give a slower zoom speed than the toggle and only need a light press to operate.

I don't have a smartphone. Also I read that the R/C is a bit laggy.

I'll try using the camera's LCD screen zoom control. Generally, I'm looking at the ext. LCD monitor for framing if I'm pan-following runners around an oval, so controlling the zoom on the camera's LCD screen may be too confusing.

For this same reason, I found it confusing using touch-focus on the camera's LCD to re-target the AF point during a race. But that was my first serious use of the camera. Splitting your attention between the two screens may become easier with practice.

Now the mono mic - you will need a mono to stereo adapter BUT it is better mounted on a short 20cm extension lead. The addition of the adapter plug with the mic plug can distort the circuit board in the camera so a short lead will remove the load on the external mic socket.

The Rode Videomic, while monophonic, has a stereo 3.5mm plug, so the Ring & Tip, in its Ring-Tip-Sleeve, has the same signal. So no need for a Mono to Stereo adaptor. By "distort" here I'm sure you mean physically stress the socket, possibly rendering it unreliable (intermittent contact), rather than electrically overloading it. (Since a extension cable wouldn't attenuate the signal unless you incorporate an attenuator pad.) There's not much torque being applied by the short cable run from the mic to the camera mic input socket. I would think the thicker HDMI cable to the ext. monitor is more likely to be problematic. It has been unreliable on the K-3, because Pentax uses a micro HDMI (type D) socket. (I work around this by using a rubber band to force it against the side of the socket so it's less likely to move around.) At least the HC-V750 has a mini HDMI (type C) socket. But I don't like a thick cable in front of the LCD screen, so I've ordered a right-angle HDMI-C-to-HDMI-A cable to see if that works any better.


You will need an attenuator lead if you want to connect the Zoom headphone out to the external mic socket. I use one from SESCOM.

I don't use a SD sound recorder feeding to the mic input. If I'm close to a mixing board and can get access the board's headphone socket, I have in the past used this output (with the headphone level turned way down) and feed that into a videocam's mic input. But generally I record the sound close up to the subject using one or more Mini-HD or SD recorders and don't use the camera's mic input at all. But that's for church/wedding/funeral/concert recording. For sports I may end using a Videomic, otherwise stick to the internals.

The main sound issue I'm likely to get is that I'm prone to making a silly low-level chuckling-to-myself sound that can get picked up due to my proximity to the camera ,when the announcer says something funny, or I see a cute looking little kid singing up on stage, or my son or a club member is catching, passing or leading in a race. I try hard not to react, but it's difficult, particularly if I'm getting excited.

I use a HAMA L mount for adding extra lighting or a Zoom H2.Although the Lilliput is HD, I use a NextBase car DVD player as a monitor, it uses the A/V out from the camera but gives a good picture.

Well, with an ext. battery pack velcroed on to the leg of the tripod, powering the camera & monitor, I'm hoping to significantly reduce the high-mounted weight on top of the camera. But still the 7" monitor, with its hood opened, sways a lot in the wind. I don't like the idea either of having something this size and mass (655g with hood, but no battery) only held by 1 socket at the bottom. It may be OK in static studio situations, but in the open where kids are likely to run past you playing and even bump you, it's not what I want. I'd prefer to use the two 1/4" side-mounting sockets. The bigger Lilliputs come with a U-bracket as standard, but there appears to be no such brackets for the 7" models. Still looking.

Do you get enough resolution out of an A/V connection to that ext. monitor to check focusing accuracy when using MF?

Dan.
 
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Terfyn

Well-known Member
Working upwards. Yes there is enough clarity using the A/V output PLUS when the camera thinks it's in focus a blue halo appears around the subject.

I had a real problem when using the viewfinder on my Canon HV20. The on board mics would pick up every noise, especially heavy breathing!!!

The plug plus adapter stressed the socket and contact would be lost on the external mic.

The App control is a bit laggy but does not affect normal operation. It is mainly when switching on the record.

I use the Zoom H2 as an external mic because the Zoom's mic is so much better. I also record directly from my keyboards so the attenuator lead is used then.
 

dosdan

Active Member
In video, slower shutter speeds are usually used than in stills. Normally you don't notice the motion blur in a video. If fact it helps to smooth out any jerkiness. But you definitely notice it when you single-step though the sequence.

BTW, action photographers struggle to get good indoors/outdoor stills under lights. They end up either using a very large aperture and so get small DOFs, which while it may look artistic, but which can make it difficult to see the expressions of others in group interactions. They also may get so much chroma noise that they convert the image to B&W and try for a grungy look.

Since video hides motion blur so well, allowing much lower shutter speeds than with stills, and since I suspect that the brain is more tolerant of the same amount of noise in a moving vs a static frame, video seems the much better medium to use for action sports under "difficult" lighting situations.

Dan.
 
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dosdan

Active Member
I've got most of the equipment I need now for a video setup to use for coaching and shooting events. The idea is to be able to review 1/4x slo-mo sequences on-site during training & competition. When the Panasonic V750 is used for slo-mo, the HDMI output is disabled during the actual shooting, but it's available for review straight afterwards. If shooting at normal speed, e.g. a race, the HDMI output is enabled during shooting.

I'm using a 5V/9V/12V 15Ah DC battery pack. This takes a long time to charge. I think, if it was fully discharged, it would take 18hrs or more to recharge. (I've not fully discharged it yet.) This long recharge time is not a problem the way I'm using it. This pack powers both the camera (5V) & the Lilliput LCD monitor (12V). If necessary I suppose I could also use it to power a UHF audio receiver or a SD audio recorder, but for sports, this is not needed.

I'm not moving a lot with this, so I decided to Velcro the battery pack off the side of the PH-356 fluid-effect head on the Velbon DV-7000 tripod. Here's a shot of the Velcro on the side of the head.


K3_55757.jpg



Here's a shot of the battery pack & LCD monitor with the fold-out hood attached:
K3_55758.jpg

The accessory shoe mount on this camera is flimsy. I'm looking for a better solution. I'd prefer a U-bracket for the monitor.

Here's the setup from the front:
K3_55760.jpg


Before getting the battery pack I was using batteries for both the camera and monitor. Now, I get a much longer running time so I can leave everything on, (before I was turning things off frequently to save power), and I've reduced the weight mounted up high.

You can also see a bottle cap glued to the side of the battery pack. I did this to act as a spacer against the side of the rotating part of the head. The head still freely rotates but, without a spacer of some sort, the weight of the battery pack was tending to pivot the bottom of the pack inwards and open up the velco join at the top.

Here's the left side. You can see the right-angled short HDMI cable I found on eBay to connect to the monitor. This is nice and short and, being right-angled, reduces clutter a bit better. However, using any type of HDMI cable with the camera means that the camera's LCD screen can't be shut with it plugged in.

K3_55761.jpg


The final shot is from the back, showing the system in operation:
K3_55766.jpg


I've configured the camera to provide a "simple" HDMI output, so some of the items on the camera's LCD screen aren't included in the feed. The Lilliput monitor screen is more reflective than the camera's, so even with a hood to block the direct sun, the reflection of my face is quite clear on the monitor screen. Hopefully, one day Lilliput will produce a version with a decent anti-reflective coating/surface.

Dan.
 
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dosdan

Active Member
I've done a recording battery-life test. Using 5V (Panasonic V750) & 12V (Lilliput 5D II 7" monitor) simultaneously, with this power-pack from China (NEW 15000mAh DC 5V 9V 12V High Capacity Rechargeable LI ION Battery Pack Charger | eBay), I achieved a lifetime of 3hr 14mins 30s. This was with both the camera's LCD and the ext. LCD's displays set to high brightness, as you'd use outside on a sunny day. There was hardly any zooming. In real-life use you'd zoom more (unless operating static & unattended), so the expected life would be a bit less.

The recharge time was approx 17hrs.

I've also just received a 12V 9.8Ah battery pack from China (DC12V 9800mAh Super Rechargeable Portable Lithium Battery EU Plug Sale-Banggood.com). I'll report on its tested capacity soon in relation to how long it can power the Lilliput monitor. It's heavier than the 5V/9V/12V pack: 344g vs 285g. The triple-voltage pack's 12V rated capacity is lower, at 6.5Ah, so the weight difference is expected.

I don't trust the stated capacity of any of these packs from China. At this time, I'm satisfied to work with the timed device battery-life. But eventually I'd like to break into the camera & monitor power leads so I can measure the actual current drain & work out the real-life capacity of these power-packs.

Dan.
 
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12harry

Distinguished Member
Very interesting discussion between two knowledgeable folk (- albeit operating in a rather specialist area.).
Although I have a Sony CX410 I wonder if the exteral zoom operation isn't the same as they are almost identical switches ( So, presumably a 3rd party component ). Mine has a centre-off position and two "slow" positions either side. However, pushing the whole way makes it zoom at full speed. Getting the really slow zoom "Creep" is not easy without practice. Maybe the Pana has this dual-speed action?

[ If course, before other CX410 Owners point out, there is a remote control lead which can be set to "Fast"or "Slow"- thus when you ram the lever over, the zoom just creeps . . . When mounted on the rather light Sony tripod, the remote locks onto the pan-handle. This means you can operate the switches without touching the camera body. This was a major reason for choosing the Sony. ]

dosdan
Batteries: - unless you have the necessary skills I'd suggest you don't attempt to delve into those battery leads. The charge/discharge characteristics of Lion batteries is not an exact science, since it's more to do with protecting the battery. The camera will apply a heavy load for a few milliseconds and the change in voltage is logged - when repeated, these values are compared, so any rapid change can be used to shut-off the discharge ( ie Camera stops). The same applies to charging - if you apply an external charger, there is a risk the battery life is reduced.
On this website there was some discussion about those cheap chargers . . . many believe they don't have the extra circuitry to fully monitor the battery - it seems the cheaper ones use only a timer. Whilst this is good for emergency use, it's really inadvisable for regular use, when there is a "proper" one to hand, which includes the sensing of internal circuits.
Finally, even if you know the discharge current ( as you suggested Post 7,) - how does this help? Either you buy the battery on availability/capacity or not - or are you suggesting applying a load to maintain a modest discharge? Perhaps that's it. However, the rate of discharge affects capacity . . . you probably know this.
Bear in mind that batteries ( some claim) need to be "exercised" to maintain max. capacity....so a fresh one may need some "work" to reach capacity.
Of course this is a wonderful "Let-Out" for Makers, so those of a sceptical mind may be un-swayed....



Wow! that looks like a wonderful activity . . . certainly the colour grading applied does something to the images.
Good Luck.
 

12harry

Distinguished Member
Very interesting discussion between two knowledgeable folk (- albeit operating in a rather specialist area.).
Although I have a Sony CX410 I wonder if the exteral zoom operation isn't the same as they are almost identical switches ( So, presumably a 3rd party component ). Mine has a centre-off position and two "slow" positions either side. However, pushing the whole way makes it zoom at full speed. Getting the really slow zoom "Creep" is not easy without practice. Maybe the Pana has this dual-speed action?

[ If course, before other CX410 Owners point out, there is a remote control lead which can be set to "Fast"or "Slow"- thus when you ram the lever over, the zoom just creeps . . . When mounted on the rather light Sony tripod, the remote locks onto the pan-handle. This means you can operate the switches without touching the camera body. This was a major reason for choosing the Sony. ]

dosdan
Batteries: - unless you have the necessary skills I'd suggest you don't attempt to delve into those battery leads. The charge/discharge characteristics of Lion batteries is not an exact science, since it's more to do with protecting the battery. The camera will apply a heavy load for a few milliseconds and the change in voltage is logged - when repeated, these values are compared, so any rapid change can be used to shut-off the discharge ( ie Camera stops). The same applies to charging - if you apply an external charger, there is a risk the battery life is reduced.
On this website there was some discussion about those cheap chargers . . . many believe they don't have the extra circuitry to fully monitor the battery - it seems the cheaper ones use only a timer. Whilst this is good for emergency use, it's really inadvisable for regular use, when there is a "proper" one to hand, which includes the sensing of internal circuits.
Finally, even if you know the discharge current ( as you suggested Post 7,) - how does this help? Either you buy the battery on availability/capacity or not - or are you suggesting applying a load to maintain a modest discharge? Perhaps that's it. However, the rate of discharge affects capacity . . . you probably know this.
Bear in mind that batteries ( some claim) need to be "exercised" to maintain max. capacity....so a fresh one may need some "work" to reach capacity.
Of course this is a wonderful "Let-Out" for Makers, so those of a sceptical mind may be un-swayed....



Wow! that looks like a wonderful activity . . . certainly the colour grading applied does something to the images.
Good Luck.
 

12harry

Distinguished Member
Very interesting discussion between two knowledgeable folk (- albeit operating in a rather specialist area.).
Although I have a Sony CX410 I wonder

- - - - Odd, this is a duplicated entry - - - sorry.

Wow! that looks like a wonderful activity . . . certainly the colour grading applied does something to the images.
Good Luck.
 

dosdan

Active Member
Although I have a Sony CX410 I wonder if the exteral zoom operation isn't the same as they are almost identical switches ( So, presumably a 3rd party component ). Mine has a centre-off position and two "slow" positions either side. However, pushing the whole way makes it zoom at full speed. Getting the really slow zoom "Creep" is not easy without practice. Maybe the Pana has this dual-speed action?

I've had a lot of video cams & camcorders over the years. There was one that had a really nice progressive zoom-speed-control paddle. I think it was either a JVC GR-900 MiniDV or a Panasonic RX-10A VHS-C. Can't remember how progressive the zoom speed action was in the Sony HVC-2000 video camera (HVC-2000)

Batteries: - unless you have the necessary skills I'd suggest you don't attempt to delve into those battery leads. The charge/discharge characteristics of Lion batteries is not an exact science, since it's more to do with protecting the battery. The camera will apply a heavy load for a few milliseconds and the change in voltage is logged - when repeated, these values are compared, so any rapid change can be used to shut-off the discharge ( ie Camera stops). The same applies to charging - if you apply an external charger, there is a risk the battery life is reduced.

I'd like to determine the avg. discharge current when recording. If it's constant, I can use a DVM. If the current drain is pulsed, but the frequency of the pulses is high enough, the inertia in a analogue multimeter is the best bet. If the duty cycle of the current drain is too low or slow, I'd have to use a dual-channel oscilloscope measuring the differential voltage drop across a small series resistance, e.g. 0.1 ohms, and estimate the avg. current drain.

Once I know the avg. current drain of the camera or monitor, and have timed the duration the device will run from the battery pack, I can work out the effective capacity of the battery pack with this device. ("Effective" in the sense that it includes the voltage droop characteristic of the Li-Ion battery and the cut-off voltage point for either the powered device or the battery's internal protection circuit.)

While the duration the device operates on a charge is important, it's worthwhile, (perhaps just for future purchasing reasons), to also know the effective capacity of Chinese batteries.

I'll probably use this 12V 9.8Ah pack for LED lighting in non-sports situations. I'll have to investigate how much energy storage is required to produce a certain lux level for a certain duration.

_____________________________________________________________________

I'm a believer in having a lot of redundancy in cameras, lenses, batteries & memory cards when it comes to shooting stills or videos. If there's a opportunity to forget, drop or break something critical, I will. I usually go through it in my head when I get in the car to leave home, but this procedure isn't infallible. I should do up a check-list.

For sports stills, I take both a Pentax K5 & K3, with a spare battery in one of the camera bags, (they use the same battery), even if I only plan to use 1 camera. Same with a spare memory card. Same with taking 2 longer zoom lenses (Pentax 60-250/F4 & Sigma 70-200.F2.8), a short zoom (Sigma 17-70/F2.8-F4.5) and 1 or 2 primes (Pentax 50/F1.7 & 35/F2.4).

On Saturday, I used video to shoot at 2 athletics meetings. In between the meetings, (one was a Twilight Carnival, so it started late in the day), I went home and recharged the 5V/9V/12V battery pack. (I didn't need to do this.) As it happened, when I arrived at the 2nd meeting, I found I'd left this power pack on the charger.

First I thought: "Well I've 1 battery for the V750 so I can shoot with this as long as I'm careful to turn it off frequently." (If I had forgotten that battery as well, I'd have used the video mode on the K-3 for some events and shot stills for the rest.)

Next, I realised I had kept my 2nd VW-VBT190 battery in the pocket of the video bag. So now I could be less rigorous in turning off the video camera.

Then I had to consider the Lilliput ext. monitor. Normally, I'd power it off the 12V output of the 5V/9V/12V pack. But I'm still carrying around a lot of Panasonic DU14/DU21 videocam batteries for this monitor, although I thought I may have left out the battery adapter mounting plate to use different brand batteries with this monitor. So I thought, "I'll have to run without an ext. monitor". But when I checked my monitor bag, the battery mounting plate was still in there, as well as the batteries.

And a number of times I've left a SD card in a ext. card reader, but been saved through having another card in the pockets of one of my two stills camera bags.

Once, I even forgot my stills camera tripod for a Saturday morning soccer match, (I prefer using a tripod, instead of either free-hand or a monopod, for most sports as it makes leveling afterwards easier), but still had my heavy-duty video camera tripod in the car from a video shot of a birthday on Friday evening, so I used that to shoot sports stills. (The viscous drag of the fluid-effect video head was not ideal when pan-following fast action.)

Dan.
 
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dosdan

Active Member
I've done a battery comparison test, comparing the Panasonic VW-VBT190 (1940mAh) vs the 5V/9V/12V battery powerpack (the 5V output from this powerpack is claimed to have a capacity of 15000mAh). The camera was static, with the camera's LCD screen on "+1" (max. brightness). The recording duration reported here will not be obtained in normal use due to the extra drain from operating the zooming & AF motors. (No ext. LCD monitor was being powered in this test.)

Panasonic battery: 2:00:42
5V outlet from power pack: 10:31:10

If the 1,940mAh capacity rating of the Panasonic battery is accurate, the 5V "15,000mAh" output of the power pack achieves an actual capacity of 631.2 mins/120.7mins * 1940mAh = 10,145mAh.

Dan.
 
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dosdan

Active Member
Here is a 1/8x set of 3 long jumps. The boy is very talented. His father has the older Panasonic HC-V500 camcorder which doesn't have slo-mo, was having trouble due to the low position of the sun in the sky and was shooting handheld.

I'm interested in this boy because, although this is his first season of athletics, and he has had no special coaching, his performance for his age in Long Jump is at the National Championships level. His parents didn't realise this. I advised them of just how good their son's personal best distance is compared to the results from the 2014 Queensland State Little Athletics Championships (1st) & Australian Schools Championships (3rd), sent the clip to my son's coach, and now this boy is part of the coaching squad.

You can see from the long shadows in the clip that the sun is in the background. I got up on the side of the hill so I was looking down, but was now some distance away. This was to get the sun out of the frame. The result was reasonable considering the late time of day (this was the Ipswich Twilight Carnival) and the back lighting.

The jumps were shot at 120fps. I forget to do a further slo-mo conversion in the camera before exporting at 60fps, so the exported clips were only 1/2x.

When I combined them in Sony Vegas Pro, I initially did a further 1/2x slo-down, but the jumps were still fairly short in duration. So I went to a full 1/4x slo-down, which means that the result is at 1/8x of the original speed. You can see that this speed is too slow not to see interpolation ghosting, (I think I left "Smart Resample" selected in Vegas - normally, if I do a full 1/4x slow-down in Vegas I prefer to untick this as I'd rather see a slightly "steppy" sequence vs a partially ghosted sequence), but the longer clips are now more satisfying to watch.


To view you will need to right-click on the link below and select Save Link As, to download it first.

http://users.on.net/~dosdan/BL_LJ.wmv

Dan.
 
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dosdan

Active Member
Sorry, rogs. After posting the message, I renamed the file to remove a space in its name. When I edited the link in the message to suit the new filename, it only changed the link label, not it's actual URL. Here it is:

To view you will need to right-click on the link below and select Save Link As, to download it first.

http://users.on.net/~dosdan/BL_LJ.wmv

Dan.
 

rogs

Well-known Member
As you say.. a talented jumper!......

It's a shame you didn't do the extra conversion in the camera. As Vegas (and most other editors) only interpolate extra frames into the footage pretty basically, the 'stepping' does rather spoil the effect a bit.

We had a thread about this last year (see HERE) . Unfortunately many of the clips have now been taken down, but I did find a copy of one of the clips I made using the free MVtools, which allowed me to slow down by 10x, with virtually no 'stepping' (or 'ghosting') introduced into the interpolated frames.

(There's a copy HERE of that clip -- it's about 30MB)

Not as effective as shooting at 100fps (or120fps) as original footage of course.

Be interesting to see what some of the genuine Panasonic original 120fps 'slomo' footage would look when edited with something like MVtools (or 'Twixtor' if you're feeling rich!).......rather than with the simple 'stepped' interpolated frames that most NLEs introduce...
 
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dosdan

Active Member
As you say.. a talented jumper!......

It's a shame you didn't do the extra conversion in the camera. As Vegas (and most other editors) only interpolate extra frames into the footage pretty basically, the 'stepping' does rather spoil the effect a bit.

We had a thread about this last year (see HERE) . Unfortunately many of the clips have now been taken down, but I did find a copy of one of the clips I made using the free MVtools, which allowed me to slow down by 10x, with virtually no 'stepping' (or 'ghosting') introduced into the interpolated frames.

(There's a copy HERE of that clip -- it's about 30MB)

Not as effective as shooting at 100fps (or120fps) as original footage of course.

Be interesting to see what some of the genuine Panasonic original 120fps 'slomo' footage would look when edited with something like MVtools (or 'Twixtor' if you're feeling rich!).......rather than with the simple 'stepped' interpolated frames that most NLEs introduce...

Thanks, rogs for the comments and the info. I'll check out that thread soon.

I've been shooting events at the Little Athletics SE Regional championships on the 7-8 Feb. (Top 4 finishers go to States.) Yesterday, I shot a 400m in normal speed. Same with the 800m I'll be shooting today. But the Discus I'll definitely be shooting in slo-mo. Once that's over I'll have some time to read that thread and play around with slo-mo processing.

Dan.
 

dosdan

Active Member
I purchased a cheap USB voltage/current monitor. The Panasonic HC-V750, when powered directly from the mains-to-USB power pack (no battery attached), for the 3 display brightness settings (-1/0/+1), consumes this much current:

Brightness | Paused | Recording
-1
|0.65A|0.69-0.76A
0 |0.69A|0.73-0.80A
+1 |0.75A|0.79-0.86A

This was for a static scene shot from a tripod so the AF is not working hard.

The packet (intermittent) nature of writing to the SD card causes the recording current consumption to vary slightly. Without using a data logger with a high sampling rate, or an oscilloscope, it is not possible to give a more accurate indication of the average recording current.

BTW, using the zooming temporarily increases the current drain by approx. 0.18A.

The charging current to the camera, with a VW-VBT190 (1940mAh) battery attached, also varies over the duration of the charging process. If the battery is already fully discharged, the initial charging current starts at 1.14A and quickly climbs to a max. of about 1.25A. From there it very gradually reduces to a min. of about 0.15A, just before terminating the charge. So I'm unable to give an avg. charging current.

Dan.
 
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Jope Waterfall

Novice Member
Can someone kindly tell me how to turn off the info on the display on this HC-V750? I sure don't like seeing all that clutter when I'm trying to frame a shot.
 

Terfyn

Well-known Member
Go to MENU > SETUP. Check that DISPLAY is set to 5 seconds. I don't think you can get rid of it totally.
 

dosdan

Active Member
While you can't get a completely uncluttered LCD display, you can get a clear HDMI output signal using MENU, SETUP, EXT. DISPLAY, OFF. This option doesn't disable the HDMI output, only the info overlays.

As Terfyn mentions, you can use MENU, SETUP, DISPLAY | 5 SECONDS to get a minimal info display on the LCD. When you touch on the screen, the detailed info temporarily reappears.

BTW, in case you missed it in the manual, in Playback mode you can use the W-T zoom control to switch between 20-thumbnails (5x4), 9-thumbnails (3x3) and 1-thumbnail + date + duration of recording.

The ALL button on the left of the playback screen can be pressed to switch to (recorded) DATE selection mode.

Dan.
 
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Terfyn

Well-known Member
While you can't get a completely uncluttered LCD display, you can get a clear HDMI output signal using MENU, SETUP, EXT. DISPLAY, OFF. This option doesn't disable the HDMI output, only the info overlays.
The original question referred to framing a shot and is clearly related to recording and not to playback.
 

dosdan

Active Member
The original question referred to framing a shot and is clearly related to recording and not to playback.

And the first part of my reply dealt with the HDMI output which is active both during standard recording and during playback. I often use a ext. LCD monitor, connected by HDMI, when doing a normal recording.

If I'm doing a slo-mo recording, I don't use the ext. monitor, when recording, as the HDMI output is specifically disabled during this recording mode. At such times, I only use the ext. monitor to playback the slo-mo sequence on-site.

Dan.
 

Jope Waterfall

Novice Member
Thanks guys. And yes I'm talking about recording not playing back. But that 5 second button doesn't work. The display info stays on screen. Same goes for ON position. There is no difference. Do I have a faulty camera?
 

Terfyn

Well-known Member

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