Panasonic GZ OLED Series Owners Thread

zoli0726

Member
Hi Guys!
I have a slight problem with my GZ950 using with a ps4 pro in hdr mode.
When I set the picture mode to Game, the colors in this mode look very dull unless i enable rec2020 remaster. But since the colors are already rec2020 from the ps4, why would I want it to remaster them, especially in game mode, where I would like to minimize processing? Looks like in this mode, the TV incorrectly recognizes the hdmi signal as rec 709. I cannot change the color gamut, since the special options are greyed out in this mode, but, when manually changing hdmi color input, it has zero effect, while for ex in pro mode, if I manually(and incorrectly) select rec 709 as hdmi input in hdr, it actually changes the colors unlike in game mode, and does look exactly like the dull colors in game mode.
So all in all, it looks like for some reason, game mode has forced gamut to rec 709 in hdr mode, but I have no idea why they did this.
Could someone also confirm this?
 

luisreg81

Standard Member
Hello!

I've got my GZ950B 65" delivered today, super happy!

Maybe I can pick your brains on this:

SETUP: Apple TV 4K > Samsung Q950T > Pana GZ950B 65"

1) 4K Pure Direct ON/OFF? My ATV4 has 4:4:4 output enabled atm. Have you experienced any advantage?

2) What are your optimal VIDEO OUTPUT settings on ATV4? Currently I'm at: 4K SDR 60hz as default output w/ FR and DR enabled.

3) Would you change FR to OFF and leave the output fixed to 4K/60hz to have better overall playback of 30fps and 60fps content from the Apple Tv video apps?

4) Have you set your gamma to 2.2 or 2.4? (I work in post production and all our broadcast reference Sony OLED monitors are set to 2.4)

Thanks for your input!

L
 
1) On the face of it, Pure Direct sounds like something you would want. However, in this case you really don't! If you present a 24P input to the TV and have either Pure Direct or Game Mode on, the TV will render it to the screen at 60P with 3:2 pulldown frame repeats.

2) Doesn't sound unreasonable. It basically means your menus etc will be in 60Hz but this will be overridden by the native frame rate of a movie etc.

3) Not sure, but it would have a detrimental effect on 24P material - effectively forcing the ATV to add 3:2 pulldown to the picture.

4) I personally use 2.2, I find 2.4 feels a little crushed. I'm from a similar background but grew up with CRT gamma.
 

luisreg81

Standard Member
Great input Steve, thank you!

I'm using CalmanHome with 2.2 and 2.4 to see what works out better, will update.

Using the ATV with FR on means the TV switches frequency every time I play different content. Not a problem with that but is there any way to disable the "Format/Freq" status box appearing on the top left of the Panasonic?
 

luisreg81

Standard Member
MODEL: 65GZ950B

CALIBRATION SETTINGS:
SDR / REC709 / 2.4 Gamma / D65 / 150nits (my preference for room & eye comfort)

PRE calibration (factory defaults)
RGB: 4.4
DELTA 2000: 6.7
IMG_3833.JPG


POST calibration
RGB: 0.6
DELTA 2000: 0.5
IMG_3841.JPG


POST settings:
IMG_3846.JPG

IMG_3844.JPG

IMG_3844.JPG
 

laknaths

Active Member
Great input Steve, thank you!

I'm using CalmanHome with 2.2 and 2.4 to see what works out better, will update.

Using the ATV with FR on means the TV switches frequency every time I play different content. Not a problem with that but is there any way to disable the "Format/Freq" status box appearing on the top left of the Panasonic?
I think you can turn it off in one of the settings menus, but I find it useful personally. I'm sure you can reduce how long it's on screen for, I think I have mine set to 2 seconds.
 

luisreg81

Standard Member
Very nice post calibration graph. How much did you have to tweak the white balance settings?
Nothing, just went with D65 / 75% targets, default for Panasonic cal by CalMan.

I did run the calibration 3-4 times, starting with the previously obtained values every time. With each pass the reults where more accurate.

L
 

youngsyp

Distinguished Member
MODEL: 65GZ950B

CALIBRATION SETTINGS:
SDR / REC709 / 2.4 Gamma / D65 / 150nits (my preference for room & eye comfort)

PRE calibration (factory defaults)
RGB: 4.4
DELTA 2000: 6.7
View attachment 1388775

POST calibration
RGB: 0.6
DELTA 2000: 0.5
View attachment 1388776

POST settings:
View attachment 1388777
View attachment 1388778
View attachment 1388779
Nice work.

Some observations.

1. You're using the wrong meter offset. OLED is for RGB OLEDs, not WRGB OLEDs like the Panasonic. For a more accurate reading/ calibration, you should use 'Raw xyY'.

2. Your meter is too close to the TV. WRGB OLEDs give off quite a lot of heat at the screen, which will affect how the meter is reading. As such, all readings should be taken from a distance away from the screen. I use around 12/ 12.5cm, having done some research into the subject.

3. You have 'Noise Reduction' enabled. Disable it as it'll do nothing useful for HD nor HDR content but, could skew your readings.

4. You've adjusted Contrast and Brightness. Neither are necessary and will both be detrimental to the image your watching. I.e. by adjusting Brightness as you have, the TV will no longer display black.

5. You've adjusted the CMS. If you nail the White Balance, you shouldn't need to touch the CMS at all.

Attached is one of my calibrations, on my GZ2000, using a profiled i1D3. This was achieved by adjusting the White Balance and Gamma (luminance) only.

Paul
 

Attachments

luisreg81

Standard Member
Nice work.

Some observations.

1. You're using the wrong meter offset. OLED is for RGB OLEDs, not WRGB OLEDs like the Panasonic. For a more accurate reading/ calibration, you should use 'Raw xyY'.

2. Your meter is too close to the TV. WRGB OLEDs give off quite a lot of heat at the screen, which will affect how the meter is reading. As such, all readings should be taken from a distance away from the screen. I use around 12/ 12.5cm, having done some research into the subject.

3. You have 'Noise Reduction' enabled. Disable it as it'll do nothing useful for HD nor HDR content but, could skew your readings.

4. You've adjusted Contrast and Brightness. Neither are necessary and will both be detrimental to the image your watching. I.e. by adjusting Brightness as you have, the TV will no longer display black.

5. You've adjusted the CMS. If you nail the White Balance, you shouldn't need to touch the CMS at all.

Attached is one of my calibrations, on my GZ2000, using a profiled i1D3. This was achieved by adjusting the White Balance and Gamma (luminance) only.

Paul
Hi Paul, thanks a lot, this is some great and useful info!

some notes:

1. I went OLED as I believed AutoCal for Panasonic would already take in account the OLED type. I'm not sure I can select Raw XYZ but will try again.

2. Using the i1 here > Would you use it with the diffuser ON at such a distance?

4. the Contrast/Brightness settings were not adjusted by me, but are the result of AutoCal controlling the TV settings. In order to leave them at factory defaults I would need to skip the contrast & luminance section of the calibration: would that not give me a false result?

5. CMS was modified by AutoCal again, how can I disable it? Should I just skip these sections of the calibration altogether?

WOW impressed by your results! Have you target for BT1886/2.4 or 2.2 gamma?

L
 

youngsyp

Distinguished Member
Was bored on Saturday evening so decided to re-calibrate the HDR inputs on my GZ2000. It hadn't twigged with me before and may be useful to fellow amateur calibrators here. When adjusting the white balance, you'll note that the DDC controls are set as follows: 0, 6.4, 12, 19.6, 30.6, 38, 44, 48.4, 53, 58.4, 63.5, 68.5 and 72,6. So essentially, you can't adjust any point above 72.6 or where the panel just goes for maximum output. Well, you can but, you have to use the much coarser 2 point adjustments for this. Fortunately, you can reduce errors, in the 72.6> levels enough using the courser controls.
With CalMAN, you can adjust the patterns that are shown to replicate what levels you can actually adjust and this will lead to a much more consistent and less frustrating calibration session. If any CalMAN users would like to know how to do this, please ping me and I'll put a guide together.

For those that use other calibration software, this is still pertinent as you'll be using the displays menu controls and these are labelled to adjust: 2.5, 5, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100. And obviously, when using these, those aren't the actual levels you're adjusting. For example, if you use the '90' control, you'll actually be adjusting 68.5% stimulus, and not 90% stimulus.

Paul
 

luisreg81

Standard Member
Fortunately, you can reduce errors, in the 72.6> levels enough using the courser controls.
With CalMAN, you can adjust the patterns that are shown to replicate what levels you can actually adjust and this will lead to a much more consistent and less frustrating calibration session. If any CalMAN users would like to know how to do this, please ping me and I'll put a guide together.
Paul
Would love to have some detailed guide on this if you wanna share.

Thank you!
L
 

youngsyp

Distinguished Member
Hi Paul, thanks a lot, this is great info!

some notes:

1. I went OLED as I believed AutoCal for Panasonic would already take in account the OLED type. I'm not sure I can select Raw XYZ but will try again.

2. Using the i1 here > Would you use it with the diffuser ON at such a distance?

4. the Contrast/Brightness settings were not adjusted by me, but are the result of AutoCal controlling the TV settings. In order to leave them at factory defaults I would need to skip the contrast & luminance section of the calibration: would that not give me a false result?

5. CMS was modified by AutoCal again, how can I disable it? Should I just skip these sections of the calibration altogether?

WOW impressed by your results! Have you target for BT1886/2.4 or 2.2 gamma?

L
Hey, no worries. we're all here to help.

OK, some of this makes sense and is proof that AutoCal isn't what it might seem.

1. No, 'OLED' is specifically for RGB OLEDs. It would have been great for this to have been labelled as such but, that's CalMAN for you.

2. No, the diffuser is there for when light output is measured in specific circumstances. You shouldn't use the diffuser at all when measuring for calibrating your TV.
I use a tripod to get the meter the distance from the screen I want.

4. Another example of AutoCal ballsing up the image. Although the charts will look good, what you actually end up with will be far from 'calibrated'. Can you request the software to ignore Contrast and Brightness?

5. As above but, you should be able to select to perform just a White Balance/ Gamma calibration and not have it adjust the CMS.

That was aiming for BT.1886.

I should also point out that I never use AutoCal. All my calibrations are performed manually.

Paul
 

CaptainJames

Active Member
Was bored on Saturday evening so decided to re-calibrate the HDR inputs on my GZ2000. It hadn't twigged with me before and may be useful to fellow amateur calibrators here. When adjusting the white balance, you'll note that the DDC controls are set as follows: 0, 6.4, 12, 19.6, 30.6, 38, 44, 48.4, 53, 58.4, 63.5, 68.5 and 72,6. So essentially, you can't adjust any point above 72.6 or where the panel just goes for maximum output. Well, you can but, you have to use the much coarser 2 point adjustments for this. Fortunately, you can reduce errors, in the 72.6> levels enough using the courser controls.
With CalMAN, you can adjust the patterns that are shown to replicate what levels you can actually adjust and this will lead to a much more consistent and less frustrating calibration session. If any CalMAN users would like to know how to do this, please ping me and I'll put a guide together.

For those that use other calibration software, this is still pertinent as you'll be using the displays menu controls and these are labelled to adjust: 2.5, 5, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100. And obviously, when using these, those aren't the actual levels you're adjusting. For example, if you use the '90' control, you'll actually be adjusting 68.5% stimulus, and not 90% stimulus.

Paul
I kinda get the impression that calibration is one those areas where a little knowledge is a dangerous thing - which is why I stay away! I'll leave it to Paul and those in the know.....
 

luisreg81

Standard Member
Hey, no worries. we're all here to help.

OK, some of this makes sense and is proof that AutoCal isn't what it might seem.

1. No, 'OLED' is specifically for RGB OLEDs. It would have been great for this to have been labelled as such but, that's CalMAN for you.

2. No, the diffuser is there for when light output is measured in specific circumstances. You shouldn't use the diffuser at all when measuring for calibrating your TV.
I use a tripod to get the meter the distance from the screen I want.

4. Another example of AutoCal ballsing up the image. Although the charts will look good, what you actually end up with will be far from 'calibrated'. Can you request the software to ignore Contrast and Brightness?

5. As above but, you should be able to select to perform just a White Balance/ Gamma calibration and not have it adjust the CMS.

That was aiming for BT.1886.

I should also point out that I never use AutoCal. All my calibrations are performed manually.

Paul
I've noticed you are using CalMan Home as well (not the full edition), I will go the manual route so follow your steps. I used the AutoCal as I got the set this weekend and wanted to have a quick "close to" calibration, but will spend quite a lot of time on the manual side of things during the next few days and post my results back.

L
 

youngsyp

Distinguished Member
I kinda get the impression that calibration is one those areas where a little knowledge is a dangerous thing - which is why I stay away!
I would 100% agree. I've been calibrating TV's since 2006 and still learn new things/ improve my understanding often.

I would also say that some of the tools that are being peddled to 'beginners', should be doing a better job of actually catering to those, with little knowledge and/ or experience. CalMAN is very bad at this and the vendor has no excuse as it's eons old now. That aside, having used HCFR, Lightspace and CalMAN, for the Panasonic's, CalMAN is by far the easiest to use with the most useful interfaces and metrics.

Paul
 

youngsyp

Distinguished Member
I've noticed you are using CalMan Home as well (not the full edition), I will go the manual route so follow your steps. I used the AutoCal as I got the set this weekend and wanted to have a quick "close to" calibration, but will spend quite a lot of time on the manual side of things during the next few days and post my results back.

L
If the TV is new, it has a period of 'bedding in'. So take that into account and if you want accuracy, look to re-calibrate after 300 hours or so.

I should make it clear that I wasn't picking at your efforts. It's great that you're having a go and what you're doing is a great way of learning. Just be mindful that there is a lot to consider when calibration any display but OLEDs bring their own challenges and getting good results takes time.

If you can perform an AutoCal of just the White Balance and luminance levels, you'll get much closer in a shorter space of time, making your manual tweaks much easier. I wouldn't trust AutoCal to set any other picture control setting accurately though. It just doesn't.

Paul
 

youngsyp

Distinguished Member
Would love to have some detailed guide on this if you wanna share.

Thank you!
L
It's actually pretty straight forwards and will apply to SDR, HDR and HLG as what you're actually adjusting for all of these, isn't what either the TV controls portray, nor what the out the box generated patterns put up.

Assuming you have a Windows PC.

1. Navigate to C: > Program Files (x86) > Portrait Displays > Calman 5 Home.
2. Look for the CalMAN Levels Editor.exe and double click it to run it.
3. When the CalMAN Levels Editor dialogue box is shown, click 'Add New Level Family'.
4. Give it an appropriate title. I use 'Panasonic OLED SDR', 'Panasonic OLED HDR10', 'Panasonic OLED HLG' respectively.
5. Leave the 'View level as:' option at 'Percentage'.
6. In the box at the bottom of the dialogue box, add the following (copy the below exactly, being mindful of commas and spaces):

SDR: 0, 2.4, 4.7, 9.4, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70.2, 80, 90.6, 100
HDR10: 6.3, 12, 19.6, 30.6, 38, 44, 48.2, 53, 58.4, 63.5, 68.6, 72.5, 80, 90, 100

You'll not I've added 80, 90, 100 to the HDR10 levels despite not being able to adjust them. This is so the full measurements are taken as the software requires and so the charts render properly.

7. Leave the 'Video and PC Levels' button as is.
8. Click 'Save Changes'.
9. Close the Levels Editor dialogue box.

Once in CalMAN

1. In the Grayscale Multipoint screen, click on the gear icon in the top right hand corner.
2. Under the 'Workflow Basic Options' tab, click on the 'Grayscale Points:' drop down box.
3. Scroll down to the bottom and select the appropriate levels option for the calibration you're performing.

Et voila.

The Grayscale Multipoint screen will now look like the below (80, 90, 100 are off the screen in the HDR screen grab).

Paul
HDR 16 point.PNGSDR 13 point.PNG
 

youngsyp

Distinguished Member
@luisreg81 I've just been through and looked at the AutoCal options. You can perform just a White Balance/ Gamma AutoCal but selecting to do so in the 'Grayscale 2pt' and 'Grayscale Multipoint' screens. For the 'Luminance' screen, adjust the Luminance control on the TV to get your desired peak white light output manually. And you can skip through the 'Colourspace' and 'Dynamic Range' screens as they don't need changing.
Interestingly, the latter is in the completely wrong place in the workflow. Adjusting Brightness and Contrast will affect the whole image and thus should be adjusted before the greyscale and gamma.

Once you're happy with the calibration, in the 'Post-Cal Verify' screen, click the 'Read Series' button and that will perform a suite of measurements so you can compare pre and post calibrations in the 'Side by Side' screen. I should state that you need to do the same in the 'Pre-Cal Measure' screen too.

Happy to help, when/ if you need any.

Paul
 

gadget man

Active Member
I am interested in trying out the auto cal, i am in the UK so do-not want to order from the calman web store.

so just a quick google


hope i am allowed to post the above but is that the meter i need seem to be different models. Not willing to pay much more for a better quality one. I suppose can order the software directly from Calman.

Would i be wasting my time and money doing this myself seem to be many youtube videos on how this is performed.
 
Last edited:

youngsyp

Distinguished Member
I am interested in trying out the auto cal, i am in the UK so do-not want to order from the calman web store.

so just a quick google


hope i am allowed to post the above but is that the meter i need seem to be different models. Not willing to pay much more for a better quality one. I suppose can order the software directly from Calman.

Would i be wasting my time and money doing this myself seem to be many youtube videos on how this is performed.
You'll struggle to get the CalMAN Home for Panasonic from anyone other than Portrait Displays, as I don't believe they let anyone else sell it.

And just the i1 Display Pro will be enough for your needs. There's no need for the Pro Plus version.

Whether you'll be wasting your time and money is entirely down to you and how much time and effort you're willing to invest.

Paul
 

laknaths

Active Member
you should be able to select to perform just a White Balance
When you did your last calibration Paul, did you have to make significant adjustments to the white balance? The GZs are known to push red quite a bit. By reducing red gain/offset were you able to rectify this?
 

gadget man

Active Member
You'll struggle to get the CalMAN Home for Panasonic from anyone other than Portrait Displays, as I don't believe they let anyone else sell it.

And just the i1 Display Pro will be enough for your needs. There's no need for the Pro Plus version.

Whether you'll be wasting your time and money is entirely down to you and how much time and effort you're willing to invest.

Paul
yea will be ordering calman for home through website will be a download anyhow. The i1 display pro looking at the specs does not do HDR.
 

youngsyp

Distinguished Member
When you did your last calibration Paul, did you have to make significant adjustments to the white balance? The GZs are known to push red quite a bit. By reducing red gain/offset were you able to rectify this?
Erm, I make significant adjustments for both HDR and SDR yes but, that's because I'm OBSESSED with the last ounce of accuracy. :D
In all seriousness, I make a lot of adjustments but a lot of those might be taken out again as I get closer using the other controls. The calibration controls aren't perfect and adjustment of some can affect others. I'm also referring to both the white balance RGB and luminance here too, as I usually make more adjustments with the latter, to nail gamma response.
I would say the TV doesn't need huge adjustments to hit the reference though.

To be a bit more specific, on all calibrations I take out around 5 clicks of red Gain from the 2pt White Balance to start with and this has a large impact on how many further adjustments I make.

All the GZ models I've seen measured push red, and increasingly so as the stimulus level increases. So it's a good bet that reducing red Gain on any of the examples out there, will bring improved accuracy. How much reduction is impossible to say though. I'd start with 2 clicks and live with it for a week and assess whether your eyes/ brain are telling you it now looks more life like.

I've (blindly) taken 5 clicks out of my Dolby Vision settings, to match what I did with the (measured) HDR10 settings. Both HDR10 and DoVi use the same white point (as does SDR) so I figure I'm closer until I can properly calibrate DoVi. It certainly looks better to my eyes now.

Paul
 
Last edited:

youngsyp

Distinguished Member
yea will be ordering calman for home through website will be a download anyhow. The i1 display pro looking at the specs does not do HDR.
Yes it does.

I believe the only real 'difference' between the Pro and Pro Plus is that the Pro Plus is certified to 2000 nits, whereas the Pro is 'only' certified to 1000nits. And to be clear, that doesn't mean the Pro can't measure up to and beyond 2000nits, just that you don't 'have' a certification of how accurate it is at that level. A point of note here is I don't believe they can actually do anything to alter how accurate either the Pro nor Pro Plus are as that would require a correction matrix. ;)

Paul
 

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