Panasonic G10 Black Level Problems Plasma cd/m2

rliver73

Novice Member
Hi All,

OK straight to the point. We've all chosen the Panasonic G10 for it's excellent black levels reported in the many positive reviews that these TVs have received.

Unfortunately, I'm just not getting a consistent message on the black levels that other people have experienced. Pay attention to the units of Y; 1.00 cd/m2 is 3.43 fL.

hdtvtext.co.uk reported Y at 0IRE 0.03 cd/m2 (0.009 ftL)
Panasonic TX-P42G10 / TX-P42G10B Review

AVForums.com reported Y at 0IRE 0.033fL (0.11 cd/m2)
Panasonic TX-P42G10 Review at AVForums.com
I've attached the Measurements for reference.

I calibrated my G10 (attached), and my Y at 0IRE is 0.023 fL (0.08 cd/m2). No matter what I do (dropping both brightness and contrast to zero I still measure 0.07-0.08 cd/m2; nothing less. Done under Cinema/ Warm.

AVSForums.com report Y in the 0.008-0.010 fL range (0.028 - 0.034 cd/m2).
Of greater worry is that people are experiencing a doubling of their black level at a certain number of operating hours.
G10 black levels have seemingly doubled over night? - AVS Forum

What are other people actually measuring (not quoting others folks figures)?

Other thoughts?

Cheers, Richard
 

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tele1962

Distinguished Member
Hi All,

OK straight to the point. We've all chosen the Panasonic G10 for it's excellent black levels reported in the many positive reviews that these TVs have received.

Unfortunately, I'm just not getting a consistent message on the black levels that other people have experienced. Pay attention to the units of Y; 1.00 cd/m2 is 3.43 fL.

hdtvtext.co.uk reported Y at 0IRE 0.03 cd/m2 (0.009 ftL)
Panasonic TX-P42G10 / TX-P42G10B Review

AVForums.com reported Y at 0IRE 0.033fL (0.11 cd/m2)
Panasonic TX-P42G10 Review at AVForums.com
I've attached the Measurements for reference.

I calibrated my G10 (attached), and my Y at 0IRE is 0.023 fL (0.08 cd/m2). No matter what I do (dropping both brightness and contrast to zero I still measure 0.07-0.08 cd/m2; nothing less. Done under Cinema/ Warm.

AVSForums.com report Y in the 0.008-0.010 fL range (0.028 - 0.034 cd/m2).
Of greater worry is that people are experiencing a doubling of their black level at a certain number of operating hours.
G10 black levels have seemingly doubled over night? - AVS Forum

What are other people actually measuring (not quoting others folks figures)?

Other thoughts?

Cheers, Richard

Try posting here also.

ISF Calibration - AVForums.com

The last thread you quoted i think the information was from an American site and i have not seen any reports of this problem here.
 
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Piers

Active Member
What are other people actually measuring (not quoting others folks figures)?

rliver,

What equipment are you using to measure luminance at 0 IRE?

I have an OTC1000 (a.k.a. X-Rite Hubble) and whilst I have confidence in its readings at low light levels I would doubt that I would get a repeatable luminance value from many displays at 0 IRE input.
 

S Bibby

Active Member
Hi,
Unfortunately, I'm just not getting a consistent message on the black levels that other people have experienced. Pay attention to the units of Y; 1.00 cd/m2 is 3.43 fL.

I think the Black level varies depending on light output (more often the case with LCD TVs). This is usually called the APL and it can also be impacted by settings like Dynamic Contrast.

The Panasonic at 0.03 would probably be at a total output of less than 100 cd. I'm not sure but the figures I have are around 0.05. I would imagine this depends on the environment it is measured in.
 
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rliver73

Novice Member
rliver,

What equipment are you using to measure luminance at 0 IRE?

I have an OTC1000 (a.k.a. X-Rite Hubble) and whilst I have confidence in its readings at low light levels I would doubt that I would get a repeatable luminance value from many displays at 0 IRE input.
I've got an X-Rite EyeOne and use Color HCFR software . I've used it before and have taken readings down to 0.03-0.04 cd/m2; a trusty Sony Trinitron and their KDL-40W5500 LCD.

Honestly, I be happy for someone who "really" knows what they're talking about to tell me to chill out stop worrying about the plasma and enjoy it; damn being an engineer.
 

S Bibby

Active Member
Hi Rliver,
I've got an X-Rite EyeOne and use Color HCFR software . I've used it before and have taken readings down to 0.03-0.04 cd/m2; a trusty Sony Trinitron and their KDL-40W5500 LCD.

Does that include Dynamic Contrast? It might be difficult to tell whether this is on or not.
 
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ertoil

Active Member
Blacks are better on plasmas with Daylight (indirect of course)

and Yes the cheap G10 after some hours of use slow down black levels
to 0.06-0.08 cd/m2
 

Toadus

Well-known Member
I have a G15, it's only a week old. Disappointing black levels. In fact, my LCD has better / wetter looking black bars when watching Blu-rays compared to the G15 plasma. Weird...
 

astonbilla

Active Member
i swapped a few G10s for different reasons and black levels varied vastly on some of them!
 

hodg100

Distinguished Member
I have a G15, it's only a week old. Disappointing black levels. In fact, my LCD has better / wetter looking black bars when watching Blu-rays compared to the G15 plasma. Weird...

I suppose you can ask Gordon to measure them at least, just out of interest...:)
 

Jim Di Griz

Distinguished Member
Black levels on mine were very good to start with (back in May) and seemed to improve if anything over the first month.

Still look as great now as they have ever done to me.
 

S Bibby

Active Member
Honestly, I be happy for someone who "really" knows what they're talking about to tell me to chill out stop worrying about the plasma and enjoy it; damn being an engineer.

I think that's the point really, if you're happy with the set then don't get yourself worried about minor issues and nits. You cannot see that many differences between LCD or Plasma TVs nowadays, especially with quality material.

I think the most obvious point people seem to miss is that SD quality is never going to be much good. Picture noise is always present on my set to some extent but I wouldn't change it.
 
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ertoil

Active Member
I think that's the point really, if you're happy with the set then don't get yourself worried about minor issues and nits. You cannot see that many differences between LCD or Plasma TVs nowadays, especially with quality material.

I think the most obvious point people seem to miss is that SD quality is never going to be much good. Picture noise is always present on my set to some extent but I wouldn't change it.

That is right ..the G10 with SD (576i) is really bad and blacks levels are poor
,with 1080p and PS3 gaming they really improve..but buy a V10 honestly !!
 

tele1962

Distinguished Member
That is right ..the G10 with SD (576i) is really bad and blacks levels are poor
,with 1080p and PS3 gaming they really improve..but buy a V10 honestly !!

Where did you get your info mate?

The G10 with SD is very,very good and black levels are excellent and the same if not slightly better than the V10.:smashin:
 
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panman40

Distinguished Member
Where did you get your info mate?

The G10 with SD is very,very good and black levels are excellent and the same if not slightly better than the V10.:smashin:

Blimey Barry, i wonder if there are anymore suprises for me round the corner regarding the G10 :eek::rotfl:. all going along nicely then this drop in black levels pops up !!
 

tele1962

Distinguished Member
Blimey Barry, i wonder if there are anymore suprises for me round the corner regarding the G10 :eek::rotfl:. all going along nicely then this drop in black levels pops up !!

Wow, this guy realy knows what he's talking about :eek: i didn't realise the black levels were that bad.;):rotfl::rotfl:
 

Toadus

Well-known Member
I suppose you can ask Gordon to measure them at least, just out of interest...:)

Gordon is calibrating my TV on Monday, next week. He's given me strict instructions not to mention things about it on here, as he doesn't want any arguments. :rotfl: So I'm going to have to keep my mouth shut.
 

hodg100

Distinguished Member
Gordon is calibrating my TV on Monday, next week. He's given me strict instructions not to mention things about it on here, as he doesn't want any arguments. :rotfl: So I'm going to have to keep my mouth shut.

Just PM me, I'm very good with secrets:D
 

hodg100

Distinguished Member
Where did you get your info mate?

The G10 with SD is very,very good and black levels are excellent and the same if not slightly better than the V10.:smashin:

It looks a s though ertoil is a Eurpoean user, it could well be that UK models are driven slightly differently;)
 

paulr2006

Distinguished Member
Where did you get your info mate?

The G10 with SD is very,very good and black levels are excellent and the same if not slightly better than the V10.:smashin:

Personally Barry i think it depends on individual sets, I have seen a review which says the black level was slightly higher on a G10 & another review which said exactly opposite :facepalm: so either one of the reviewers was wrong or sets vary which I think is the most likely answer :)
 

Jim Di Griz

Distinguished Member
That is right ..the G10 with SD (576i) is really bad and blacks levels are poor
,with 1080p and PS3 gaming they really improve..but buy a V10 honestly !!

:rolleyes: (yet again)

And dont buy an LG obviously like ertoil did presumably...;)

Its on his signature - and the G10 isnt. I wonder if he actually owns a G10? :rolleyes:
 

ertoil

Active Member
Where did you get your info mate?

The G10 with SD is very,very good and black levels are excellent and the same if not slightly better than the V10.:smashin:

i dunno how the G10 can be great in SD failing the interlaced,scaling and 3:2 2.2
cadence tests all the day.....also the G10 cant compete in SD with Hdready plasmas

The V10 beats the G10 in all dptments.....0.03 vs 0.04 cd/m2 in blacks (this
is cause the V10 in THX mode is vastly superior in shadows detail and color
accuracy to G10)

It is not bad, but it is an entry 1080 model
 
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tele1962

Distinguished Member
Personally Barry i think it depends on individual sets, I have seen a review which says the black level was slightly higher on a G10 & another review which said exactly opposite :facepalm: so either one of the reviewers was wrong or sets vary which I think is the most likely answer :)

Yeh i know mate but to say the black levels are realy poor and sd perfomance is realy bad on the G10.:confused:

Is this the EU model we are talking about do you think.:thumbsup:
 

paulr2006

Distinguished Member
Yeh i know mate but to say the black levels are realy poor and sd perfomance is realy bad on the G10.:confused:

Is this the EU model we are talking about do you think.:thumbsup:

I know Barry it does seem very strange? & I would not have though the "E" model would have worse black levels than the UK one :confused: & we both know too well about the long poor SD thread the other day :D:)
 

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