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Panasonic EZ1002 4K OLED TV Review & Comments

Discussion in 'Panasonic TVs Forum' started by Steve Withers, May 21, 2017.


    1. MahaRaja

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      All those 2017 OLEDs have low peak brightness and OLED TVs have to sacrifice some HDR details as a result and he explains how each manufacturer have their own way of tone mapping, to compensate lack of HDR brightness.
       
    2. davejones2

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      In my quest to understand tone mapping etc I've been following a colour grading forum which is quite eye opening with regards to the relevance of this set to the alternative target market looking for "cheap" client grading monitors.

      In their world, it would seem that this set is "significantly" more accurate post-calibration than an equivalent 2017 LG OLED, which I guess is where your money is going. I think post-calibration colour accuracy (and to a lesser extent pre-calibration) tends to end up quite far down the list of many prospective buyers priorities on this forum so the dissent on this set is not hugely surprising given that it inherits many of OLEDs current foibles but costs substantially more.

      Interestingly, it seems that Panasonic have stated in the past that it would probably take the rrp of a set like this up to about $25k to specify manufacturing tolerances restrictive enough to eliminate the current banding problems.

      I'm still interested to see what Dolby Vision with dynamic metadata has to add to the world of OLEDs. My understanding is that, for content graded to 1000 nits on a display with >1000 nits of peak brightness with a correctly tracking PQ EOTF curve (a DX902 for example), then Dolby Vision is not bringing much to the party?

      I can definitely see the potential benefit of DV for OLEDs (and LCD) with less than 1000 nits brightness having a standardised PQ curve with a "best compromise" roll off / clipping if the manufacturer hasn't got this right. But when Panasonic have seemingly nailed an appropriate compromise out of the box anyway, what room for improvement does that leave for DV other than for 4000 nit graded content?

      I presume the answer lies in the "dynamic" side of the metadata but I'm confused as to what the dynamic side of things will achieve. Will it adjust tone mapping of the upper nit ranges "on the fly" so to speak, based on the combination of the displays capabilities and the scene-by-scene grading? If that's the case, how would you avoid a fluctuating luminance of the same bright content from scene-to-scene?

      I presume I've misunderstood but if someone would care to explain...!
       
    3. algu01

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      Great find regarding the banding, thx!

      I agree with you regarding the other reasoning.

      I don't know how DV avoids a fluctuating effect unfortunately.
       
    4. rick19011

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      Because HDR10 is getting updated to support dynamic metadata anyway.
       
    5. golden phoenix

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      i would like to see all the oleds head to head in a massive shootout, i'm convinced they will have to reduce the price of this as why would you buy this one above the other oleds..i quite fancy the Sony if i was buying one this year..@Steve Withers which oled would you choose overall taking everything into account, from the ones you have reviewed Steve?
       
      Last edited: May 24, 2017
    6. BAMozzy

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      Reference quality SDR performance for a start and doesn't need any calibration out of the box. Calibration isn't cheap either. It has a 'decent' soundbar too it seems and better than Sony's A1 - speakers also had to the cost. Whether its as good as the W7 or not, I doubt it but that is more expensive too. It has more HDMI's that offer the full suite of 4k options than Sony too and if you look at the 'MDC' (millions of Distinguishable Colours), that is higher than Sony's A1 - 332 vs 338 - so must have a wider colour gamut. According to a review on a German site, it tone maps content mastered over 4000 nits better as well
       
    7. Goldorak

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      Pana is a beast and a near référence TV indeed. At this price and point in time, very hard to justify this oncost versus Sony and Loewe bild 5-7 (all including dv and Loewe tone mapping similar to pana and usually free calibration on top)

      When this TV shed 2-3k, we talk again
      Little brother could be sweet spot
       
    8. BAMozzy

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      Depends on how important that accuracy is to you, whether or not you would even consider paying for a calibrator and of course how much Content you expect to watch in DV - especially as it should all be available in HDR10 anyway (apart from a demo or two at most). Its not like there is even a DV Bluray Player out yet or discs. DV could come into its own when TVs have 12bit panels and at least 4000nits. I know HDR10 can be mastered at 4000nits too but all DV is mastered at this level so you could get a higher quality master and see that difference but as its tone mapped down to the limitations of the TV, its only major benefit at the moment is eliminating the clipping issue that some TV's have.

      The Loewe Bild 7 is impressive, and although cheaper, is a 2016 TV with only 1 of the HDMI ports (4) accepting a 4:4:4 Chroma. Apparently the noise and macroblocking at 'near-black' is not as good as the 2017 models like the B7 or A1 so probably not as good as the Panasonic either. Game mode is also less impressive too. Chances are, the Loewe will hold its price longer than the Panasonic if history is anything to go by.
       
    9. Lance H

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      "Recommended" only?

      Are we ever going to get a reference OLED?
       
    10. steviedr

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      I don't think we will, the EZ952 I am assuming will score 9 as well, but may get a badge if it's as impressive as the 1002 at the cheaper price.
       
    11. mark800

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      I've had quite a few 'Reference' TVs, including several Kuros and the VT65. They all needed significant calibration, had ABL limitations and various other issues. All the current OLEDs outperform these and need significantly less calibration (if any) to deliver reference colour. Just go and see the TVs in proper conditions. I don't know why some people are so obsessed by a 'reference' badge from a reviewer as they are missing an opportunity to be really happy watching content.

      It's 'Recommended' because it is so expensive compared with something like the A1 ('Highly Recommended') and there's very little difference in performance. The OLEDs would never get 'Reference' because they don't go bright enough and LEDs will never get 'Reference' because of the haloing and narrow viewing angles. It could be a long time until there's something that can do it all and life is too short.
       
    12. raymondo77

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      Probably not for a long time.

      • OLEDs can do absolute black, and are (arguably) best for SDR, but not so great at HDR (relative to the brightest LCD tvs).
      • LCDs are not as good as OLED in terms of contrast, but can go brighter and are (arguably) better with HDR.

      Neither technology is therefore "reference" overall, today.
       
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    13. steelman1991

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      Again!!! - Loewe calibration is not 'free' - that was available ONLY from an individual retailer.
       
    14. steelman1991

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      Believe they are now shipping with 2017 panels.
       
    15. BAMozzy

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      'Contrast' is a calculation based on the brightest peak value divided by the darkest 'black' and as OLEDs have 0.0000nits value for black, that gives a much higher contrast value. What is important to remember though is that the Current LED's can get incredibly close to 'perfect' blacks - the Q8 for example, with local dimming, reaches 0.0001nits. 640nits divided by 0 is still going to give a higher contrast rating than 1200nits divided by 0.0001nits - even 120nits divided by 0 is higher contrast value.

      HDR is now being measured by Colour Volume and 'Millions of Distinguishable Colours' or MDC. In a Hypothetical 'perfect' HDR TV with 10000nits and the full REC2020 colour gamut, A TV would give a 997 MDC value. In tests, the EZ1002 offers around a third of that, 338 compared to Sony's A1 which gives a MDC value of 332 (according to AVForums). That means that because of the Wider Colour Gamut of the Panasonic, it has 6m more distinguishable colours it can display. That's quite impressive but the Sony XE9305 has a MDC value of 441 and the Q8 a value of 442 - over 100m more distinguishable colours.

      From AVForums review of the XE9305
      Dolby have been recommending testing a display's capabilities against the Perceptual Colour Volume which uses the PQ EOTF out to 10,000nits and the Rec. 2020 colour gamut measured using the ICtCp colour graph which takes into account human visual perception. This measurement uses 393 data points and delivers a number expressed in Millions of Distinguishable Colours (MDC).

      Until we can accurately hit that 997 MDC value or even the Value that 4000nits would give so that it is tracking the FULL REC2020 accurately, we will NOT see a reference TV for HDR.

      That of course doesn't account for peoples preference and OLEDs certainly have advantages over LED's in some areas. Viewing angles, no chance of light bleed, haloing etc. Whether you can tell the difference between 0.0000nits and 0.0001nits black level - even next to each other is debatable but knowing that OLEDs have perfect Blacks often gives them the edge in SDR PQ. HDR though is a different matter and that can come down to preference. With my KS8000, I only see occasional Haloing and often only at the credits. Most of the HDR I see is not an issue at all - Gaming rarely has 'black bars' and even the few films I have seen, it wasn't distracting. That being said, it's not 'perfect'. I could however turn the backlight down and still get a brighter overall image than OLEDs and minimise the issues associated with HDR. At the time, I bought the KS8000 because it was a lot cheaper than the B6 OLED, had better near black quality and better tone mapping too. With HDR evolving, its inevitable that Colour Gamuts, Peak Brightness etc will improve over time and we were looking forward to HLG, Dynamic HDR and HDMI 2.1 and its Feature Set so I opted to spend 'less' now and wait a few years until these are improved and/or available. I would have been annoyed if I spent 3K on a TV only to find I had to replace it to get certain features.

      The Panasonic EZ1002 comes as close as possible to being a 'reference' SDR TV. Its a semi-professional display - something none of the other OLEDs offer. Its never going to be a complete reference TV because it's lacking in the HDR area. What it does offer in HDR though, is the 'best' HDR experience out of the box of any HDR TV (so far) and a greater colour volume than the A1. You also know that it will have the benefits associated with OLEDs and none of the issues associated with LEDs. That is what you are paying for and I bet the Professional grade image processing, Absolute Black Filter, Technics tuned 80w 14 speaker soundbar etc all add up. It may not have DV but its looking to be the 'best' and most accurate OLED available.
       
    16. Goldorak

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      Don't get me wrong, pana is a beast but like I said, too expensive for what it is...

      Bild7 is getting a 2017 panel soon and bild5 looks even better/cheaper (2017 panel too)

      I am not a Loewe fan boy but the pana has to compete with Sony and Loewe here which are priced £2000-£2500 cheaper I believe (bild5 and a1 comparison)
       
    17. Goldorak

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      I didn't say that. I just meant that it can usually be discussed :) or a free stand
      At that price, expected as commercial gesture if you are patient
       
    18. fluxo

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      The EZ950 will be priced at the same sort of level as the A1/E7 and may deliver similar performance to the EZ1002 - in the same way that, bar the filter, the ZT and VT Panasonic plasmas were regarded as near identical.

      However, if that's not the case, then it's a trickier selling proposition. The EZ950 needs to offer something over the A1/E7 to convince buyers and if it's not offering superior colour tracking, then it's not especially obvious what the compelling differentiator would be.
       
    19. Goldorak

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      I sound like a broken record but pana should really add dv to reduce the "perceived" differential with competition.
       
    20. Phil Hinton

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      We made the same argument to them back in February, but I don't think it is an easy option to just add it in to existing models. They also didn't see DV as a 'must have'.
       
    21. Goldorak

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      Fully agree with you. Trust me Phil when I say that they will learn it the hard way if they don't wake up. Dv is now software and hardware plus their chip must be more than strong to handle it...

      Let's hope they wake up and the sales figure will do if they don't...
       
    22. steviedr

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      They will add it ... to the FZ1002 & FZ592 !!
       
    23. Goldorak

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      You assuming or you know?
       
    24. SLS72

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      The EZ952 is £3500/£5000, same as the A1 and E7. With Sony and Panasonic's image processing the A1 and EZ952 look like the better choices. The E7 is still a great TV I don't really see a reason to buy one this year. Would be tough to choose between the Sony and Panasonic though.
       
    25. Goldorak

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      Agree but dv will be a big differentiator here...the rest is usual plus or minus for each brand and specs...depends on people taste and preferences
       
    26. steviedr

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      Just saying in jest.

      Sounds like they can't add it this year for whatever reason, if it hurts sales or DV progresses they can always say they did monitor and now feel the time is right to add it.

      What I don't understand is this Hex 2 processor, sounds like a powerful chip, so can't understand how it can't handle DV.
      Assuming the Sony ZD9 doesn't have the DV SoC, so how is it managing ?
       
    27. mark800

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      I'm so frustrated with Panasonic currently, as it would have been a natural evolution for me. I just don't get their TV range. They could provide a killer blow and yet somehow don't. With LEDs, they have the DX902, which is outclassed by the ZD9, albeit being a lot cheaper. Why don't they have a ZD9 beater? Now, with OLED, they make something with brilliant colour accuracy and yet cannot finish the job. There's speculation that Panasonic will hit the US market with their OLEDs and yet so many on the forums there say that they wouldn't buy without Dolby Vision - more so than in the UK forums.
       
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    28. SLS72

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      Overall I think Sony have the advantage with a stunning design and DV support. Though I admit to being something of a Sony fanboy, so maybe I would say that.
       
    29. BAMozzy

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      The EZ1002 is a 'professional' grade OLED compared to the Bild 7 which is comparable in price, its an overall better performance. The EZ952 may well be competing with the A1 or Bild 5 and priced accordingly. The EZ1002 is priced to compete more with the Bild 7 and LG W7 and if you factor in Calibration of these, the price is much more competitive.
       
    30. steviedr

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      More of a Panny fanboy from a screen perspective but always prepared to try others.
      I have to say though, I did want to dislike the Sony with its lean back approach, but it does look nice when you see it for real.
      Will be one of the two (952 or A1) hopefully in a few months for me.
       
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