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Panasonic E-85 help needed

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by cuewoz1, May 28, 2004.

  1. cuewoz1

    cuewoz1
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    I am currently playing with the settings and getting used to this good looking machine.
    I have however got stuck and searching the manual doesn't seem to help me.
    I have got an episode of alias on the hard drive and have succesfully removed the ads and trimmed the start and end.
    I want to transfer it to a DVD-R using flexible rec mode of 1hr 26 mins, so that I can fit another episode on the disc.
    How do you do this?
    I have pressed the dubbing button and it asks if I want to do high speed dubbing, when I press no , the dubbing menu goes off?
    I tries again using a DVD-RAM and pressed yes and then that worked, but it recorded in the XP mode (thats what I was in) and no option to use FR mode.
    Please come and give me an answer because this is the main thing I wanted to do with the E85.
     
  2. kenfowler3966

    kenfowler3966
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    Either wait until you have the next episode, and do both together, or temporarily store the episode on a ram disk with high speed dubbing and transfer back when you have the next episode and again do both together. By definition if you dub in FR mode you fill the media with the source file if it is over 1 hour in length. The other way is to dub at sp and don't finalise the media and then do the second one at fr to fill the remainder of the media. This is risky though as some media must be finalised before removal from the machine or they fail on the next insertion.
     
  3. jesmat2003

    jesmat2003
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    I agree with most of what Ken says. If you have recorded the first programme in XP mode then it's far better to wait until you have all the material you want to place on DVD-R stored on the hard drive and ready to transfer. You can't transfer recordings originally made in XP, SP etc mode to a DVD-R in FR mode in installments. When transferring to disc using the FR mode, the E85 will automatically fill as much of the disc as possible. So if you transfer one 43 minute 'Alias' in FR mode then the E85 will transfer it at XP mode. This will only leave you the equivalent of 17 minutes in XP mode for the second programme.

    Can I make a suggestion for future recordings? If you want to put two episodes of 'Alias' on one DVD-R then you'll probably be much better off doing it this way:

    1. Work out the total length of all the material you'll eventually be transferring to a DVD-R. You say it's 86 minutes. Let's call it 90 minutes to be on the safe side.

    2. Go in to SETUP / DISC / DVD-R REC FOR HIGH SPEED MODE and select "Yes".

    3. When recording the first episode of 'Alias' which you want to transfer to DVD-R, set the timer on the E85 to record for a total of 90 minutes in FR Mode. For example, set the Start Time at 5 minutes before the programme starts and the End Time 90 minutes later.

    4. Either wait until the timer stops recording or stop the recording manually as soon as the programme has finished.

    5. Edit the programme down as you would normally (removing the ads and anything before or after the programme). What you should be left with is your 43 or 45 minute 'Alias'.

    6. Follow exactly the same steps when recording the second 'Alias' you wish to transfer on to the DVD-R. Don't forget - set the timer to record for 90 minutes in the FR mode setting.

    7. What you should be left with is two episodes of 'Alias' that should virtually fill a DVD-R to capacity.

    8. Use the High Speed Dubbing option to transfer the programmes to the DVD-R. The advantages being:

    i) Dubbing is a hell of a lot quicker.
    ii) No need to re-encode the recordings from XP mode to FR mode so the quality of the final recordings placed on the DVD will be much better.
    iii) Whilst the recordings are still on the hard drive you can set the chapter points where YOU want them, and these will be retained after transferring the recordings to the DVD-R.
    iv) You don't have to transfer both programmes at the same time. Transfer one programme one week, and the second the next. Each programme is already the correct size to half fill a DVD-R.

    I've tried this method for archiving television programmes off VHS tapes and it's worked a treat each time. In each case, you just have to remember to set the recording time of each film/programme to the total length of time you'll finally be placing on the DVD-R.
     
  4. jesmat2003

    jesmat2003
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    Try it this way:

    1. Press "Functions" on the remote.
    2. When the menu appears select the "Dubbing" option.
    3. Scroll down to "2" so that "Dubbing Mode" is highlighted.
    4. Press the "Right" arrow key on the remote so that "Recording Mode" is highlighted and then press "Enter".
    5. Use the "Up" and "Down" arrow keys on the remote to highlight "FR" from the list of dubbing options and then press "Enter".

    If you have already recorded the first 'Alias' in XP mode then I suggest keeping this on your hard drive for the time being. Record the second 'Alias' in XP mode and when you are ready to transfer both programmes to DVD-R just follow the above steps.

    Like I said in my previous post, if you know the total time of material you'll be transferring to DVD-R then there are huge advantages in using the timer and recording in FR mode in the first place. But the timer must always be set to the total amount of time you'll be transferring to DVD-R, not just the length of each individual programme.
     
  5. cuewoz1

    cuewoz1
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    Thanks Jesmat2003, thats really sounds usefull.
    One thing though, if 2 programmes are recorded in XP mode to HDD, 43 mins each and 1 DVD-R disc can only hold 1 hour in XP mode how can 2 43 min progs fit?
    I mean if you say it can be done ,I belive you, but this seems weird.

    Also would it work if I wanted to put 3 episodes to a disc, as this is the way I did it before using the E-50. I would use FR for 2 hrs 10mis to record the 1st episode,then next time set for 1 hr 26 mins for the second episode, and set for 45 mins for the last episode.

    THanks
     
  6. kenfowler3966

    kenfowler3966
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    Thats the whole point of FR mode. It takes the programs you want to dub, up to a total of 6 hours and exactly fits them to the media. It does this by reducing the quality until the resulting data file size will fit. However clearly 90 minutes filling a -r is better than 90 minutes recorded at sp leaving room for another 30 minutes of programs. In an ideal world you would dub at xp for best quality, but this would mean splitting the programs, several -r for one film etc, not forgetting the resulting additional media cost and storage issues.

    At the end of the day only you can decide what quality you are prepared to pay for. Personally I find sp acceptable, and fr is nearly as good as sp up to 2 hours 15 mins, then the quality drops sharply. If I am dubbing a 90 min film, I will record to the HDD at xp, edit down and transfer at FR giving better quality than sp, but clearly less than the original at xp.
    As I have a HS2 I don't have high speed dubbing so that simplifies my choice of always recording programs I want to dub at XP and transfering at FR as it has to be done in real time anyway
     
  7. jesmat2003

    jesmat2003
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    Firstly, I just want to clarify the difference between recording in FR Mode and dubbing in FR Mode. These are two different things altogether.

    DUBBING IN FR MODE

    This is when the size of the recording(s) on the hard drive are too big to dub on to a DVD-R. For example, say you have two 43 minute programmes recorded on your hard drive in XP mode. A DVD can only hold 1 hour in XP mode so the programmes will not automatically fit on a DVD-R. In order to transfer them to a DVD-R you should dub them in FR Mode:

    1. Press "Functions" on the remote.
    2. When the menu appears select the "Dubbing" option.
    3. Scroll down to "2" so that "Dubbing Mode" is highlighted.
    4. Press the "Right" arrow key on the remote so that "Recording Mode" is highlighted and then press "Enter".
    5. Use the "Up" and "Down" arrow keys on the remote to highlight "FR" from the list of dubbing options and then press "Enter".

    Your machine will them re-encode both programmes so they fill a DVD-R to its maximum capacity. You can't tell the machine what size to re-encode at. In other words, if you have one 43 minute programme, you can't tell the machine to dub it to a DVD-R using up half the disc space. The E85 will just look at the programmes you want to dub and automatically try to fill the DVD-R to capacity. So if you want to dub two programmes using the FR Mode then you must dub both programmes at the same time. Hope this answers your query.

    RECORDING IN FR MODE

    This is something quite different. When you set the timer to record in FR Mode, the machine will look at the recording time you have set and automatically record the programme at the best bitrate to fill a DVD-R. Here are some examples:

    1. Timer set for 1 hour at FR MODE:
    The machine will record the programme at the same bitrate as in XP recording. The total size of the programme will be approx 4100 Megabites - just enough to fill a DVD-R.

    2. Timer set for 1 hour 15 mins at FR Mode: The E85 will record the programme at a slightly lower bitrate than XP mode, but a much better bitrate than SP mode. The total size of the programme will still be approx 4100 Megabites - just enough to fill a DVD-R.

    3. Timer set for 1 hour 30 mins at FR Mode: The E85 will record the programme at a quality roughly half way between XP mode and SP.The total size of the programme will still be approx 4100 Megabites - just enough to fill a DVD-R.

    In other words, recording in FR will set the correct bitrate from the start - so there's no need to re-encode the programme when dubbing, which is a big advantage. This is why if you know that you want to dub two 43 minute programmes on to a DVD-R then set the timer for 86 minutes for each programme. This will trick the E85 into automatically selecting the correct bitrate for a 43 minute programme that will fill half a DVD-R.


    Yes. Dubbing in FR Mode would re-encode the three programmes to fill to capacity a DVD-R. Obviously picture quality would be noticibly worse than just putting two programmes on to a disc.


    You can't set the E85 this way. If you want to put three 43 minute episodes on to one DVD-R then by far the best method is:

    1. Go in to SETUP / DISC / DVD-R REC FOR HIGH SPEED MODE and select "Yes".

    2. When recording the first programme, set the timer on the E85 to record for a total of 2 hours 10 minutes in FR Mode. For example, set the Start Time at 5 minutes before the programme starts and the End Time 2 hours 10 minutes later.

    3. Either wait until the timer stops recording or stop the recording manually as soon as the programme has finished.

    4. Edit the programme down as you would normally (removing the ads and anything before or after the programme). What you should be left with is your 43 or 44 minute programme on the hard drive.

    5. Follow exactly the same steps when recording the second and third programmes. Don't forget - set the timer to record each programme for 130 minutes in the FR mode setting.

    6. What you should be left with is three programmes, which together should virtually fill a DVD-R to capacity.

    8. Use the High Speed Dubbing option to transfer the programmes to the DVD-R. The advantages being:

    i) Dubbing is a hell of a lot quicker.
    ii) No need to re-encode the recordings from XP mode to FR mode so the quality of the final recordings placed on the DVD will be much better.
    iii) Whilst the recordings are still on the hard drive you can set the chapter points where YOU want them, and these will be retained after transferring the recordings to the DVD-R.
    iv) You don't have to transfer all three programmes at the same time. Transfer one programme one week, and the second the next etc. Each programme is already the correct size to fill one third of a DVD-R.

    Hope this helps.
     
  8. cuewoz1

    cuewoz1
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    Thank you jesmat2003, that is tremendous.
    :thumbsup:
     
  9. cuewoz1

    cuewoz1
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    Hi Jesmat, After trying what you said I am getting stuck.
    When I increase the XP recording time to double the actual prog time for 2 alias eps then edit down to just the episode. I get the same file size as if just recording the actual programme, eg about 2400 MB per episode.
    What is the point incresing the recording time?
     
  10. jesmat2003

    jesmat2003
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    Hi. Are you planning to eventually place two episodes of 'Alias' on one DVD-R? If so then just follow the steps in my first post at the top of this thread.

    You mentioned increasing the "XP" recording time. This could be the cause of the problem. You should be setting the timer to record each episode in "FR" Mode, not "XP" Mode. So if you think that the two episodes of 'Alias' will run to a total of 86 minutes, then you need to set the timer to record each episode in "FR" Mode for a total of 86 minutes (although you can stop the machine after the programme's finished). You may even want to set the timer for 87 or 88 minutes each time you record 'Alias' just to give you a little bit of leaway. It sounds like you may have accidently set the timer to "XP", instead of "FR".

    Don't forget to also change the "DVD-R REC FOR HIGH SPEED MODE" to "Yes" before you start recording.

    If you've accidentally set the timer to record in "XP" Mode instead of "FR" Mode then the easiest thing to do is to just record the next one in "XP" mode so you have the two episodes of Alias on your hard drive in XP mode - then dub them on to a DVD-R - both together, at the same time - using the "DUBBING IN FR MODE" method I described in my last post.

    Let me know how you get on. I'll get this thing sorted out if it kills me. :suicide:
     
  11. cuewoz1

    cuewoz1
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    thanks, yes i did record in XP mode.
    I didn't think I could record to hdd in FR, will try when i get home.
     
  12. IanK

    IanK
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    Not exactly related to this thread, however..................

    On page 16 of the DMRE85 instruction book it states that with DVD-R you can only record in 4:3 Aspect ratio. But with DVD-Ram you can record in 16:9. I'm confused!!

    I'd planned to use DVD-R's to archive movies recorded to the HDD. However as I've got a widescreen TV. I want to record them in 16:9 and not 4:3. Does this mean I've got to use the more expensive DVD-Ram's for this?

    Further notes on page 41 imply that the above restriction applies if you enable DVD-REc for high speed mode.

    Can anyone clarify?

    Thanks,

    Ian
     
  13. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    This has been confusing everybody lately! In summary DVD-RAMs record the widescreen switching signal, DVD-Rs do not. Both will record the anamorphic output of Sky/Freeview etc without problem. Therefore the net effect is for DVD-RAMs your TV will autoswitch to 16:9 mode, for DVD-Rs you'll have to manually do it.
     
  14. IanK

    IanK
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    Thanks for the prompt reply with good news! So basically I can record 16:9 films on DVD-R.

    Cheers,

    Ian
     
  15. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    Yes - you just have to manually 'stretch' it on your TV by selecting the appropriate mode. It's an annoying omission but no great hardship.
     
  16. nialli

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    I've noticed that recordings made onto the HDD from digital widescreen broadcasts don't consistently copy the widescreen flag too. I almost always record in SP mode and on playback the E-85 adopts the settings of the previously viewed programme unless I manually adjust the TV. Odd.
     
  17. marting2

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    Following on from this what therefore is the most efficient / maintaining best quality way to copy films etc. from Sky+ to HDD (for later dubbing to DVD-R)?

    1. For a 2 hour film - will recording it to HDD with the timer set to 1 hour and then dubbing it in high speed mode be better quality than recording it to HDD with the timer set to 2 hours and then dubbing it in the same way?

    2. For a film longer than 2 hours - which is the best way? I have been setting the recording time to HDD to the length of the recorded programme in Sky+ (normally a few minutes padding at both ends is included by Sky+) recording in FR mode, then using partial erase to get rid of the padding, than dubbing to DVD-R in FR mode.

    3. For a film shorter than 2 hours? I have been recording to HDD in the same way as 2. above and than dubbing to DVD-R in high speed mode (SP).
     
  18. apreading

    apreading
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    recording in FR on the HDD and the 're-recording' to FR on the DVD means compressing an already compressed image. Plus if you dubbed to FR and then removed the adverts, you end up with a file smaller than capacity of the DVD so you have compressed more than required and lost more quality than would be ideal. Plus dubbing to DVD in FR of a file which is smaller than the capacity of the disk will not gain you anything - you would be better off doing a high speed file copy to the DVD thus not degrading the image further (but still not using the maximum from the disk).

    Your best way would be to record to HDD in XP (best quality, minimal compression), edit the ads, then dub to DVD in FR.
     
  19. jesmat2003

    jesmat2003
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    If it's a 2 hour film and you set the timer for 1 hour then you will only record half the film. So you should set the timer to record the full two hours in "FR" mode, then high-speed dub it to DVD-R.


    I don't know anything about Sky+. I am assuming it is not possible to remove the padding before transferring the programme to the DVD Recorder. If you can't remove the padding whilst the programme is still on Sky+ then I think you are doing it the right way until the dubbing to DVD-R. You say that you dub to the DVD-R in "FR" mode. But as you recorded it in "FR" mode in the first place then you need to dub to DVD-R in "High Speed Dubbing" mode, not "FR" mode.

    I am also assuming that the amount of padding that you are taking out is not too much. If there's a lot of padding there will come a point that it would be better to record it to the hard drive in "XP" mode and transfer to DVD-R in "FR" mode.


    I'm not sure what you mean by "high speed mode (SP)" as high speed mode just transfers the exact recording - whether it's XP, SP, LP etc. If you record in "FR" mode then you just need to select "High Speed Dub" when transferring to a DVD-R. So if you want to record a film lasting more than 1 hour to the hard drive, I would definitely use the timer to record it to the hard drive in "FR" mode, then dub it to the DVD-R using "High Speed Dubbing".
     
  20. jesmat2003

    jesmat2003
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    Surely that would depend on the amount of padding you had to edit out? If the padding was not too much, wouldn't it be better to record in "FR" mode, edit out the padding then High Speed Dub to DVD? Yes, doing it this way would result in a lower bitrate, but would mean one less encoding. You would also benefit from faster dubbing and it would allow you to choose chapter points. Can anyone give (in minutes per hour) how much padding you would need to remove before recording in "XP" and transferring in "FR" would result in a better picture than recording in "FR" and dubbing at high speed?
     
  21. marting2

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    Thanks. I think I am doing the first stage right then. No you can't remove the padding whilst the programme is still in Sky+. Presumably recording to the HDD in FR mode is effectively at XP quality then? For a 3 hour film what do you set the recording time to from Sky+ to HDD? 3 hours? If so, I presume you would then have to dub to DVD-R in FR mode as in High Speed mode it would be too long to fit on the disc.
     
  22. jesmat2003

    jesmat2003
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    If you record anything over 1 hour in "FR" mode using the timer, the DVD Recorder will record at a bitrate so that the finished recording is equivalent to 1 hour in "XP" mode. So if you record a 3 hour film to the HDD in "FR" mode, then the quality will only be a third as good as a 3 hour film recorded in "XP" mode.

    I think the best recording/dubbing option all depends on the amount of padding. If you want to fill a DVD-R with just one film/TV programme lasting more than 1 hour, which has a lot of padding to edit out then you are probably better to:

    1. Record to the HDD in "XP" mode
    2. Edit out the padding
    3. Dub to the DVD-R in "FR" mode

    If there is minimal padding then to avoid extra encoding you may be better to:

    1. Record to the HDD in "FR" mode using the timer
    2. Edit out the padding
    3. Dub to the DVD-R using High Speed Dubbing

    So if it was a film recorded off the BBC (ie next to no padding) then I would certainly use the second method. If it was a film on Channel 4, for example, broadcast in the middle of the night with short commerical breaks and not much padding then I would still use the second method. But if it was a film recorded off a channel with long commercial breaks and lots of padding to be edited out then the first method is probably better.

    The different methods are basically trading bitrates with the necessity for an extra re-encoding.

    Where is Rasczak? I'd go along with whatever he/she recommends.
     
  23. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    Many thanks for the vote of confidence! But you seem to have a pretty good grasp of things yourself:

    I agree with everything you said. Infact it's precisely what I do. Record onto the HDD using FR if I'm recording from the BBC, or XP and then FR for ITV/Sky.
     
  24. jesmat2003

    jesmat2003
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    I've only had my DVD Recorder a couple of months and was beginning to doubt my own advice. Your confirmation is most reassuring. :)
     
  25. paul.desmond

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    but just to be clear, if you are working with smaller clips (music video, news items etc.), the best quality you can have is record in XP and high-speed dub to DVD-R in XP so that you have a lossless copy...with the only disadvantages being that you have 1 hour max and you may not be able to fill a dvd-r completely this way..

    that is correct, isn't it?

    Paul
     
  26. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    Yes - that is the very highest quality recording you can do as it is at the maximum bitrate allowed by the DVD-Video specification - so the fact it doesn't fill the disk is irrelevant. As you say good for music compilations etc but not very practical for archiving from TV whereby you should follow Jesmat's excellent description of the process.
     

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