Panasonic DP-UB9000 4K UHD Player: Owners Thread

IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
Panasonic UHD players shouldn't pause on layer changes like old DVD players used to..

DVD single or dual layer
Blu-rays: single or dual layer
UHDs dual or triple layer.
Well, something caused that glitch last night when I was watching a DVD; I'm not really digging this player's DVD upscaling thus far, so that may be a problem. As much as I love the build quality of this thing, it may, after all, not be right for me.
 

IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
Never had an layer change freeze up here,on any of the 4K uhd/blu rays i have put though mine,and it been on almost everyday since i got it.

:)
Was talking about DVD freeze on layer change specifically before, but I never experienced a layer change with UHD Blu-rays on the only other player I have experience with, which is a Cambridge CXUHD.
 

simonblue

Distinguished Member
Was talking about DVD freeze on layer change specifically before, but I never experienced a layer change with UHD Blu-rays on the only other player I have experience with, which is a Cambridge CXUHD.

To be honest,it's been a fair while since i played an DVD, if i do i. play my DVD in my Oppo 103D,due to the fact that most are region A,and my Oppo Multi region DVD/Blu ray

:)
 

GadgeyB

Active Member
Believe it or not,but the Oppo 203 was about to get an firmware update,that stopped playback of 4K mkv files,but then then Oppo pulled out of the market.
It's all down to copyright laws.

:)
I play all my MKV 4k movies from a hard drive with no issues apart from having to change audio track.
 

IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
Okay -- so played my first UHD Blu-ray on the UB9000 last night, Aquaman in HDR10, and WOW is all I can say. This disc NEVER looked so lush, rich and almost surreal when I played it on my Cambridge CXUHD. I mean JAW DROPPING.

Here's the thing, though: I kept the HDR Optimizer ON, and instead of reducing the light output somewhat (as I have seen it do in videos and reviews) to tone map the highlights better for my display, the image seemed to get even BRIGHTER -- but in a good way (everything looked sharp as a tack, and elements in the film like lights in a submarine or the neon colors of Atlantis were RIDICULOUSLY stunning).

Shouldn't the HDR Optimizer have SUBDUED the light output of the disc somewhat rather than make things more intense? Would this have anything to do with the "Middle/High Luminance LCD" setting I left the player on for my Samsung NU8000? Is this the correct setting?

I also have some questions about the metadata coming off the discs based on the Panasonic's settings....can anyone please help me with this?
 

goingoingong

Distinguished Member
Okay -- so played my first UHD Blu-ray on the UB9000 last night, Aquaman in HDR10, and WOW is all I can say. This disc NEVER looked so lush, rich and almost surreal when I played it on my Cambridge CXUHD. I mean JAW DROPPING.

Here's the thing, though: I kept the HDR Optimizer ON, and instead of reducing the light output somewhat (as I have seen it do in videos and reviews) to tone map the highlights better for my display, the image seemed to get even BRIGHTER -- but in a good way (everything looked sharp as a tack, and elements in the film like lights in a submarine or the neon colors of Atlantis were RIDICULOUSLY stunning).

Shouldn't the HDR Optimizer have SUBDUED the light output of the disc somewhat rather than make things more intense? Would this have anything to do with the "Middle/High Luminance LCD" setting I left the player on for my Samsung NU8000?
The TV is likely not doing as good a job tone mapping the original picture and trying to fit it all into the brightness range by darkening the picture down. The player is doing a better job and presenting the TV with a picture tone mapped down to 1,000 nits so leaving the TV less work to do.
Is this the correct setting?

I also have some questions about the metadata coming off the discs based on the Panasonic's settings....can anyone please help me with this?
Yes

What questions?
 

IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
The TV is likely not doing as good a job tone mapping the original picture and trying to fit it all into the brightness range by darkening the picture down. The player is doing a better job and presenting the TV with a picture tone mapped down to 1,000 nits so leaving the TV less work to do.

Thanks, Doug; much appreciated.

I don't really understand what's going on here, though; before using the UB9000 with the HDR Optimizer, the picture on this disc never looked "darkened down" in any way (the transfer has an amazing range of intense colors and highlights), but with the Optimizer turned on and using the Panasonic, everything got more intense -- yet I was under the impression that the Optimizer is supposed to subdue the image a bit so highlight extremes don't get blown out and such. Why would everything seem richer and brighter -- but not necessarily clipped, unless I don't know what I'm looking for -- with the Optimizer turned ON?

And is that setting correct for my Samsung NU8000 display -- should it be on "Middle/High Luminance LCD" in the UB9000?

Yes

What questions?

Thanks; I will take readings off the next HDR-encoded disc I play for you to analyze...

In the meantime, could you confirm if my setup settings are correct?
 

IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
Here are my setup menu selections; do these look right for a non-QLED Samsung panel?

HDMI SETTINGS:
Resolution: Auto
(this always selects 2160 for output, which is correct; so I'm okay with this)
4K60p Output: 4K/60p (4:2:0) (the player seems to want to choose this any time I attempt to select 4:4:4; but I don't know if this is the correct setting for my Samsung NU8000)
24p Output: Auto
HDMI (VIDEO) Output: Auto (is this correct if I'm using the dual HDMI outs?)
HDMI (AUDIO) Output: Audio Only (is this correct if I'm using the dual HDMI outs with one feeding my older AVR?)
Dolby Vision: Off (figured this was correct because my display doesn't support DV)
HDR10+: On (figured this was correct because my display does support it)

ADVANCED SETTINGS:
Color Mode: YCbCr (Auto)
(is this correct?)
Deep Color Output: Auto (12-Bit Priority) (is this correct?)
HDR/Color Gamut Option: HDR/BT2020 (Auto) (is this correct?)
SDR/HDR Conversion: Off (is this correct?)
HLG/PQ Conversion: Off (is this correct?)
HDR Display Type: Middle/High Luminance (is this right for my Samsung?)
25p/50p Output: Off (I don't even know what this is for)
HDCP Output: Auto (?)
Contents Type Flag: Auto
Audio Output: On
7.1 Audio Reformatting: Off
(I don't even know if this applies to the digital HDMI out for audio; I only have a 5.1 setup, so I left this off)

The remainder of the settings I think I have a handle on (bitstreaming for all audio codecs, etc.)...
 

goingoingong

Distinguished Member
Here are my setup menu selections; do these look right for a non-QLED Samsung panel?

HDMI SETTINGS:
Resolution: Auto
(this always selects 2160 for output, which is correct; so I'm okay with this)
4K60p Output: 4K/60p (4:2:0) (the player seems to want to choose this any time I attempt to select 4:4:4; but I don't know if this is the correct setting for my Samsung NU8000)
24p Output: Auto
HDMI (VIDEO) Output: Auto (is this correct if I'm using the dual HDMI outs?)
HDMI (AUDIO) Output: Audio Only (is this correct if I'm using the dual HDMI outs with one feeding my older AVR?)
Dolby Vision: Off (figured this was correct because my display doesn't support DV)
HDR10+: On (figured this was correct because my display does support it)

ADVANCED SETTINGS:
Color Mode: YCbCr (Auto)
(is this correct?)
Deep Color Output: Auto (12-Bit Priority) (is this correct?)
HDR/Color Gamut Option: HDR/BT2020 (Auto) (is this correct?)
SDR/HDR Conversion: Off (is this correct?)
HLG/PQ Conversion: Off (is this correct?)
HDR Display Type: Middle/High Luminance (is this right for my Samsung?)
25p/50p Output: Off (I don't even know what this is for)
HDCP Output: Auto (?)
Contents Type Flag: Auto
Audio Output: On
7.1 Audio Reformatting: Off
(I don't even know if this applies to the digital HDMI out for audio; I only have a 5.1 setup, so I left this off)

The remainder of the settings I think I have a handle on (bitstreaming for all audio codecs, etc.)...
All look OK. Your TV display luminance setting is correct for your TV..
 

IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
All look OK. Your TV display luminance setting is correct for your TV..

Thank you...

Can you confirm, though, some of the things I had questions about in the parentheses?
 

IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
Thanks; didn't mean to get under your skin, my friend...

This particular unit seemed very intimidating to me in terms of setup, so I was confused with a lot of the settings (the player I used before this one, the Cambridge CXUHD, was ridiculously simpler to set up and adjust). I just wanted to make sure I had everything right so my display could handle what was coming over correctly.

I still wish you nothing but the best of health in these trying times.
 

goingoingong

Distinguished Member
Thanks; didn't mean to get under your skin, my friend...

This particular unit seemed very intimidating to me in terms of setup, so I was confused with a lot of the settings (the player I used before this one, the Cambridge CXUHD, was ridiculously simpler to set up and adjust). I just wanted to make sure I had everything right so my display could handle what was coming over correctly.
My terse short replies doesn't mean you are getting under my skin, rather I'm time slicing/multi tasking between a lot of stuff at the moment.
I still wish you nothing but the best of health in these trying times.
Thanks, you as well.
 
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IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
My terse short replies doesn't mean you are getting under my skin, rather I'm time slicing/multi tasking between a lot of stuff at the moment.

There was no way for me to know that, so thank you for explaining.

When you have a free moment, I'd appreciate if you could make it a bit clearer for me why the 4K disc looked somewhat brighter with the HDR Optimizer on...it would really mean a lot.

Thanks, you as well.
God Bless.
 

goingoingong

Distinguished Member
I don't really understand what's going on here, though; before using the UB9000 with the HDR Optimizer, the picture on this disc never looked "darkened down" in any way (the transfer has an amazing range of intense colors and highlights), but with the Optimizer turned on and using the Panasonic, everything got more intense -- yet I was under the impression that the Optimizer is supposed to subdue the image a bit so highlight extremes don't get blown out and such. Why would everything seem richer and brighter -- but not necessarily clipped, unless I don't know what I'm looking for -- with the Optimizer turned ON?
When you have a free moment, I'd appreciate if you could make it a bit clearer for me why the 4K disc looked somewhat brighter with the HDR Optimizer on...it would really mean a lot.
Not knowing your edge lit local dimming LCD TV and how it operates to tone map all I can think of is the position with digital photos when you over exposure and are close to clipping, colours become less saturated (washed out) until finally they clip to white.

Perhaps the optimiser by tone mapping down to a nits level your TV can deal with better, moves them away from that near clipping state into something else. Colours become lusher and full bodied rather than wishy washy.

With my Oled I often find it benefical to lower the brightness control a touch (which increases black) to get the colours richer and more intense. Or for finer, more precise, control of this lower the Tone Curve (Black) control by one or two clicks (-1 or -2) in the Panasonic picture adjustment.

But knowing exactly why the optimiser is doing 'something' is surely less important than seeing that it is doing 'something' and that the results of that 'something' are beneficial in producing an improvement to the picture quality. Which in the ends is all that matters.
 

IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
Not knowing your edge lit local dimming LCD TV and how it operates to tone map all I can think of is the position with digital photos when you over exposure and are close to clipping, colours become less saturated (washed out) until finally they clip to white.

Perhaps the optimiser by tone mapping down to a nits level your TV can deal with better, moves them away from that near clipping state into something else. Colours become lusher and full bodied rather than wishy washy.

I suppose that makes sense...

With my Oled I often find it benefical to lower the brightness control a touch (which increases black) to get the colours richer and more intense.

Do you mean adjusting the brightness (black level) in the DISPLAY? If so, I considered doing this with HDR content to mitigate the horrid light bloom and bleed I get with my edge-lit Samsung, but when I attempted it, it didn't really make the letterbox bars any darker, which is what I needed it to do.

What do you mean that by lowering the brightness your blacks are increased -- do you mean deepened?

This gets me into something I was going to ask you in another post, ironically...

Or for finer, more precise, control of this lower the Tone Curve (Black) control by one or two clicks (-1 or -2) in the Panasonic picture adjustment.

Okay -- do you think that by toying with some of the Panasonic's HDR picture adjustments (not my TV's) it may be possible to eradicate some of that horrendous light bloom I experience with HDR on my display? The problem seems to be that because my display goes into HDR mode and ramps up the backlighting to maximum, the contrast to maximum and puts local dimming on the highest setting, it causes blacks to become totally washed out and letterbox bars to light up and bleed due to the edge lit design...is there a setting in the UB9000 that may be able to reduce this? Would it be the Tone Curve setting or something else?

But knowing exactly why the optimiser is doing 'something' is surely less important than seeing that it is doing 'something' and that the results of that 'something' are beneficial in producing an improvement to the picture quality. Which in the ends is all that matters.

I get that, and I totally agree; I am just curious as to why and how all this works, because it's new and fascinating to me. I don't mean to push anyone into anger or frustration with my questions; believe me, that is NOT my intention -- I am genuinely curious and would like to learn more about it. If there's no patience to explain this to me, I understand, accept and still wish nothing but the best to that particular individual.

I don't have any intention on playing with every available parameter on the UB9000 when viewing HDR-encoded discs (or even with DVDs and Blu-rays) save for perhaps noise reduction every now and again -- I plan on keeping the player on the "Normal" picture settings with every slider on the "0" default position. I just wanted to know why I was seeing what I was seeing with the HDR Optimizer, because all the reviews I have read on the UB820 and UB9000 talk about the Optimizer subtly darkening the image -- not making it what appeared to me to be brighter. So I wanted some clarification on that.

Thank you.
 

goingoingong

Distinguished Member
Do you mean adjusting the brightness (black level) in the DISPLAY? If so, I considered doing this with HDR content to mitigate the horrid light bloom and bleed I get with my edge-lit Samsung, but when I attempted it, it didn't really make the letterbox bars any darker, which is what I needed it to do.

What do you mean that by lowering the brightness your blacks are increased -- do you mean deepened?
Remember that Oleds work very differently to a local dimming LCD. The default state of an Oled pixel is off vs on in a LCD. Oled brightness control is more like a black level control. Increase it upwards and the blacks will starting going grey and then the bars will do too. Decrease it and the black is increased so yes deepened.

The actual screen brightness (darker or brighter) is controlled by the Oled Light control which is akin to the backlight control in an LCD.
This gets me into something I was going to ask you in another post, ironically...

Okay -- do you think that by toying with some of the Panasonic's HDR picture adjustments (not my TV's) it may be possible to eradicate some of that horrendous light bloom I experience with HDR on my display? The problem seems to be that because my display goes into HDR mode and ramps up the backlighting to maximum, the contrast to maximum and puts local dimming on the highest setting, it causes blacks to become totally washed out and letterbox bars to light up and bleed due to the edge lit design...is there a setting in the UB9000 that may be able to reduce this? Would it be the Tone Curve setting or something else?
Probably not as the light bloom is part and parcel of edge lit local dimming LCD. It's down to the tech in use. Which is why I went from an edge lit local dimming LCD SDR TV which managed to control the bloom quite well to an Oled TV when I went 4K HDR.

I think the only LCD TVs which stand a chance of doing HDR OK are the full direct backlight local dimming ones like the Samsung Q90R and the Sony ZD9. But even they don't have enough local dimming zones vs the equivalent 8 million ones in an Oled imo.

So all I suggest is you try the Panasonic controls and see the results on your own TV as my experiences with my Oled will be very different and no indication of what you will get. The ones which could affect this are the Dynamic Range Control, Tone Curve (black) control and the System Gamma control. As I've said I don't think they will be able to do much to improve your situation but worth a try to confirm this for yourself.

If you wanted to improve the black levels I suspect you'ld have to drive your TV in SDR mode.
Might be worth you trying the HDR-->SDR BT.2020 setting on the UB9000 (in the HDMI setup) and seeing what the results look like. You would get the benefits of the BT.2020 colour space but loose the HDR (although possibly get better blacks).
 

IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
Remember that Oleds work very differently to a local dimming LCD. The default state of an Oled pixel is off vs on in a LCD. Oled brightness control is more like a black level control. Increase it upwards and the blacks will starting going grey and then the bars will do too. Decrease it and the black is increased so yes deepened.

Yes, I understand the differences -- but "Brightness" on ANY TV (outside of a Sony, which now calls their black control Black Level, which makes more sense) controls the black level (it does on my Samsung, too).

Sony recently labeled their backlight controls "Brightness" so many people are confused...

The actual screen brightness (darker or brighter) is controlled by the Oled Light control which is akin to the backlight control in an LCD.

Yes, I'm aware. :)

Probably not as the light bloom is part and parcel of edge lit local dimming LCD. It's down to the tech in use. Which is why I went from an edge lit local dimming LCD SDR TV which managed to control the bloom quite well to an Oled TV when I went 4K HDR.

I think the only LCD TVs which stand a chance of doing HDR OK are the full direct backlight local dimming ones like the Samsung Q90R and the Sony ZD9. But even they don't have enough local dimming zones vs the equivalent 8 million ones in an Oled imo.

Yeah, I know I gotta eventually move to an OLED for pitch-black blacks in a dark room...

So all I suggest is you try the Panasonic controls and see the results on your own TV as my experiences with my Oled will be very different and no indication of what you will get.

I understand this; I just wanted something to try, which you get to here:

The ones which could affect this are the Dynamic Range Control, Tone Curve (black) control and the System Gamma control. As I've said I don't think they will be able to do much to improve your situation but worth a try to confirm this for yourself.

Thank you.

If you wanted to improve the black levels I suspect you'ld have to drive your TV in SDR mode.
Might be worth you trying the HDR-->SDR BT.2020 setting on the UB9000 (in the HDMI setup) and seeing what the results look like. You would get the benefits of the BT.2020 colour space but loose the HDR (although possibly get better blacks).
Someone on another forum suggested this to me, as well; but what would be the point of buying 4K Blu-rays with HDR if I'm going to strip them of the high dynamic range? I know my blacks are taking a beating with this TV, but this doesn't seem to be the right way around it IMO...
 

goingoingong

Distinguished Member
Someone on another forum suggested this to me, as well; but what would be the point of buying 4K Blu-rays with HDR if I'm going to strip them of the high dynamic range? I know my blacks are taking a beating with this TV, but this doesn't seem to be the right way around it IMO...
Because HDR is just one part of 4K UHD. With the HDR-->SDR BT.2020 you would still get the other two parts: true 4K picture (sometimes) and WCG (the BT.2020). Look at how many reviews note that there is only a little HDR enhancement on the UHD they are reviewing. It's the better colour and the detail you get with a 4K DI that can make a bigger difference to the picture than the HDR which can often just look like having the contrast up too high with some discs.

And it's this high HDR contrast which can enhance the grain too much with some UHDs. Bridge over the River Kwai UHD is one I've tried I can think of. In HDR mucho grainy, in HDR-->SDR BT.2020 much less grain but still the better colours and detail vs the blu-ray version. Independence Day UHD is another one.
 
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IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
Because HDR is just one part of 4K UHD. With the HDR-->SDR BT.2020 you would still get the other two parts: true 4K picture (sometimes) and WCG (the BT.2020). Look at how many reviews note that there is only a little HDR enhancement on the UHD they are reviewing. It's the better colour and the detail you get with a 4K DI that can make a bigger difference to the picture than the HDR which can often just look like having the contrast up too high with some discs.

And it's this high HDR contrast which can enhance the grain too much with some UHDs. Bridge over the River Kwai UHD is one I've tried I can think of. In HDR mucho grainy, in HDR-->SDR BT.2020 much less grain but still the better colours and detail vs the blu-ray version. Independence Day UHD is another one.
Thanks for explaining this to me, Doug; let me chew on it and get back to you with questions regarding how to implement the setting and such...

In the meantime, I have some other questions about the 9000's functionality, if you could possibly assist me with them:

My unit seems to dim the screen down after it's been on for awhile -- for example, if I leave the home screen on for a few minutes. Is there a way to disable this? It's almost as if there's an energy saver on (unless this is tied into that idiotic auto-off feature)…

And is there any way to disable the annoying messages that pop up when a Blu-ray is loading, such as the BD-Live warnings telling me that I'm not connected to the internet before the disc loads? This actually makes no sense because I am connected to my wireless network...but when I watched Christine and Couples Retreat last night, I got the pop-up message about BD-Live...

Additionally: Why does that status box in the upper right hand side of the screen (where it shows the disc format you're playing -- DVD, BD-Video, etc.) always indicate "4K on the bottom square, even if you're playing a DVD or Blu-ray? Is this because it's indicating the player is upscaling those formats to 4K?
 

goingoingong

Distinguished Member
Thanks for explaining this to me, Doug; let me chew on it and get back to you with questions regarding how to implement the setting and such...

In the meantime, I have some other questions about the 9000's functionality, if you could possibly assist me with them:

My unit seems to dim the screen down after it's been on for awhile -- for example, if I leave the home screen on for a few minutes. Is there a way to disable this? It's almost as if there's an energy saver on (unless this is tied into that idiotic auto-off feature)…

And is there any way to disable the annoying messages that pop up when a Blu-ray is loading, such as the BD-Live warnings telling me that I'm not connected to the internet before the disc loads? This actually makes no sense because I am connected to my wireless network...but when I watched Christine and Couples Retreat last night, I got the pop-up message about BD-Live...

Additionally: Why does that status box in the upper right hand side of the screen (where it shows the disc format you're playing -- DVD, BD-Video, etc.) always indicate "4K on the bottom square, even if you're playing a DVD or Blu-ray? Is this because it's indicating the player is upscaling those formats to 4K?
1. Try turning off the screen saver. Under System
2. Try turning off BD-Live
3. Yes
 

IntelliVolume

Well-known Member

goingoingong

Distinguished Member
It's off.
It's off.
Are you sure that's what that "4K" logo means?
In that case looks like you'll just have to live with this or return the player.
Yes. It's showing the output resolution as 4K. But 4K resolution means that it has upscaled the blu-rays and DVDs as per your question. Set HDMI output to 1080p resolution etc and the 4K 'logo' is not shown.
 
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