Panasonic DP-UB820EB, DP-UB420EB and DP-UB320EB Owners Thread

Not everyone is of the opinion that the pannasonics are crap ;)

See this excerpt from post #83 on the Spears and Munsil UHD disc thread, written by Stacey Spears himself

"Some sources are better or worse than others.
1. OPPO - Pretty common chroma as it looks like bilinear is used to convert from 4:2:0 to 4:2:2 / 4:4:4.
2. XB1 S/X - Chroma is not great. Internally it converts everything to RGB and then if you turn on YCbCr output, it will convert back just before output. This results in a loss of chroma resolution. Again, we start with 4:2:0, so somehow we end up less than that even though we are still outputting something greater.
3. Panasonic - They do something more than bilinear and there chroma is the best of any player on the market. Has been for years."

I was told that the above talks about chroma algoritems that might no longer be relevant due to new firmware on players. I am also told that the Pannasonic's have such massive ringing on the chroma that it is a joke. Apparently this can be due to algorithms that introduce ringing and other artefacts, whilst (algorithms I assume) others do not and stay more simple. Some reasoning behind this is that chroma is only 25% of the luma resolution on disc, 4:2:0, that does not magically get 4:4:4 without processing, and its impossible to recreate something that was never there.

I appreciate the notes but I have not one clue what any of this means! At this stage I am starting to go numb.

nd didn't notice any difference in picture quality (although it must be mentioned that i never tried comparing the two up close).

This is the thing, I noted a sharper and more detailed image with my UB9000 over my Sony X700 - whether or not it is over sharpened. After what I was told about the Panny's being so poor, I would like to compare side by side with the Sony and or some other players to see if I feel it is too aggressive, though.

That said, I did notice things such as colour definition and tone being what I thought was superior to my X700 and quite awe inspiring, for example Ancient One's (Tilda Swinton) gold garments in Endgame, when Hulk/ Banner is talking to her on the roof top. The richness of the material and colour really stood out.

I think it definately depends on everything else in your chain, especially your display, image size, seating distance visual acuity. I view at 120" 16:9 diagonal at around 3.3 meters distance. I can tell the difference of 4K on a 60" TV, but but I do not start to notice the true benefits of 4K until around 100" 16:9 diagonal, I think around this image size and up is when 4K images really shines.

One major downside to the Xbox was the noise when playing a UHD disc.

I am with you there, will be the same with the XB1X, too from what I read. Yes, I am very sensitive to noise and have very good hearing. So, this is a priority for me, even with my player rear left of MLP, which nulls high frequencies the most.

I will say however, there is always unit variation and I went through a few XB1S to get one that was very good with system/ operational noise - I remember it being absolutely fine for UHD playback, actually. Same with the release PS4 and PS4 Pro, once I landed a good one, it was much nicer to use. It is hard to gauge what my XB1S's noise was like from memory now, especially in comparison to by UB9000, yet alone my X700 and I only had that up till one week ago.

I did a/ b extensively last night with my UB820 and the UB9000 is slightly quieter, but it is just enough to make quiet scenes at the start of a new disc layer/ layer change to be more pleasant viewing. Both have some minor normal varying whine at start of discs layer changes and the 9000 is perhaps slightly worse in this regard depending on where you are orientated to the player.
 
@fallinlight I didn't want to post in the JVC thread as i don't own one but thought i'd share here how i'm using the Panny with my projector for HDR in the hope it helps you. Rather than having two HDR settings (1000 and 4000nit) which is a faff. I calibrated my Epson to display 1000nit content how i like and set the Panny to Medium luminance LCD which leaves all content <1000nits untouched and therefore only kicks in with the discs that are mastered above this threshold. I've also switched the HDR optimiser on. So try one of the 1200nit curves with the Panny set to a 1000nit display and see what you think. Hopefully that should give you that pop back that you seem to be missing at the mo.

Cheers dude! I tried some of Jav's curves (and last night two of his 100 nit curves) and I actually ended up preferring my own curve. My results were as follows:

"Using scenes from Blade Runner (1983) I compared the following configurations with the optimiser on/ off and with both basic (350 nits) and high (500 nits) luminescence projector display settings:

1. UB9000 to SDR.2020 and using the JVC in BT.2020 with 2.4 gamma
2. JVC in HDR with Jav's custom 85 nit curves, UB9000 in BT.2020
3. JVC in HDR, set to the ST.2084 with my own gamma settings, UB9000 in BT.2020

It took a while but in the end I could not discern any difference between 1 and 3. configuration2., using Jav's 85 nit curves was just dimmer with a bit more contrast and slightly more bright detail, but less brightness and pop. I preferred my own gamma settings, and also for Blade Runner 2049 as I was able to gain almost the same amount of bright detail but also have more brightness and a more 3D like image.

In all cases, the optimiser did nothing for Blade Runner 2049".


So, I have the pop back now plus more bright detail. Funny though, I still can not tell a difference in the HDR image between basic (350 nits) and high (500 nits I think) luminescence, so I have just left it on high. I understand however, that I should be using 350 for more colour saturation (at expsense of a less brighter image) and this appears to be the preferred choice for most JVC/ X7900 users.

Yes, I think it was one of Jav's 1200 nit curves that I preferred, to the 4000, which dulled the image too much for my liking.

I will try a higher display luminance setting, though and see what happens :).
 
For the last week or so I've actually been watching my UHDs in SDR BT:2020 as it allows me to stay in low lamp and I don't find myself missing HDR tbh. It's also arguably closer to what the director intended you to see and is worth giving a try.

I see. I tried that but still prefer the HDR image, I can always try it again, though. Do you mean so because the director did not intend for any HDR or because HDR implementation being so inconsistent, it is preferable to not have any HDR at all?
 
I have decided to stick with my usual ethos of: Always remaining open to other's knowledge, advice and experiences, things withstanding, but taking such with a pinch of salt and ultimately trusting in my own experience, whilst at the same time attempt to do so with respect to professional/ scientific facts, when I can understand what is going on. I also will be sure to take note of the merit of when someone highly regarded and knowledgeable or more than one professional speaks about things scientifically and objectionably. Sure, in an ideal world we would all study for ourselves and become as knowledgeable. But in the end I will naturally tend to trust professional sources as I do not have that level of expertise to know better. One chap I love is Vincet Teoh from HDTVTest, he seems to always bring the science, facts and details in a digestible and understandable manner. I also used to love read Art Frierman's projector reviews :).
 
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I see. I tried that but still prefer the HDR image, I can always try it again, though. Do you mean so because the director did not intend for any HDR or because HDR implementation being so inconsistent, it is preferable to not have any HDR at all?
I still (slightly) prefer the HDR image myself but the lower noise of low lamp more than makes up for it in quiet movies imo.

What i meant by closer to what the director intended, is that projectors don't have the light output to do HDR properly (it's an absolute standard remember). So by sticking to SDR with the WCG element, what we're actually watching is what the cinema has been using for years with their DCPs.
It took a while but in the end I could not discern any difference between 1 and 3. configuration2., using Jav's 85 nit curves was just dimmer with a bit more contrast and slightly more bright detail, but less brightness and pop. I preferred my own gamma settings, and also for Blade Runner 2049 as I was able to gain almost the same amount of bright detail but also have more brightness and a more 3D like image.
I believe the issue you had with Jav's curves (I'm just surmising here) is you were using a curve that was developed to show detail up until 1200nits but had the panny set for a display that could only show detail up to 350/500 and so was tonemapping content down to that range believing that anything above 500nits would be discarded (as per the HDR spec). Setting the panny to a 1000nit display with Jav's 1200 curve should confirm/rebuke this theory pretty quickly.

Yes, I think it was one of Jav's 1200 nit curves that I preferred, to the 4000, which dulled the image too much for my liking.
Watching a 1000nit disc with 4000nit tonemapping will result in a very dim image, but watching a 4000nit disc with a 1000nit tonemap will result in blown out highlights which is why you need two settings if your display wont tonemap itself. This is why i went for the Panasonic as it enables me to leave my display mapping to 1000nits without losing too much highlight detail on the 4000nit discs.
 
I still (slightly) prefer the HDR image myself but the lower noise of low lamp more than makes up for it in quiet movies imo.

I see. I hate the high lamp on a JVC but the image pops far more. But black levels are raised, which I find important for a HDR image. So, I ended up leaving my X7900 on low lamp for the longest time. There is not a major increase in brightness with high lamp on a JVC, as compared to most other manufacturer's. Though, there seemed to be a significant bump when I tried recently in 4K HDR. I might try high lamp again, though! It does look stunning.

So by sticking to SDR with the WCG element, what we're actually watching is what the cinema has been using for years with their DCPs.

I see.. I think I still prefer the poorer HDR image! How might I engage SDR + WCG on my X7900 and UB9000? Set the Panny to SDR BT.2020 and then my JVC to what?

I believe the issue you had with Jav's curves (I'm just surmising here) is you were using a curve that was developed to show detail up until 1200nits but had the panny set for a display that could only show detail up to 350/500 and so was tonemapping content down to that range believing that anything above 500nits would be discarded (as per the HDR spec). Setting the panny to a 1000nit display with Jav's 1200 curve should confirm/rebuke this theory pretty quickly.

Awesome! Cannot wait to try this again, then! I am trying to follow the logic, but still have trouble understanding the process and what is occurring within it. But thank you kindly, @494930.
 
I see. I hate the high lamp on a JVC but the image pops far more. But black levels are raised, which I find important for a HDR image. So, I ended up leaving my X7900 on low lamp for the longest time. There is not a major increase in brightness with high lamp on a JVC, as compared to most other manufacturer's. Though, there seemed to be a significant bump when I tried recently in 4K HDR. I might try high lamp again, though! It does look stunning.
If your happy with the light output of the JVC in low lamp then stick with that. In fact having just checked my files, the Epson I'm using has more contrast in low lamp than high which is probably why I'm leaning toward SDR 2020 using low lamp. If I could get away with low lamp HDR then that's what I would prefer.
I see.. I think I still prefer the poorer HDR image!
It's not poorer if you prefer it! :lesson:
How might I engage SDR + WCG on my X7900 and UB9000? Set the Panny to SDR BT.2020 and then my JVC to what?
Your setting "1. UB9000 to SDR.2020 and using the JVC in BT.2020 with 2.4 gamma" looks to be the correct setting in this regard. results would just then depend on how accurate the JVC is in this setting. Then it's just preference as to which mode you prefer.
Awesome! Cannot wait to try this again, then! I am trying to follow the logic, but still have trouble understanding the process and what is occurring within it. But thank you kindly, @494930.
Following the HDR (ST.2084) spec as intended, a display should strictly follow the EOTF up until its max luminance and clip everything above that. So for a TV with a maximum brightness of 500 nits - Everything above 500nits is hard clipped. Most displays wisely follow the recommendations of BT.2390 and apply some light tonemapping at the top end to avoid this hard clip. With a display that has an extreme tonemap (especially apparent on projectors) to show much more detail than it's max luminance would suggest (1200nit detail on a c.85nit capable display in your case) then your display is in fact behaving as though it were a 1200 nit display and not the c.85 that it actually is. For this reason the Panasonics tonemapping needs to be told that it's outputting to a display that's capable of 1000nits. Hope that explains it a bit better, and was easy enough to follow as I can barely read this new font on the forum.
 
It's not poorer if you prefer it! :lesson:

Absolutely, let me say then, the non-reference HDR image, then.

Your setting "1. UB9000 to SDR.2020 and using the JVC in BT.2020 with 2.4 gamma" looks to be the correct setting in this regard. results would just then depend on how accurate the JVC is in this setting. Then it's just preference as to which mode you prefer.

But I tied this many times, as quick as I could (I know side by side would allow me to know for sure), in comparison to JVC and Panny set to BT.2020, and with Jav's 1200 custom curve, the image looked identical. So I just leave my JVC on HDR mode with the Panny on HDR BT.2020.

Hope that explains it a bit better, and was easy enough to follow as I can barely read this new font on the forum.

You are not the only one, I expressed my opinion about the new style on the X7900 owner's thread along with another JVC owner. Before this style change AVForums was hands down my favourite website to use and the best forum in terms of style and layout I had ever used. I think it made AVS look very dated and bad.

I kind of follow, thank you kindly. So, for more pop I want to trick my display into thinking it is outputting to 1000 nits (by changing the display setting in the Panny) and apply a custom HDR gamma curve that is mapped to...? ugh I lost it again. I will PM you!
 
Without going into detail, someone told me how inaccurate and poor the Panasonic is compared to other players such as the Xbox One S, Oppo and Cambridge and Pioneer.
Oh dear!
Without going into any detail, the person who told you that is speaking out of an orifice that isn't their mouth. To state that the Xbone S does a better job just further illustrates how wrong they are. It's very well known that the Xbone S is not the best choice for UHD BD playback.

Ignore the misinformation your were given, the Panasonic UHD BD players are class leading for bit perfect accuracy, and pretty much always have been.

Paul
 
@cezarL, good morning, sorry, what does what not mean?

I installed Kodi last night and tried installing madVR but the execution application file did nothing. It looks far too complicated for me, but may try it again tonight/ tomorrow.
I guess I read your previous post as using MadVR would mean losing tonemapping, therefore my reply "it doesn't mean that".
Um... I use MPC not Kodi, but you should still be able to access MadVR's control panel independently. There's an executable in its folder called madHcCtrl - it places an icon in the system tray from which you can launch the control panel and configure it to your liking. There's a good guide to MadVR options on the Kodi forums...
 
Oh dear!
Without going into any detail, the person who told you that is speaking out of an orifice that isn't their mouth. To state that the Xbone S does a better job just further illustrates how wrong they are. It's very well known that the Xbone S is not the best choice for UHD BD playback.

Ignore the misinformation your were given, the Panasonic UHD BD players are class leading for bit perfect accuracy, and pretty much always have been.

Paul

You are the third person on here to reassure me, kind thanks. I certainly now feel it is after some other's have chimed in, one with a professional and scientific point of reference to tell me otherwise. I have now concluded to continue following my ethos, which is to come at things from my own experience, take what is said with a pinch of salt and adapt what is useful to my own system and needs, whilst seeking out professional, factual and objective judgements about AV. Oh, and enjoy what I love.

I still remember the boost in colour definition and tone, image detail and sharpness I initially saw, when I first put in Avengers Infinity War. Then, after what I was told about the Panny being, basically crap, I was thinking for most of today, 'yeah, it is over sharp perhaps'? and 'what the f, I am extremely shocked and confused'. I feel much better now and I have a clear conscience! I look forward to enjoying my next film on my UB9000. Predator 4K was gorgeous and I was really impressed by the black detail, no trouble at all watching it on my JVC X7900 in low lamp, 120" 16:9 diagonal, in my non-dedicated room. Watched Escape from New York 4K before. Next I think will be Alien :). I will still give madVR another crack I think.
 
Um... I use MPC not Kodi, but you should still be able to access MadVR's control panel independently. There's an executable in its folder called madHcCtrl - it places an icon in the system tray from which you can launch the control panel and configure it to your liking. There's a good guide to MadVR options on the Kodi forums...

Ah ha! Maybe the exuectuable did work then, I was expecting a pop up window. I did not look at my system tray below. I will try again soon!

Is MPC meant to be a better player? Kodi looked very easy to navigate and very easy on the eye.

Can madVR be used with CyberLink PowerDVD - this was my player of choice for a long time for HD BR, I had ripped most of my library a few years back.

Kind wishes,

fallinlight
 
You are the third person on here to reassure me, kind thanks. I certainly now feel it is after some other's have chimed in, one with a professional and scientific point of reference to tell me otherwise. I have now concluded to continue following my ethos, which is to come at things from my own experience, take what is said with a pinch of salt and adapt what is useful to my own system and needs, whilst seeking out professional, factual and objective judgements about AV. Oh, and enjoy what I love.
Good for you and I'd suggest this to be a very sensible approach. Never take a single opinion as read, as it seems these days, more often than not, that opinion is ilinformed. This being a case in point. :smashin:

Paul
 
I plan to now keep my UB820 instead. The 9000 has a slightly irritating whine with some discs at the start of a disc and during the first few chapters of a layer change. I initially preferred the noise overall, as there is less white noise, but now I am favouring the increased white noise and (almost) no whine of the UB820. I am cursed -a blessing, also - with the hearing of a bat!

A perfect example are quiet scenes or scenes with quiet sections, such as the the start of Blade Runner (1983) or the layer change on Blade Runner 2049. The 820 is just more tolerable... and £600 cheaper! Same image, too!

I will rest easier, too, knowing that if I get madVR to work or build a new PC for it, I did not spend much on the 820 or will keep it as a secondary/ backup player.
 
Managed to get one from the Panasonic Outlet (Ebay) today - woohoo :clap:

Any setup tips etc? Must own 4k disks?

Is it recommended to run dual HDMI outputs (AMP / TV) or single?
 
Managed to get one from the Panasonic Outlet (Ebay) today - woohoo :clap:

Any setup tips etc? Must own 4k disks?

Is it recommended to run dual HDMI outputs (AMP / TV) or single?

There were two refurbs up for a smacking price this morning, I trust you snagged one of those, nice one!

I am not aware of a difference or benefit for running a separate HDMI for audio and did not notice a difference when I tried it with my Sony X700 - but this was not for the purposes of listening based audio tests.

Make sure you first set the Panny to the display luminance setting which matches your display. I would advise leaving any post processing settings such as edge sharpening at zero if you want to preserve the image as close as to mastered and intended.

My current personal main 4K UHD reference/ test discs are Blade Runner 2049, Blade Runner (1983), Mad Max: Fury Road, Avengers Infinity War/ Endgame and Planet Earth II. But you will find that 2049 and Fury Road are cited as reference, along with ones like Sicario and I think Planet Earth II.

Some of my favourite experiences thus far in terms of image and audio have been all of the above, as well as Dawn of the Planet of the Apes, Baby Driver, Hacksaw Ridge, Logan, Deadpool 1 and 2, Avengers Infinity War and Endgame, The Lion King, and most recently Escape from New York and Predator (1987). There are a lot of 4k UHDs out there now - have fun!
 
There were two refurbs up for a smacking price this morning, I trust you snagged one of those, nice one!

I am not aware of a difference or benefit for running a separate HDMI for audio and did not notice a difference when I tried it with my Sony X700 - but this was not for the purposes of listening based audio tests.

Make sure you first set the Panny to the display luminance setting which matches your display. I would advise leaving any post processing settings such as edge sharpening at zero if you want to preserve the image as close as to mastered and intended.

My current personal main 4K UHD reference/ test discs are Blade Runner 2049, Blade Runner (1983), Mad Max: Fury Road, Avengers Infinity War/ Endgame and Planet Earth II. But you will find that 2049 and Fury Road are cited as reference, along with ones like Sicario and I think Planet Earth II.

Some of my favourite experiences thus far in terms of image and audio have been all of the above, as well as Dawn of the Planet of the Apes, Baby Driver, Hacksaw Ridge, Logan, Deadpool 1 and 2, Avengers Infinity War and Endgame, The Lion King, and most recently Escape from New York and Predator (1987). There are a lot of 4k UHDs out there now - have fun!

Yep :thumbsup: I have been watching the Ebay outlet for a few weeks. Glad I managed to snag one in time for the weekend.

Thanks for the pointers - much appreciated.

Assume Amazon is the best place for UHDs?
 
Yep :thumbsup: I have been watching the Ebay outlet for a few weeks. Glad I managed to snag one in time for the weekend.

Thanks for the pointers - much appreciated.

Assume Amazon is the best place for UHDs?
To answer a previous question, there's no need to run separate HDMI cables for video and audio, unless you have no choice (non HDMI 2.0b/ HDCP 2.2 AVR).
You should make sure you use Premium Certified HDMI cables. Not to be confused with an other type with 'premium' included in their title/ description. There's some cheap Monoprice, Premium Certified 3M cables available through Amazon for about £6.99 each.

As for best place to buy UHD BD's, probably the classifieds here or zoom.co.uk, as they always have 10% off vouchers. Amazon is usually not the cheapest place to buy them from.

Paul
 
Yep :thumbsup: I have been watching the Ebay outlet for a few weeks. Glad I managed to snag one in time for the weekend.

Thanks for the pointers - much appreciated.

Assume Amazon is the best place for UHDs?

It depends on your shopping style. I favour Amazon a lot for service, speed and customer service, and lately, promotions and offers. My preference however, is purchasing in person from CeX, where I can build a voucher and use that, plus ensure I inspect the discs in person beforehand if I want, plus ensure I definitely get the slip cover, for applicable titles. Sometimes the Amazon copies are missing their respective slip cover.

Also, if you want to get some of the 3D + 4K discs versions, you often have to import the films from other regions, usually in Europe. It is a shame that they no longer include the 3D disc with 4K releases, at least I have not seen any of late. I am a die hard PAL owner and 3D disc fan (as well as PAL video games collector), so I fork out for the separate 3D copies when I can, as well as the 4K copies.

Have fun.
 
To answer a previous question, there's no need to run separate HDMI cables for video and audio, unless you have no choice (non HDMI 2.0b/ HDCP 2.2 AVR).

@Mogli, just know that there is know that there is no such thing as a 4K HDMI lead, or anything else suppliers will tout a HDMI as, it is all simply false and mis-leading marketing techniques to make more money. The currently exists only two standards of HDMI, the slower pre-high speed HDMI standard, and current high-speed HDMI. Anything within the past 10 or so years will ouput 4K HDR, 60 Hz etc etc, so long as you do not need a long run, say around 6 meters or more. That said, my now defunct 10 m high-speed KableDirekt HDMI lead worked fine from my JVCs to my receivers. Of all the dozens of HDMI I have owned in the past 13 or so years, I have only had to discard a few that did not display 4K video properly.
 
You should make sure you use Premium Certified HDMI cables. Not to be confused with an other type with 'premium' included in their title/ description. There's some cheap Monoprice, Premium Certified 3M cables available through Amazon for about £6.99 each.

Dear @Mogli, again, be careful here too. The Premium certification means nothing more than Panasonic slapping the THX certification on their UB9000; it provides the exact same image as the 820. Similar goes for the Dolby certification for Atmos enabled speakers. PSB forwent this extra cost in the creation of their great (I found them to be consistently great in my room) Imagine XA modules. The HDMI 'Premium' branding is a 'guarantee' of something that is already guaranteed if you simply purchase any high-speed HDMI lead.

To date, Amazon Basics high-speed HDMI leads have been the best I have tried, and they are the cheapest I have found of late. I am really impressed by their sturdy connection to the inputs/ outputs and their build quality I have found to be top. I try and avoid loose connections when possible, especially ones where the lead sags from the socket, such as my defunct Kabledirect leads. Though, I think part of this may also have to do with the quality and fit of a HDMI input/ output socket, too.
 
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The currently exists only two standards of HDMI, the slower pre-high speed HDMI standard, and current high-speed HDMI.
I think you're addressing the wrong person, for your quotes.

However, the two types of HDMI cable are Premium High Speed HDMI and Premium High Speed HDMI with Ethernet. Not was you state.
Dear @Mogli, again, be careful here too. The Premium certification means nothing more than Panasonic slapping the THX certification on their UB9000
It's a little more than that. Please have a read of this.

It is a 'guarantee' of something that is already guaranteed if you simply purchase any high-speed HDMI lead.
Again, please refer to the page I've linked.

Paul
 
I think you're addressing the wrong person, for your quotes.

However, the two types of HDMI cable are Premium High Speed HDMI and Premium High Speed HDMI with Ethernet. Not was you state.
It's a little more than that. Please have a read of this.

Again, please refer to the page I've linked.

Paul

I read that a few days ago. It does not change anything about what a high-speed HDMI lead is, which contains everything you already need to transmit a 4K signal with all the current standards. Thus, I believe it is just another money making marketing tool.

There is huge misconception around HDMI still. It is extremely simple, as far as I am aware, there exists only high speed HDMI leads and older HDMI leads that are not high speed. I understand that the only exception perhaps, is when you need longer HDMI runs between your equipment, and would need to opt for fibre HDMI leads, over copper. But I am not 100% positive about the ins and outs of that and your experience may vary, as my 10 m Kabledirekt lead worked fine from my JVCs to my receivers.

I used to be very confused and recently got hung up and stressed for a couple of days when I was searching and researching all day long for 'new' or 'better HDMI leads to try and fix a problem (that turned out to be a faulty pressed UHD disc). Then I learned what I think is true about HDMI leads - I am no expert - but the above is what I believe. I got into things like is it 2.0 or 1.4b or 1.4a and 60 Hz this and that. I think it is best to simply separate it into what exists for HDMI leads, which I understand simply as either high-speed or not.
 
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