Panasonic DP-UB820EB, DP-UB420EB and DP-UB320EB Owners Thread

doug56hl

Distinguished Member
I know I’ve asked before but didn’t get a response, when will Panasonic be replacing the ub820 with a new model ?.
Now seen this over at blu-ray.com "Just confirmed no successor to the UB9000 or UB820 will be announced at CES. The UB9000 and UB820 will continue on through 2020-21."

Why are you looking for a replacement model? Or perhaps more to the pont, what are you looking for in a replacement model?
 
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panman40

Distinguished Member
Now seen this over at blu-ray.com "Just confirmed no successor to the UB9000 or UB820 will be announced at CES. The UB9000 and UB820 will continue on through 2020-21."

Why are you looking for a replacement model? Or perhaps more to the pont, what are you looking for in a replacement model?
I was thinking of stockpiling another 4K/3D player for down the line in case production stops and would of waited until a new model came out.
 

doug56hl

Distinguished Member
I was thinking of stockpiling another 4K/3D player for down the line in case production stops and would of waited until a new model came out.
You've already got two if your equipment list is correct. How many do you need?...:)
Although having said that I've got four 4K/3D players plus three or more 3D blu-ray players.
It's not the players that are the problem but 3D displays to show them on...:(
 

panman40

Distinguished Member
You've already got two if your equipment list is correct. How many do you need?...:)
Although having said that I've got four 4K/3D players plus three or more 3D blu-ray players.
It's not the players that are the problem but 3D displays to show them on...:(
Sadly that’s true, I have my trusty (touching wood) Sony TV that is 3D. Projectors still have 3D and that’s my method for viewing right now. I have a feeling 3D will return to TVs in the not to distant future.

I have 5 3D capable players but the ub700 could go and in place another 820 with the extra projector capabilities might take its place. I would like a ub9000 but the cost is not acceptable just now.
 

fallinlight

Well-known Member
I would like a ub9000 but the cost is not acceptable just now.
Unless you plan on using the UB9000's 350 nit mode (though Panny, Kris Deering or someone else said 350 and 500 nits modes are the same, essentially, so not entirely sure) with your X7900, which it was specifically designed to be used with, then I see no need to purchase one. I had a UB9000 and returned it. I discerned no difference in the image whatsoever, not surprising, because I think even Panasonic said they are both exactly the same image wise. I forget if I tested closely 9000's 350 VS 500 nits from the 820, again I do not recall perceiving a difference, and I tried various custom curves.

As it stands, doing SDR/ BT.2020. 500 nits, JVC gamma at 2.4, no display tone mapping/ only Panny mapping the HDR PQ, HDR optimiser off, is my preferred HDR display method of choice with the 820. The image is stunning. Not seen better to date..

However, I recently started dabbling in madVR. And I was all for it. The dynamic tone mapping is supposed to be a revelation and no other player can do what madVR can. Though, I could not perceive too much benefit from tonight's brief tests with Blade Runner (1982), plus I need a new and better PC to play back smoothly with DTM engaged. Plays fine without it on. That said, I have no idea what I am doing wit the DTM settings!

And so, I realised that I am unable to output HDR like the Panny can, SDR/ BT.2020, and after asking all the relevant threads, no one has advised me how I can, or if it is possible. Or, at least I cannot get the same level of colour saturation, definition and contrast the Panny gives me. So, rather gutted about that, as I am all for the DTM capabilities and intrigued by all the other superior asepcts of madVR, for example upscaling and all the other HDR algorithms you can create. I also was very excited at the prospect of digitising my film library in Kodi, as I love it's style and layout.

I find it such confusing times, at times, where these things can be so arcane.
 

fallinlight

Well-known Member
Upon recalling to mind, I believe the 350 nit 9000 mode was designed to use the colour filters of the JVCs for wider/ better colour. Otherwise if not using the 350 nits display mode, you are not using the JVC's filter. That is what I remember reading.
 

daz_75

Active Member
Could someone explain the main difference between the 450 and 820 are and if the 820 is really worth £100+ more?
 

Scoutfinch

Novice Member
If for some reason the player was unable to bitstream the sound (again I'm 99% certain that all players can do this without issue) then your AVR would be receiving a PCM signal which could then be upmixed by the Dolby Surround decoder. This will engage the Atmos speakers and attempt to create an Atmos track from the 5/7.1 PCM signal received. This is very good sounding but it is not the same as the actual Atmos track on the disc.

I came from an Xbox to a Panasonic player and can confidently say you wont be disapointed with the change.
Update and Clarifications: I picked up my 420 4K player and have I been experimenting tonight between settings, films and comparisons. On the face of it there are some improvements in picture, when compared to the Xbox i.e. some brighter aspects when flicking b/w standard, cinema and light room etc. But I have still two outstanding picture and audio queries.

1) My main issue is for some reason the TV's Netflix App showing Bladerunner is still sharper and shows much more detail than the 4k disc (see my original post on Sat 24 Sept 2019) i.e. note the jump I was expecting from the Xbox.

Please note, the Netflix Bladerunner version is unusually also not in HDR only 4K (so also lower in quality to the disc it appears) but on a few scenes there is less punch, shadow and detail showing.

I am using the same TV settings via Netflix and HDMI player connection (THX Bright), but of course some of the HDR settings on my FZ802 are slightly different from apps to 4K disc via HDMI are are locked (so it appears you cannot do a 100% same setting comparison). For this reason, the extra money doesn't seem much extra value as streaming seems a better option. As I said, this is after trying the brighter default settings on the player and using the HDR Optimiser giving the player more than an advantage against a streaming low bit source.

I am very confused and/or is it simply the Bladerunner UK disc version is different in some ways to the streaming version? Unfortunately, I also don't have any other 4K discs that are also be streamed on Netflix to trial a further comparison.

2) I do not currently have an AV Atmos amp of any kind (planning to purchase one in due course), but again I notice the inbuilt 420 Netflix app, does not display the Atmos logo like on the Xbox Netflix app (my 4K discs with Atmos also only had True HD and Master HD options). FYI, I tried the following programmes/films: Birdbox, Stranger Things and Our Planet. Obviously I will not get actual Atmos, but for now I was hoping to experience the improved sound like I did with the family Xbox Netflix app.

You helpful provided me with settings, but am I doing something wrong on both of these picture and sound scenarios?

Many thanks.
 
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fallinlight

Well-known Member
Could someone explain the main difference between the 450 and 820 are and if the 820 is really worth £100+ more?
UB450 does not have the HDR Optimiser, which is the major selling feature of the 820 and 9000. The Optimiser is a tone mapping function that essentially recovers some of the dynamic range of the mastered content to fit the luminance capabilities of your display, namely clipped peak bright areas of the image. The player does more of the work, pre-processing a tone map which it then hands over to your display.

Go for the 9000 if you own a JVC projector to take advantage of what I mentioned in my above post. Go for the 820 if you think you might want to try your eyes at a more tonally balanced image that retains more colour fidelity, more specular highlight detail and a more saturated image - whether or not you see or prefer the benefits on display here, is purely subjective. Not sure if the 450 has the display luminance target settings that the 820 and 9000 do. But what these settings do is try and tone map content to a peak brightness of the set target nits (luminance); and you set this according to the capabilities of your display.

I had the 9000, it is the exact same as the 820 minus the 350 low luminance target nits setting designed to be used in conjunction with JVC projectors - I believe specifically the X7900, which I own. Using madVR I now see how this would have benefited me, but I also did not realise how it would still be limited. Regardless, I am not fussed as I am very happy with my 820.

My 820 was also more pleasurable in operation noise (I have very good and sensitive hearing, so this is important to me)/ the 9000 was almost the same minus less white noise, however had an annoying whine in very quiet scenes, only at the start of a layer change of a disc for a few chapters. The 820 also behaves the same with a layer change but it is almost all just white noise. Both were near on par, but the 820 edged it out to me in having just a consistent white noise with almost no to zero audible whine from listening position(s).

If the 9000 did not have the more irritable noise, I may have kept it just for the superb build quality nad looks. Otherwise it was £600 wasted. Both are the exact same in image, ignore the THX certification branding. All have the second generation HCX Cinema Processor.

I had the Sony UB-X700 before my Panny and I noticed the improvement in things like image detail, sharpness, colour definition and fidelity and perhaps motion even, too.

I have since tapped into madVR as my main player, which I see as the be all end all for 4K HDR and video rendering and I am currently building a new PC to maximise it's potential.

I would go for the 820, it is priced well I think and so, yes, I do think it is worth £100 more than the UB450. The UB820 is a great player and I think it will fit most needs. That said, there are some that prefer the image with the Optimiser off, because you gain a brighter image, essentially, or one with more 'pop' (at the expense of clipped bright details and less colour saturation and fidelity). However, it is worth noting that HDR is not just about brightness and many have become accustomed to thinking it is. If you feel you will not acknowledge the benefit or like it, then there you may as well just get the 450 if it is £100 cheaper, as it makes the main selling future of the models up defunct to the user.
 
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Mogli

Active Member
Quick update from me - ub820 arrived on Friday from the Panasonic outlet, tis in perfect condition. On connecting it with my existing (I thought "high speed") cable, the picture was flickering intermittently. I tried a few things but nothing helped.

I had ordered a Amazon basics cable as a precaution - switched it over and it worked perfectly. Spent the weekend watching movies and was absolutely blown away with picture quality. I even thought the sound was a step up from netflix etc, though that might be down to the TV (DX902) and ARC.
 

Mogli

Active Member
Could someone explain the main difference between the 450 and 820 are and if the 820 is really worth £100+ more?
Not sure what the going price for the 450 is - but I would highly recommend checking out the Panasonic outlet on Ebay for the 820, they come up occasionally around £220. They also come with a full year warranty from Panasonic.
 

daz_75

Active Member
I currently have a Sonos beam plugged into the optical port on my oled c8. I see the 450 has an audio HDMI post should I be changing my setup to utilise this?
 

fallinlight

Well-known Member
I currently have a Sonos beam plugged into the optical port on my oled c8. I see the 450 has an audio HDMI post should I be changing my setup to utilise this?
Optical cannot pass the high resolution formats such as TrueHD, so I would suggest using HDMI for audio.
 

494930

Well-known Member
I am using the same TV settings via Netflix and HDMI player connection (THX Bright), but of course some of the HDR settings on my FZ802 are slightly different from apps to 4K disc via HDMI are are locked (so it appears you cannot do a 100% same setting comparison). For this reason, the extra money doesn't seem much extra value as streaming seems a better option. As I said, this is after trying the brighter default settings on the player and using the HDR Optimiser giving the player more than an advantage against a streaming low bit source.
From the AVF review of the FZ802, Phil recommended using the Professional 1 picture mode rather than THX so check to see if you see the same picture issues in this mode. Don't forget to ensure all processing is switched off in both HDR and SDR modes.

If the disc still has less detail than Netflix, try temporarily setting the 420 to output SDR/BT.709 Does the lost detail return?
I do not currently have an AV Atmos amp of any kind (planning to purchase one in due course), but again I notice the inbuilt 420 Netflix app, does not display the Atmos logo like on the Xbox Netflix app (my 4K discs with Atmos also only had True HD and Master HD options)
The Atmos logo wont appear if your not connected to an Atmos capable AVR/Soundbar.
experience the improved sound like I did with the family Xbox Netflix app.
The sound improvement here is likely due to Netflix pushing a slightly higher bitrate with their Atmos content. This higher bitrate is still much lower than what you get with TrueHD on disc.
 

daz_75

Active Member
Optical cannot pass the high resolution formats such as TrueHD, so I would suggest using HDMI for audio.
So what would be the best way to cable this up. I've bought a HDMI splitter. I assume if I plug the beam into the blue ray player the sound will only work when watching boy rays? Sorry I'm a bit of a noob with this stuff
 

fallinlight

Well-known Member
So what would be the best way to cable this up. I've bought a HDMI splitter. I assume if I plug the beam into the blue ray player the sound will only work when watching boy rays? Sorry I'm a bit of a noob with this stuff
I am no expert either! I have no experience with sound bars, sorry. But I would assume you just plug your sound bar into the BR player via HDMI, yes. Someone else on here will surely chime in.

Very best with it, @daz_75,

fallinlight
 

494930

Well-known Member
So what would be the best way to cable this up. I've bought a HDMI splitter. I assume if I plug the beam into the blue ray player the sound will only work when watching boy rays? Sorry I'm a bit of a noob with this stuff
No need for any splitters, connect your Beam with a HDMI cable to the TVs HDMI ARC port and the TV will route the sound from all connected sources to the Sonos.
 

494930

Well-known Member
Thanks mate I still need the splitter as I'll have 5 HDMI devices
Sorry for the less than complete answer earlier, that'll teach me to skim read.

HDMI ARC has the exact same limitations as S/PDIF (2.0 PCM, 5.1 DD+). There's no sound quality benefit to using regular HDMI ARC over an Optical connection, but it does bring some benefits of CEC like being able to use the TV remote to control the sound bar volume. Your likely already achieving this with the LGs magic remote anyway.

Its HDMI eARC (which the Sonos doesn't have) that supports lossless multichannel audio, which the Sonos beam doesn't support. The best signal the beam can accept is 5.1DD or 2.0PCM, both of which can be conveyed by your current optical connection so there's no need to change anything.
 

SeanRH

Novice Member
Hi guys have any of you used the 820 as a CD transport into an amp for 2 channel hifi use?
I am looking to reduce clutter and perhaps feed a Naim Muso with one of these.
 

8abel8

Active Member
Hi all, wondered if anyone can help...

I have a UB420 and when streaming from Netflix (on Ultrahd plan) 4k material comes up as 4K Ultrahd and not HDR. I have tried the player connected to my samsung ks8000 (normally connected to Denon AVR 3500h in passthru mode to a JVC D-ILA x7900) incase it was a display issue and still no HDR. I know I can get HDR via the Netflix App on the Samsung TV and that works fine, so not a network/internet issue or display issue, it seems to be the player. Does anyone have any ideas? Any setting I should be looking at? 4k Blu-rays are fine.

Cheers.

Hi, I wondered if anyone whas the same issue?...

Thanks
 

razy60

Well-known Member
Got to ask do you have "HDMI UHD COLOR" set to on for that input.
Check if HDR bt2020(auto) is set in the player setup.
 
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Scoutfinch

Novice Member
From the AVF review of the FZ802, Phil recommended using the Professional 1 picture mode rather than THX so check to see if you see the same picture issues in this mode. Don't forget to ensure all processing is switched off in both HDR and SDR modes.

If the disc still has less detail than Netflix, try temporarily setting the 420 to output SDR/BT.709 Does the lost detail return?

The Atmos logo wont appear if your not connected to an Atmos capable AVR/Soundbar.

The sound improvement here is likely due to Netflix pushing a slightly higher bitrate with their Atmos content. This higher bitrate is still much lower than what you get with TrueHD on disc.
Many thanks again, you know your stuff :)- I see the picture is much better and closer to the Netflix image using BTE2020. However, a few loose ends still, which are baffling.

I tried the THX mode as it the settings are largely locked so you can try like for like settings, whereas Pro 1 will obviously switch to HDR mode on the 420 and not via the app and therefore be comparing 720 against 2020.

Nonetheless, using your advice and with the Pro 1 mode selected, I did notice a marked improvement:

The impact (especially the flames and close up of the rocks) was very similar in texture and punch to the Netflix TV app using BT2020. However, with HDR included in the disc and not Netflix for some reason, I still couldn't 100% recreate the superior image of Netflix even though the automatic luminance and contrast levels default to 100 at HDR as you will know. Even when I adjusted both Netflix and the 420 settings to the same, Netflix appeared slightly more immersive.

Where I managed to obtain more detail via the TV settings, I lost the punch using the Gamma (playing around b/w 1.9 and 2.3 gamma) and I also ended adjusting the 420 settings to the"Natural Environment" picture setting, whereas with streaming Netflix I do not have to play around too much.

All in all, given the following added factors using the 420, I am surprised I am struggling:

- the disc is better quality.
- includes HDR unlike Netflix.
- is being played using a good player.
- has the optimiser and natural setting built in (which is set quiet bright) and turned on.
- nothwthstanding I also later processed via the FZ802 calibration settings such as gamma.

Why am I struggling to meet the excellent Netflix picture?

Please can you clarify also in light of your suggestion of when it would and would not be appropriate to manually select BT709 given HDR is BT2020 i.e. would have to keep changing this for certain discs and/or depending on the content (on this occasion I found 2020 better)?

In regards to the Atmos logo, that appeared using the Xbox Netflix app but is the 420 not supporting it directly only through an AV/soundbar source as you described?

Useful to know of what settings you have found most superior as defaults.

Cheers
 

494930

Well-known Member
Netflix TV app using BT2020.
Watching 4K SDR from Netflix, your colourspace should be set to Rec.709. If you've got it set to BT.2020 then your colours will be over-saturated and might go some way to explaining why you prefer this image.
Please can you clarify also in light of your suggestion of when it would and would not be appropriate to manually select BT709 given HDR is BT2020 i.e. would have to keep changing this for certain discs and/or depending on the content (on this occasion I found 2020 better)?
I would always suggest you output BT:2020 in HDR or SDR. The recommendation to set it to SDR/709 was purely for diagnostic purposes as this is the same as your getting from Netflix for this title. Temporarily setting SDR/709 will show you if the difference in apparent detail is down to your tvs HDR implementation. Once you've done this, you would then set about rectifying the HDR issue. You may even find that you prefer SDR/2020 output.

I'm a little confused about some of the other comments you posted above. You mentioned adjusting the tvs gamma setting, this should not be possible if your sending it HDR from the 420. Then you say about adjusting the 420s HDR setting (Natural environment) which is only possible when outputting HDR. Can you confirm that you've tried outputting SDR and that you've got the display type set to OLED? Does this look close to the Netflix picture?

It would be worthwhile posting in the owners thread for your TV about this issue as those guys have hands on experience with your model and might know the best settings for your case.
 

Scoutfinch

Novice Member
Watching 4K SDR from Netflix, your colourspace should be set to Rec.709. If you've got it set to BT.2020 then your colours will be over-saturated and might go some way to explaining why you prefer this image.

I would always suggest you output BT:2020 in HDR or SDR. The recommendation to set it to SDR/709 was purely for diagnostic purposes as this is the same as your getting from Netflix for this title. Temporarily setting SDR/709 will show you if the difference in apparent detail is down to your tvs HDR implementation. Once you've done this, you would then set about rectifying the HDR issue. You may even find that you prefer SDR/2020 output.

I'm a little confused about some of the other comments you posted above. You mentioned adjusting the tvs gamma setting, this should not be possible if your sending it HDR from the 420. Then you say about adjusting the 420s HDR setting (Natural environment) which is only possible when outputting HDR. Can you confirm that you've tried outputting SDR and that you've got the display type set to OLED? Does this look close to the Netflix picture?

It would be worthwhile posting in the owners thread for your TV about this issue as those guys have hands on experience with your model and might know the best settings for your case.
Thanks for all the info - yes I can confirm I have the TV Netflix set to Rec 709 and the 420 set to 2020. I finally got close and possibly better than the Netflix picture by adjusting my 420 picture mode to the "Light Environment" mode using the HDR mode (I tried also the SDR mode but obviously did not stick with it). This finally showed the intensity of the blacks and details within the shadows.

I think where I went wrong I was trying to do a like for like Rec 709 comparison, but of course this is not possible with the HDR picture via the disk. At the same time it is very hard to replicate the Netflix picture exactly, but the main plus is some of the darker scenes where you cannot for example see outlines of the heads and hands of the characters are now visible.

The Gamma setting is accessible via my OLED (set at 2.3) in Pro 1 HDR mode as normal via the advanced settings. I also adjusted the 420 picture mode (Natural and now Light Environment setting) to increase detail when HDR was switched on in display type "OLED". May be I have confused you, but I hope this all make sense now?

I see the player was definitely a good purchase because I understand now that the Xbox does not have a BT2020 mode to uplift the picture in the same way as a stand alone player. That is the key point that should be made in reviews and I am surprised top sites like HDTV did not mention it - unless I missed it.

The observation that amazes me is the fact that Netflix is not broadcasting Bladerunner in HDR but the picture is superb so they really have got a high quality stream available.

Any idea on the Netflix Atmos point?
 

fallinlight

Well-known Member
I wonder if the Panny is doing HDR>SDR (SDR/ BT.2020) accurately.. as from my JVC X7900 I always found the colours over saturated. madVr seems to be almost perfect with it's conversion, retaining the natural hues and tones of HDR>HDR. In madVR t just looks like a much brighter, vivid and rich version of an unmolested HDR signal, like the dynamic slider bumped up, but without the side effects, so everything controlled and not blown out. The Panny is fun at first, but I realised how over-saturated it is is i fact, doing HDR>SDR after comparing to madVR's rendering.
 
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