Make your mind up
One minute Optimiser is no benefit "
I'd be surprised if it was anywhere near that level of improvement, if there was any at all"...."
in a double blind test, you'd struggle to tell any difference" and the next it is '
see a benefit' or '
could noticeably improve the PQ" for some TVs.
Ah, too good to hope for. We're back here with a "
pretty much useless" line again
Are you speaking theoretically or from experience of all recent TVs?
With my 2018 LG E8 at least, DTM adjusts both the top end (clipping) and the bottom end (blacks). I don't use it because of this as it produces elevated blacks a lot of the time. DTM (for LG E8 at least) thus can screw up overall near black calibration as a result. Whereas Optimiser only works on the top end reducing clipping and basically leaves the calibration untouched.
I use Optimiser, I don't use the TV's dynamic tone mapping which I find lacking.
You should be able to work that out by yourself. What does Optimiser do? Tone map to reduce clipping. What is improved? overall PQ (you have just referred to that exact same point yourself
'could very well noticeably improve the PQ').
With Sony 4K 35mm film scans the high nits used has a tendency to cause enhanced, more visible HDR grain and produce way too hot contrast. Starship Troopers, Crouching Tiger and others from that time suffer from this. Run them through Optimiser and most/all of that is gone.
I'm trying to state exactly what I said. While on the one hand I think Optimiser is something worth having; on the other hand I think it's worthwhile and fair to point out to potential buyers that HDR Optimiser will do nothing for most TVs falling into the High LCD/Oled/Middle LCD category with the many recent UHDs which are mastered below 1000 nits.
Your 'MaxCLL' figures appear to be Max Luminance numbers rather than MaxCLL (shown as Maximum Light level on the UB820/UB9000 metadata display).
Have you checked the MaxCLL and MaxFall metadata of recent discs? The discs have metadata mostly below, in some cases well below, 1000 nits. Look at the metadata of Bladerunner 2049 UHD for an example of this. MaxCLL: 487 and MaxFALL: 179. Or Tenet UHD MaxCLL 349 and MaxFALL: 86.
Optimiser doesn't do changes*** (it shows both input and output metadata as being the same) at <1000 nits as that is the operating target in its algorithm for Oleds and Middle LCD.
IF MaxCLL >1000 nits, reduce to 1,000 nits; else leave untouched.
(For High LCD display replace 1000 above with 1500, for PJ replace 1000 with 500 or 350 (UB9000)).
*** except to Max Luminance where for this type of disc it will change MaxLum to the highest of MaxCLL or MaxFALL. In the case of Tenet, 4000-->349. However as that 349 is well below 1000 nits which the TV's own tone mapping should be able to deal with I see little potential benefit in that change. Certainly I personally can't see any difference whether Optimiser is on or off for these low nits discs on a TV which can reach 750-800 nits.
I'm not sure if there has been a change in the processing here as I seem to remember when the UB820 first came out the MaxLum being passed untouched where it was 1,000 or changed to 1,000 if at say 4,000, not to a low MaxCLL figure..
Even for PJs and TVs set at the 500 nits display type (PJ/Low LCD) many recent discs will not exceed the Optimiser target nits level. Only at the 350 nits display type level can it be pretty much guaranteed to be doing something with all discs. But that target display level is only available on the UB9000, not on the UB820. And it is the UB820 that is being discussed.
You may argue that, but it's not reflected in what TV manufacturers actually do...
- Do Panasonic TVs have the same controls as a UB820? Dynamic Range Adjust, tone curve (black), tone curve (white), System Gamma? My LG E8 doesn't.
- Do Panasonic TV allow you to change gamma for HDR10? My LG doesn't and it is locked to 2.2
- Do you really want to change a calibrated TV's picture controls and what's more change them on a disc by disc basis? I certainly don't.
- Which brings me onto that after using Calman Autocal on LG most important picture controls are locked anyway (except Colour, Oled Light, Contrast and Brightness). Even gamma is locked for SDR.
- Do Panasonic TVs have the fine granularity for picture adjustment controls that the players offer. Both my LG TVs don't. I'd estimate the player has 3-4 adjustment clicks to 1 click on the TV.
If that were the case the original HCX SOC from the UB700/UB900 could have been used as neither of them have the HDR Optimiser. It wasn't. Instead, presumably on cost grounds to bring the player in at a lower price point, another SOC was used which imo offers a reduced feature set in terms of picture adjustment than the HCX or HCX2 SOCs.
No, you've been over that.
For you maybe it makes no difference as you have a new TV (still using the lumagen with that?). For most others who aren't in that position of having a new TV it can make a difference worth the £100 premium to get it. Better to have a feature and not need it than need the feature and find to get it will require spending twice.
To bring it back to the OP question, I'd rather upgrade from a UB700 to a UB820 (I did) than downgrade to a UB450. The reasons why are covered in what has turned out to be an alarming long post...