Panasonic DMR-EX75/85 upscaling

NickRich

Standard Member
Can any owners of these machines please help a newbie understand the benefits of upscaling using an HD ready LCD TV?

Having recently bought one of these TVs and having seen the impressive demos of High Definition in the shops, I'm attracted to Panasonic's claim that I can play back my DVDs (and TV recordings?) "in beautiful high quality pictures on par with that of High Definition images." Can this really be true? How good is upscaling and does it apply only to DVD playback? The idea of making a normal digital TV recording and then being able to play it back in better quality than live TV must be wishful thinking I expect...??

Thanks.

Nick
 

Gavtech

Administrator
NickRich said:
Having recently bought one of these TVs and having seen the impressive demos of High Definition in the shops, I'm attracted to Panasonic's claim that I can play back my DVDs (and TV recordings?) "in beautiful high quality pictures on par with that of High Definition images." Can this really be true?
Obviously not ... or there'd be no point in going into the whole expense and trouble of creating HDTV.
It's simply hype.
NickRich said:
How good is upscaling and does it apply only to DVD playback? The idea of making a normal digital TV recording and then being able to play it back in better quality than live TV must be wishful thinking I expect...??
Yes it is wishful thinking. Preposterous in fact. It will be entirely personal as to whether you find the fakery subjectively acceptable.
The only test is to try it yourself.

Be aware that the modern screen technologies offer a few advantages but are retrograde in terms of most of the parameters by which one judges quality.. in comparison with CRT's.

You will be paying a great deal more for poorer performance and poorer life and poorer reliability [ in plasma especially]

The advent of true HDTV will change this equation.... but we are a long way from that getting into the mainstream.

Also your TV will have an dedicated upscaler which will be more fitting than anything in the 75/85.
 

NickRich

Standard Member
Thanks Gavtech. Whilst you confirm my "too good to be true" thoughts, I must admit to being a little taken aback! You seem to be saying I would have been better sticking with my old CRT TV, but what I see on my new screen (built in Freeview tuner vs CRT + digibox) does not bear this out. It's a subjective judgement I suppose, as you say.

I'm also now somewhat confused about the whole upscaling thing. If my TV has a built in upscaler which is better than that in the 75 / 85, what is the point of the new range of DVD players incorporating this feature? Or are you saying the Panasonic upscaler is no good? I have seen an Xbox playing an upscaled DVD though my TV and it is noticeably sharper and cleaner than on my existing DVD player. Perhaps it is the intrinsic quality of the player rather than the upscaling that makes the difference?

My thought process in all this has really been: I've got an HD ready TV...how can I make best use of this until Freeview HD (hopefully) comes along? (other than subscribing to Sky)....how about using upscaling to achieve the best possible picture on my TV?

So am completely barking up the wrong tree?

Nick
 

Gavtech

Administrator
NickRich said:
Thanks Gavtech. Whilst you confirm my "too good to be true" thoughts, I must admit to being a little taken aback! You seem to be saying I would have been better sticking with my old CRT TV,
Well not entirely. There have been other coincidental technology changes which make your purchase justifiable... and panels are not without their advantages... I'm just trying always to fight against the commercial hype.
By almost every measure of quality it is just a fact that CRT technology is a better performer than panel type technologies, because it is so mature and well developed.
Panel technologies will no doubt continue to improve and may one day exceed crt's in performance but they have quite a long way to go yet.
I just like to keep addressing some of these common myths ... like 'digital means better' etc.
NickRich said:
but what I see on my new screen (built in Freeview tuner vs CRT + digibox) does not bear this out. It's a subjective judgement I suppose, as you say.
If that is the case I would urge you to sit back and enjoy it then and don't give it a second thought.
The message is more important than the medium.
It is all to easy for us to go 'looking for trouble' and lose sight of the function of TV.
One of the problems of developing a technically educated eye is that one starts to see all the flaws and limitations of the technology, rather than simply enjoying it.

NickRich said:
I'm also now somewhat confused about the whole upscaling thing. If my TV has a built in upscaler which is better than that in the 75 / 85, what is the point of the new range of DVD players incorporating this feature? Or are you saying the Panasonic upscaler is no good?
No - I'm not saying that at all. I cant really comment on how good or bad it may be. It is just that a dedicated [internal] upscaler always has the advantage of finishing up in the native resolution of the screen which will produce the best performance by far.
NickRich said:
I have seen an Xbox playing an upscaled DVD though my TV and it is noticeably sharper and cleaner than on my existing DVD player. Perhaps it is the intrinsic quality of the player rather than the upscaling that makes the difference?
It may depend on many variables. The type of connection ... the source material ...[ if they are games for example , they are going to be in digitally generated primary colours ] It can be down to nothing more than internal tweaking which can give a subjective improvement to the quality... or it may indeed be due to the upscaling.

One of the problems of appraising these comparitive quality issues is that most people have been used to the limitations of analogue systems. When they first see a digital system they can be quite stunned by the quality because the digital process overcomes the shortcomings of analogue systems quite well ... Unfortunately it introduces a whole different range of shortcomings of its own, completely different in type to analogue failings ... and most people have not yet developed the discernment to see it.
In a sense, ignorance is bliss and I dont think it is all that helpful of me to point out to people the inadequacy, or more accurately, the shortcomings of their systems.
NickRich said:
My thought process in all this has really been: I've got an HD ready TV...how can I make best use of this until Freeview HD (hopefully) comes along? (other than subscribing to Sky)....how about using upscaling to achieve the best possible picture on my TV?

So am completely barking up the wrong tree?
I dont know that you are ... There are enough people on this forum who are convinced that it produces great benefit, but it remains a fact that it is a technical fudge.
It may be a fudge that works well enough for you.
I can only say try it and see. The EX75 and 85 are grand machines anyway so you would reap countless benefits from having them with the whole issue of upscaling aside.

Good luck.
 

NickRich

Standard Member
Thanks again Gavtech for such a detailed reply; I really appreciate the time and trouble you have taken over this, especially posting at 2am!

I take your point on the technical shortcomings of LCD panels; I held off buying one for ages because I thought most of them looked horrible. But recently I thought the quality of the best had improved enough for the advantages to outweigh the disadvatages, plus prices have fallen, so I took the plunge. I've also got a bigger screen and widescreen for the first time, so no regrets.

I'm still inclined to go for a Panasonic EX75, even if the upscaling hype is exaggerated, since it seems to be generally considered the best of its type at the moment.

Is anyone else actually using the 75 or 85 with an HD ready TV who would like to comment?

Thanks for all the help Gavtech and the good wishes.

Nick
 
P

Pedro_the_Fox

Guest
I've just recently (yesterday in fact) got a EX85 to go alongside my toshiba LCD HDTV and I can't see any noticable improvements from the upscaler.

Even the menu screen is still displayed in lo res.

But saying that, the recorder is excellent.
 

Aitch_Kay

Standard Member
Fantastic posts Gavtech ! Love the way you put things in to perspective !
 

Andy80

Novice Member
If you have an HD ready LCD or Plasma, it upscales already, it has to.

I currently connect my EX75 to my Panny Plasma via HDMI using the 576i setting and let the plasma do the scaling. The plasma will rescale the image to its native resolution anyway so might as well let it do the whole job. I find the difference between the different modes to be quite subtle though.
 
R

rawizard

Guest
Hi all
I have taken collection of my DMR-EX85, paired with a 50" Sony Bravia (WOW)
connected with HDMI on 720p. The upscaling on DVD is outstanding, connecting the sky+ box on scart 2 on RGB is not bad either. As a Sky installer I see hdbox and different hd tv's all week and can say DVD playback is not far from it. I record on sky+ and write to DVD on the EX85 in Standard quality (no bad).
All The Best
Steve:clap:
 

NickRich

Standard Member
Thanks Steve - encouraging!

Are you saying the 720p setting gives an improvement over lower settings? Others seem to find there is little difference. I wonder does a larger screen size make a difference?
 
R

rawizard

Guest
Hi
yes, you are using 720 progressive lines rather that the low res, 1080 interlaced is good but you do get blurring on fast action.

All The Best
Steve
 

lasitha

Novice Member
I've got a EX-75 connected to a Panasonic PV500. I am still wondering if I should spend £40 on a HDMI cable. So far, I've tried connecting via RGB Scart and component. For me, there is no difference in picture quality. Therefore, I think, HDMI won't give me a better picture.
 

pwilson5

Novice Member
I have tried RGB scart, component and HDMI on my Pioneer 436XDE and HDMI is by far the best quality, better colours and sharpness. I have a Tech&Link wires HDMI cable which cost me £40 from www.tvcables.co.uk. Hope that this helps
 

NickRich

Standard Member
Thanks for that link. I've just ordered a the EX75 so am on the lookout for an HDMI cable. I see the do a cheaper version (£26) but the Techlink has won a magazine award, so maybe worth paying the extra.
 

kroc_kroc

Active Member
see the do a cheaper version (£26) but the Techlink has won a magazine award, so maybe worth paying the extra.
Maybe the guys at Techlink gave the magazine more freebies than the guys who make the £26 version. I took this into consideration and opted for the £26 version ;)
 

low-def.

Well-known Member
I received my panny DMR-EX85 today and have been fiddling away. The upscaling quality via hdmi is excellent for a player/recorder less than £400. The upscaled picture is better than that of the Sony NS76, which I bought also recently, but which I will now be selling on ebay.

My only niggle at the moment (and i need help on this) is at the moment I only receive tv signal via my samsung ntl box (don't have tv ariel at the mo). I have the box set to RGB, and my Hitachi pd7200 recognizes the RGB signal via AV2. But when I switch the EX85 on and select AV2 on it the TV displays the signal as composite (strange).

I've checked the setup menu's via the ex85 and I have it setup to RGB. So what the hell is going on ?
 
G

Gerald Holbey

Guest
NEWBIE - PLEASE ADVISE

I have a Panasonic TH-37PV500 - 37" HD Plasma
I am about to buy a Panasonic DMR-EX75 Hard Drive / DVD Recorder

I want to use the HDMI Upscaling, Can you give me any tips/Info on setting it all up.

Many Thanks
Gerald Habershon
Sheffield
 

Gavtech

Administrator
It should be a simple case of connecting it via an HDMI cable [ which is not supplied incidentally] and making the appropriate settings in the set up menu.

The HDMI output setting is best set to automatic ... which it is most likely defaulted to anyway.

Return to the forums if you encounter any particular snags.
 

Aitch_Kay

Standard Member
I have the lesser Panny EZ45 which has HDMI and says on the tin that it will upscale..... would it perform exactly the same as an EX75/85/95 if I hook it up with a HDMI cable ..... ??
 

Gavtech

Administrator
Aitch_Kay said:
I have the lesser Panny EZ45 which has HDMI and says on the tin that it will upscale..... would it perform exactly the same as an EX75/85/95 if I hook it up with a HDMI cable ..... ??
I would expect so. It has the same output options.
 

Aitch_Kay

Standard Member
Do the Sony Rear Projection TV's have built in upscaling ..... they don't seem to ??
 

BHAEverest

Standard Member
Hi there, another Newbie, even though I have read this site for some time.

First of all, Happy New Year to you all, and thank you for all the advice given - it's helped me out no end.

I've had the EX75 for some time (very happy with it) and have just bought a Philips 32PFL7862D/10 HDTV. I've connected the 2 together with an HDMI lead. Now my question (probably daft) is does this lead allow the TV to switch to the correct AV channel when a DVD or HDD programme is started, or do you have to change the channel manually?

It hasn't so far, unlike a scart lead. Me stupid!

Thanks in advance.
 

Gavtech

Administrator
I've had the EX75 for some time (very happy with it) and have just bought a Philips 32PFL7862D/10 HDTV. I've connected the 2 together with an HDMI lead. Now my question (probably daft) is does this lead allow the TV to switch to the correct AV channel when a DVD or HDD programme is started, or do you have to change the channel manually?
Welcome to the forum.

The function you mention would require Viera link when used across HDMI... but the EX75 does not support viera link and it is very unlikely the philips would anyway. So No go.

You can connect a scart in addition to the HDMI to gain Q link functions which the Philips probably will support [ Known as Easy link]

You will probably have to do some setup tweaks on both devices - Look up Q Link in your manual index.
 

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