Panasonic Convention 2012 - Six million local dimming zones!

Steve Withers

Reviewer
I know you mentioned in the editorial that the screens were running 60hz so you couldn't check the 50hz bug but I'm quite surprised you didn't ask about it in the interviews? Before green blobs became the issue this was pretty much the biggest issue and something I remember Phil raising on his Japan factory trip. If they haven't fixed it I think that's very,very poor indeed.

To be honest the 50Hz bug was far less of an issue last year, barely noticeable on the VT30 and completely absent from the VX300; so I don't expect it to be an issue with this year's higher end plasmas.
 

Kalos Geros

Active Member
Nice explanation of 6000000 dimming cells and 2500Hz, however I think some things should still be added to this:

- 6000000 dimming cells is still a bit misleading since one cannot truly honestly say that plasma cells are fully dimmed in the way LED cells are...there is still a pre-charge in those plasma cells that makes them glow at "0 IRE", otherwise the blacks would be @ 0 cd/m2...you reported that Panasonic claims even lower pre-charge brightess this year, but it's still not 0...can't wait to find out how OLED deals with this...

- milisecond are no longer the problem with LCDs, but make a nice marketing weapon in the LCD segment since people still associate this figure with "better"...the actual problem, of course is the "sample and hold" principle that eliminated flicker for computer use but is a drawback with video...I believe the combination of 200Hz and scanning backlight are the best weapons to eliminate LCD motion blur as it, in a way, simulates the phosphor fading in plasma screens...also, 2500Hz with faster fading phosphors in new Pany plasmas are very likely to eliminate flicker...2500Hz is needed to compensate for faster phosphor fading... hope you guys can compare this somewhow to older models...

it seems to me that Panasonic may be on top again...looking forward for the reviews...
 
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thunderc8

Standard Member
It's pure conjecture on my part but based upon what I've seen and reading between the lines of what the manufacturers have said, I think they'll be gone in five years.

I was going to get the gt50 50' but i got into thinking to sit back and wait what the oled will offer and their prices.
Do you think the oled prices will drop to the plasmas prices in the next 2 years?
If not then i wont wait at all ill get the gt50.
 

azzy1000

Standard Member
Great article Steve, nice to see the new line up of pannys, although looking at the pics does seem that they have pinched the bezel design from samsungs d6900 series, athlough I don't mind as I've got one and really like it:)
But once again great review.
 

El_MUERkO

Active Member
No 55" and 65" in the GT range either forces people to buy the VT or forces them into the arms of Samsung. Back call Panny IMHO.
 

Chauvinnais

Active Member
That's quite an essay Steve and quite a gift you have for taking in detail and then presenting it objectively. I have two questions that I think everyone could be interested in if that's all right? They both relate subjectively to Panasonic's strategic thinking and the first relates to whether you think that their quest for ever larger panel size has now reached it's zenith and if so what the main influencing factors are.

My second question is a bit longer and relates to OLED and further forward to quantum dot technology (trillions of local dimming areas). I have in mind a Breakfast TV programme from around twenty years ago when some bods from Victoria University of Manchester had some glow-worms in a tank. Although they were mainly discussing the difficulty of patenting nature's little light bulbs, the unique selling point, they forecast, was the cheapness of production - so cheap that the wallpaper companies would be at the forefront of production and distribution. Is the production of OLED expected to be so inexpensive and the profits potentially so enormous that they could eclipse the payback period on that brand new plasma facility at Amagasaki?

Thank you in advance for any thoughts that you can give and thanks to you and Phil for putting all that work in above.
 
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Goose74

Active Member
Do the new models have fans?
Also, what happened to the pioneer tech where the blacks were so good that you could not tell if the tv was on in a dark room! I though Panasonic were developing the same thing?
 

Steve Withers

Reviewer
Looking forward to reviews :) do the new models still need 3D goggles for 3D viewing.

None of these TVs are autostereoscopic so you will need to buy 3D glasses (active or passive depending on the model) if you want to watch 3D content.
 

Steve Withers

Reviewer
Do you think the oled prices will drop to the plasmas prices in the next 2 years?

It's impossible to answer that but at the moment OLED production costs are quite high and I would expect the manufacturers to retain their margins for as long as possible.
 

Steve Withers

Reviewer
Do the new models have fans?
Also, what happened to the pioneer tech where the blacks were so good that you could not tell if the tv was on in a dark room! I though Panasonic were developing the same thing?

I didn't actually look for fans on the plasmas but I assume so.

Panasonic's blacks are the best on the market, although they still don't quite reach the depths of the Pioneer. Then again that was an eight grand TV being sold for four!
 

Steve Withers

Reviewer
have two questions that I think everyone could be interested in if that's all right? They both relate subjectively to Panasonic's strategic thinking and the first relates to whether you think that their quest for ever larger panel size has now reached it's zenith and if so what the main influencing factors are.

Well on their pro side they've managed to do 152", 103" and 85" screen sizes so clearly there is room for larger screen sizes on the consumer side. In fact Sharp have 70 and 80" screens and LG's 4K screen is 84" but I guess the limiting factor is actually being able to get the screen in the door and there comes a point where it is more sensible (and cheaper) to buy a projector.
 

Steve Withers

Reviewer
My second question is a bit longer and relates to OLED and further forward to quantum dot technology (trillions of local dimming areas). I have in mind a Breakfast TV programme from around twenty years ago when some bods from Victoria University of Manchester had some glow-worms in a tank. Although they were mainly discussing the difficulty of patenting nature's little light bulbs, the unique selling point, they forecast, was the cheapness of production - so cheap that the wallpaper companies would be at the forefront of production and distribution. Is the production of OLED expected to be so inexpensive and the profits potentially so enormous that they could eclipse the payback period on that brand new plasma facility at Amagasaki?

Well I'm not sure about the glow-worms but more recent firefly technology has definitely paid off! :)

Just kidding but in answer to your question OLED is very expensive to make so I doubt the manufacturers will be making enormous profits any time soon.
 

NW3

Active Member
To be honest the 50Hz bug was far less of an issue last year, barely noticeable on the VT30 and completely absent from the VX300; so I don't expect it to be an issue with this year's higher end plasmas.

Fair enough! And I doubt you'd have got a categorical answer anyway!

Do you know when you'll be getting any of the new screens for review ?
 

Chauvinnais

Active Member
Well on their pro side they've managed to do 152", 103" and 85" screen sizes so clearly there is room for larger screen sizes on the consumer side. In fact Sharp have 70 and 80" screens and LG's 4K screen is 84" but I guess the limiting factor is actually being able to get the screen in the door and there comes a point where it is more sensible (and cheaper) to buy a projector.

I expected Panasonic to introduce a panel larger than 65" to match the recent products from Sharp and LG and wondered why instead they left them to it.
 

Chauvinnais

Active Member
Well I'm not sure about the glow-worms but more recent firefly technology has definitely paid off! :)

Just kidding but in answer to your question OLED is very expensive to make so I doubt the manufacturers will be making enormous profits any time soon.

Ha ha Thank you Steve.
 

Steve Withers

Reviewer
Do you know when you'll be getting any of the new screens for review ?

They should start coming in for review in March and April.
 

Steve Withers

Reviewer
I expected Panasonic to introduce a panel larger than 65" to match the recent products from Sharp and LG and wondered why instead they left them to it.

I'm not sure how easy it will actually be to get hold of the larger screen sizes from Sharp and LG and they won't be cheap, so as I said you quickly approach a point where a projector makes a lot more sense.
 

Mr Boris

Standard Member
Hi. Any idea if they've solved the retention issue? VT30 sure did have it but not the G30 (since it's not a 3d panel, i guess)

Kind of annoying when watching in a dark room :(
 

Steve Withers

Reviewer
I didn't have any issues with image retention on the VT30 I reviewed or in fact any of the other Panasonics I've reviewed.
 

Nicholars

Banned
Can one of the staff here tell me conclusively about the refresh rates of panasonic plasmas in the UK please..... This is the impression I have so far...

2011 VT models = 60hz/96hz/100hz
2011 G/GT/ST models = 48hz/50hz/60hz

Is this correct? From looking in the shops the models below the VT defintely seem to flicker more than the VT.... So I would guess that only the Panasonic VT models do 96hz/100hz refresh rate? Also do you know what the 2012 models will be like regarding this please?
 

Steve Withers

Reviewer
I'm not sure about the ST and GT but I know the VT uses 60/96/100 because I've tested the VT for refresh rates. Having said that, I'd be surprised if the GT didn't use 60/96/100 given how similar the GT and VT are.
 

Nicholars

Banned
Why do the GT models appear to flicker more than the VT models then?
 

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