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Panasonic AE200 - Plug in a DVD player = How Bad ?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Tempest, Nov 1, 2003.

  1. Tempest

    Tempest
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    Read such a lot about HTPC, pixel to pixel mapping etc etc....

    Just got me to wonder.

    If you buy a Panasonic AE200 and just plug in a standard DVD player. Just how bad is it ?

    I recall LOTS of issues about the AE100 being bad unless you fed it just the right signal from just the right input port.

    On a side note: What would be the best/cheapest DVD player to buy that would give the BEST picture and connect to the BEST input port on a AE200 ?

    Would it really be THAT much worse than a HTPC ?
    I understand you can get very cheap progressive scan DVD players now..... Not sure which has better connections or even what connections to look for....

    Many thanks
     
  2. Bassbin

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    PTAE200 + Toshiba 330 DVD + £20 component lead + Draper 106" screen = Bliss.

    As long as you can black the room out fully and can position the pj straight on with no keystone and sit 1.5 times the distance of the screen width. I've had mine for 2 weeks and even though I've probably spent £10K on AV gear in the last 10 years this £750 pj beats everything else put together in terms of creating a home cinema experience.
     
  3. Jonathan100

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    There is nothing 'BAD' about the ae200's DVD playback ability off a standard player. As with everything in this game there is always something better availalable, but even if you buy the best, it will be superseded soon. People who have seen top of the range projectors, with HCPCs showing high definition stuff will be able to see that a dvd is slightly lacking, but to your average person a dvd source with a good cable will look great.

    As for cabling, composite will not look good because of colour bleeding, but the rest should be fine. Almsot ever DVD player on the market can output either S-video or RGB over scart. However if you want the best quality from a standard DVD player have a look for a dvd capable of outputing progressive scan over component cables.
     
  4. Tempest

    Tempest
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    Many thank's for your reply.

    1: Well I don't have any probs with room blackout. I only have 1 window in the room and can black it if I need to, but in reality I'm only thinking of watching it evening/night anyway so it's gonna be black anyway.

    2: I'm going to fit a shelf on the opposite wall to the screen. I will calculate (then test) to get the shelf at the optimum height projecting onto the opposite white wall. Then when it's fixed in place (and I have marked on the opposite wall where the picture is) I will put a screen at exactly that position.

    3: I'm only expecting a 6 foor screen as the projector will only be about 9 foot away, and most I can sit in reality is about 7 feet, so not ideal there (bit close) but can't do much about that.

    4: Can you tell me any more about that Toshiba DVD player you recommend. I'd be interested to know more about it and why it's a good choice for this combination.

    5: Screen. Thank's for your recommendation. How much and where's the best place to get one of those from ? To be honest as I was going for a budget projector I thought it would be daft to spent a lot on a screen and was intending to buy a sheet of wood (MDF or Painted Chipboard) fit to the wall and paint with that dulux icestorm paint (also paint a matt black surround to act as a border)

    I'd be interested to know how much better a screen such as your's is, over the painted wood cheap option.

    Cheers
     
  5. Tempest

    Tempest
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    I've been having a read up about that Toshiba SD330E DVD Player and must say I'm well impressed by the reviews I've read & the price too!!
    I notice it's being advertized as Multiregion. Is it just made that way or does it matter WHERE you buy it from as to how good it can handle multiregion DVD's (RCE etc)

    Also two other questions:

    1: I don't think it's Progressive Scan. I understood this was pretty much a MUST HAVE feature these days for this kind of use. Can anyone comment on this ? Should I go for something LIKE This Toshiba but with Progressice Scan also ?

    2: The Componant Out. Not having used this before I need to be explained what this actually is. I've seen YUV being mentioned. But I always understood the very best output is RGB as it keeps the Red, Green, Blue signals seperate (why Computer monitors have always used RGB) I have always used RGB Scart in the past to play DVD's on my Sony TV as it's RGB picture is way way above anything else in terms of picture sharpness.

    Can anyone explain why Componant output YUV is better for projector connection than say a RGB Scart connection ?

    Sorry of some of these questions seem a bit dumb, but much of this is new to me.

    Many thanks
     
  6. Tempest

    Tempest
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    Thanks for your reply.

    I just recall MANY people slamming the AE100 for it's image quality unless it was connected in just the right way. (Unless this had been fixed on the AE200)

    Would you have any recommendations regards a Progressive Scan DVD Player with Componant out.

    Also how is componant out better than RGB Scart ?
    Ofr is it more a case of the Componant IN on the AE200 giving a better picture than the SCART RGB IN ?

    Many thanks
     
  7. IAMGEOFF

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    I can help with a few bits.
    Firstly for a progressive Pal/NTSC player try this:
    http://www.play.com/play247.asp?page=title&r=GADG&title=138745

    I have a Panny AE200 though not permanently set up yet (awaiting decorating dedicated room) I have tried all it's inputs using a PC and an old but good Sony 7700 DVD player which has YUV out. Through the Sony the best picture was definately via the YUV, followed by RGB then SVideo then composite.
    The best picture was via PC using powerstrip to give 1:1 pixel mapping.
    As for the screen, from 9 feet away you will get an 11 foot wide picture. There is a site that will give you picture size for projector distance but I'm at work atm so can't post the link.
    I've bought a roller blind from IKEA for my screen, it's a 6' 4" wide white one from the Tupplur range of blinds for £20. I haven't used it yet but her indoors was not keen on a huge piece of wood.
     
  8. Tempest

    Tempest
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    Thanks IAMGEOFF for the info.

    Had a quick peek at that DVD Player. Certainly seems to offer everything. Will see if I can find out more about it.
    Quite a jump up though in price £250 against £80 for the Toshiba previously recommended.
    Guess I'm wondering just what progressive scan does actually do.
    eg: Is it a

    "well if you look really carefully in some scenes you can just make out the difference"

    or is it,

    "my god it's so clear and detailed compaired to my old non progressive scan model"

    I want a clear, crisp, bright, sharp image.
    I can't stand dull fuzzy images.
    Want Something you almost cut your eyes on it's so sharp! :)

    Regards your screen calculation: Either I've been using the charts wrong, but I've never seen anything that gives an 11 foot wide image from a 9 foor distance. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I thought it was just a tiny bit over 6 foot wide from 9 feet away.


    Regards the powerstrip HTPC route. When you say it game you the best image. Is there anyway you can quantify that ?
    I mean, if you walked into the room could you tell any difference, or what it very subtle and could only be noticed by looking carefully at certain scenes ?

    Ikea Roller Blind idea is good. Like that....
     
  9. Bassbin

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    There's lots of info on the Toshiba player on these forums and quite a bit on the various prog scan machines just try a couple of searches.

    I got my multiregion Toshiba from Richer Sounds for £69.99 (price match against Amazon at £79.99). With the £10 saved I bought a 3 year waranty. Richer's are now advertising a Pioneer model I think for about the same money. I to considered a prog scan player but I'm happy to upgrade in a year or two when I'm guessing I'll also be upgrading my pj. For the present I think better to invest spare money on more expensive amps and speakers which will last through several upgrades.
     
  10. Tempest

    Tempest
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    Thanks Bassbin for the reply.
    Someone on another forum made the comment that Progressive Scan was only noticable once your screen size went OVER 6 foot wide. If that's the case, then it sounds quite a subtle improvment really.
    Unless others disagree with this statement ?
     
  11. IAMGEOFF

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    Picture via the projector is sharp.

    I've not seen a prog DVD player but from what comments I've read it seems its a subtle but noticeable difference.

    Screen size:- I'll post the link when I get home tonight, but it will be late. You put in your projector model and either the size of picture you want to give a projector distance or put in a projector distance and it will tell what screen size it will give.

    Picture difference via Powerstrip on the PC is night and day difference compared to my DVD player.
     
  12. IAMGEOFF

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  13. Tempest

    Tempest
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    Thanks for this....

    Well, If I'm using this right.

    Front 9 feet away with a Pannie AE200U
    I am looking at between 65 - 77 inches wide pic

    Or.... 5ft 5" to 6ft 6"

    That's a very nice size :)

    But I know it means I'm gonna be sitting only just a bit futher away than the screen is wide... (about 7 feet away) which I hope does not mean screendoor city...

    Also depends just how close I can put the back of the pannie against the rear wall.... Did even wonder if I could make it closer than it should be but make a custom fan arrangement that quietly blew cool air around the rear of the unit to avoid heat build up.
     
  14. HappyLad

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    Jeez...
    Just been looking at the American Amazon site.
    The HK DVD25 can be had for $230, (about £135):eek:

    And I though the Play.com price was good
    :(
     
  15. fred123go

    fred123go
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    hey,
    I run my Panny 200 with a pioneer dv-656 which has a very impressive picture, however i think you would benefit from progressive scan...hopefully i will be getting it soon...ish, lol
    Fred
     
  16. Jonathan100

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    As no one with more experience had commented on progressive scan I will give it a bash. On a standard dvd connected to TV setup the image is interlaced. This means that the screen only draws the odd lines of a field, and then it draws the even lines of the next field. So in each scan only half of the image is being drawn. If the object has moved in between the odd and even lines being drawn this can result in jagged edges because there are 2 different images being shown.

    Progressive scan however draws the full frame every single refresh which results in a smoother and less jagged picture.

    Progressive scan is available over the component input only, hence its main advantage. As far as difference in quality, I have not seen one but from what I have read it is a visible difference, but not a great one. If you are buying a new DVD it would seem silly to miss the opertunity to get the best possible picture without going down the hpcp route.
     
  17. Tempest

    Tempest
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    Thanks for that clear explanation Jonathan.

    I always knew that TV's run an interlaced image.
    1st the odd then the even lines are scanned (UK TV)

    On Computer monitors we moved away from interlaced displays many years ago as computers, monitors and graphics chips got fast enough to handle having all the scan lines refreshed on each and every scan, not just every other scan.

    I didn't actually realise that a LCD Projector did an interlaced display like an old TV did. I guess I assumed that it was more like a computer screen.

    If the above is all correct then I can see how it would produce a smoother display on a large screen.
     
  18. whiteswan

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    with my pan ae100 - both ntsc/pal prog scan.

    Superb pic with 15m component cable.

    Dave, Oldham UK.
     
  19. whiteswan

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  20. whiteswan

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    either - okay goto digitalpoint.co.uk and search dvd players for Sony730.

    Its £129.99 free delivery - multi region and ntsc and pal prog scan.

    Hope that helps.

    Dave, OLDHAM UK.
     
  21. Jonathan100

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    You are right, things are a little bit more blured here. By the nature of it, an LCD panel does not scan like a tele tube does, the pixels are fixed in their on/off state and do not change until the projector tells them too as it were. Therefore the image I suppose is progressive in that the projector shows every line all the time. An interlaced image therefore has to be put back together (deinterlacing) before it can be projected.

    My understanding is that DVDs can be interlaced, progressive or a mixture :rolleyes:. So if it is an interlaced DVD then the picture can either be deinterlaced by the projector, or by the DVD player (in the case of a progressive dvd player). Doing it by the DVD is apparently better becuase it is done on the digital side, before any analogue conversion. If the DVD image is progressive then theres no question, interlacing and then deinterlacing your image is going to result in a poorer picture.

    I hope I am right about all this, the DVDs having varing interlaced / progressive bit seemed rather wiered to me, but that was what I read.
     

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