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Panasonic 700AE and DVI

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by dnoon, Nov 15, 2004.

  1. dnoon

    dnoon
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    Hi I have my projector working great with my HTPC over VGA with Powerstrip setting native resolution.

    I just bought a 3M HDMI-DVI cable and when I connect the PC and the PJ the only resolution I have is 640x480, which obviously sucks. I cant see any settings to change. I have an ATI 9600 card, and the ATI utilities recognise the PJ but elsewhere it is shown as a microsoft plug and play monitor.

    Any suggestions?

    Thanks
     
  2. mamoulian

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    Is this of any help?

    http://wilsonet.com/mythtv/mythhd.php

    It is written with linux as a target but speaks generally of DVI/HDTV standards and powerstrip to set the res.

    I'm working towards this stage, building mythtv on a spare box, not at this stage yet but when I do I'll have the same problems so please post any progress...

    Cheers
    Neil
     
  3. Lapinou

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    You have to use powerstrip to add the 1280x720 resolution to windows for the LCD monitor (projector). Just select the appropriate device (usually secondary device) in powerstip in the 'display profiles' section and go to 'advanced timing function', then look for a button called 'custom resolutions'. In there you will find 1280x720, select that one and let powerstrip do the rest. One reset later and you will have 1280x720.
    I'm using it over a 20m cable and the quality is fantastic, far better than component or VGA inputs.
     
  4. PRINCEGRINCH

    PRINCEGRINCH
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    Use the latest ATI 4.11 Catalyst drivers. They allow the native 1280 x 720 setting without the need for Powerstrip.
     
  5. jamesgrahamuk

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    I can confirm princegrinch's remarks about the new catalyst drivers.

    A mate of mine popped round last night with his PC and a brand new copy of Half-Life 2. We updated his drivers to the latest catalyst release and were able to set his desktop to 1280x720.

    Connected with a horribly cheap and nasty VGA cable the image quality was stunning (and, strangely, nary a hint of VB!). So good in fact, that I am now planning on building a HTPC (and something to play HL2 on). I was impressed that we were able to run HL2, CounterStrike, Everquest, etc. all at the native res of the PJ.

    As a Mac user this is somewhat like turning to the dark side...

    ...mind you, the PC will simply act as a glorified console and DVD player.
     
  6. dnoon

    dnoon
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    Thanks for the input guys, I will give this a try this evening. My problem might be slightly different as I can see the VGA port in powerstrip , not the DVI despite the DVI connected, probably user error and I need more time tweaking.

    Good luck with building the HTPC. Having all my DVD's ripped at full rate is so cool and I have Wifi to my other machine for all my CD's in lossless Monkeys Audio. Sweet :thumbsup:

    Just one tip, I originally bought a P4 3.2 for this machine but after building it up in a Silverstone case I found that the amount of heat it was producing was unacceptable with even the standard Intel fan never mind the low noise one I was planning on using. I was getting CPU temps and case temps of 60 degrees! :devil: I gave up on this and swapped the CPU from my desktop which was a 2.8P4 with HT and the case now runs at a luke warm 30 degrees and I can run my silent fan at its lowest setting, the whole PC now is just a bit louder than the PJ, but when installed in my rack you cant hear it, the loudest thing is the hard drive.

    The 2.8 is plenty for me to run DVD with FFDshow running re-size to 1440x1152 (2x DVD) with blur&NR and sharpen filters.

    My mate just gave me his Doom3 CD as he completed it so I will try a game tonight.

    My HTPC Spec:

    2.8 P4 HT Enabled
    1.2 TB Disk (3 x 400)
    512MB RAM
    ASUS P4P800 Motherboard
    Sapphire Fanless ATI9600 Graphics
    Tangan Silent PSU
    Silverstone Case

    XP Pro SP2
    Zoomplayer 4.0 (you can create disk specific profiles, essential for PAL and NTSC with FFDshow)
    FFDShow
    MyHTPC
    Winamp
    Monkeys Audio
    DVD Decrypter
    DVD Profile
    DVDpro2my

    It took me a while to get this stable, but now it is, I am very happy

    Good luck!
     
  7. zoolap

    zoolap
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    Kinda offtopic as it more HTPC related, but related to AE700:

    So ATi Catalyst has native 1280 x 720 support, but what do you do about PAL vs NTSC frequencies. Is there an easy way to switch or better still to get your dvd software to do the switch?
     
  8. dnoon

    dnoon
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    Use a zoomplayer definition file to set the registry for Pal or NTSC on a per disc basis, works a treat.

    To create a film specific file press ctrl-D while the film is playing, then search for .df files on your machine, there will be a default one, and your new one named something like 32398723987329.df. Go in the default one and look at how to set registry (in the notes at the top), copy this method to set the DWORD for FFDshow

    PM me if you need more so as not to spoil this thread, took me ages to get this working

    Other choice is to use a .reg or .bat file manually to set the DWORD
     
  9. dnoon

    dnoon
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    Yes I now have a Panasonic 700 working with a PC over HDMI/DVI at 1280 x 720!

    It took me six hours last night to get this to work, for ages the HDMI setting would still stick at 640x480. One of the first things that made a big difference was a clean out and re-install of Catalyst as suggested above.

    I actually tried so many things that I am not 100% sure what fixed it, but I found that using the VGA port as primary monitor with Catalyst 4.11 to set it to 1280x720, allowed me to then configure the DVI slot as 1280x720 as a secondary monitor. Then go and switch the primary/secondary in display properties (the "make this my primary monitor" checkbox) then disable the extend desktop on the VGA. On my card DVI is monitor 1, VGA is monitor 2. I just ran two cables to the projector, not two monitors (hope that makes sense)

    It seems to be working now, but despite doing this it did reset back to VGA once last night after a re-boot, but was fine this morning :rolleyes: the results are worth the effort, but several times now I have been researching DVD Players and Scalers as an alternative :) but I refuse to give up!

    Best of luck
     
  10. mpeg10

    mpeg10
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    dnoon are you getting the top and bottom of the screen chopped off, also is there any ghosting in text at all via dvi?
     
  11. mamoulian

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    What refresh rate is good for 1280x720 on the AE700?

    (this is all using VGA as I don't have a DVI cable right now)

    The NVidia drivers have a 1280x720. It defaults to 60hz which looks ok, you can increase the refresh up to 85 (it won't do 100) but anything above 60hz there's a nasty flickery band at the bottom of the picture.

    Using powerstrip the flickery band can be removed, I've got it up to about 95hz before the projector refuses the signal.
    However the picture doesn't fill the (16:9) screen in anything above than 60hz, its still the 720 pixels high but I can't stretch it to fill the height. Just move it up and down.

    Also the picture is not rock solid, if you go up to it and look at text you can see each pixel 'wibbling' slightly, not a lot, looks like it might be interlaced but according to Powerstrip its not.


    If I've got this working fine using VGA is it guaranteed to work fine using DVI (if I splash out on an expensive long cable)?
    Would the quality be any better?

    Cheers
    Mamo.
     
  12. explicitlyrics

    explicitlyrics
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    apparently so although quite a few have been having problems with DVI on the AE700, I was completely happy with VGA so I never bothered investigating DVI (also I have Sky+ and DVD/XBOX so dont really need a PC much).
     
  13. joffonon

    joffonon
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    I'm connected via DVI, and can get mine to sync to 60, 72, 75 and 100Hz with no problems. It's definitely accepting refresh rates above 60Hz, as I can see some 3:2 pulldown stuttering on film-based material if I run at 60Hz, but it's perfectly smooth at 72Hz. Haven't got a VGA cable long enough to test it with, but I've read that if you set the PC to 1280x720 then use the 'Auto' option on the AE700, that it will set itself to give a good picture.

    If the pixels are "wibbling" (good word!), then you haven't got 1:1 pixel mapping. Using 'Auto' may solve that.
     
  14. spearsd

    spearsd
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    Two questions:

    Are you sure your 1280x720@60 mode is at 1:1 pixel mapping over DVI and not being scaled by the projector?

    What video card are you using?

    I want this projector, but only if it can successfully do 1280x720 at 60Hz and 72Hz.

    Thanks,

    spearsd

     
  15. joffonon

    joffonon
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    I'm as sure as I can be. Text looks as sharp as I can imagine it to be. No ghosting, no wavy lines; everything is as sharp as a razor.

    AE700's display tells me I'm running 750p(720p)@60, regardless of refresh rate, but as I said I can see a difference is scrolling smoothness if I set my display to 72Hz; my test is usually the opening title scroll to Attack of the Clones, and there are 3:2 pulldown judders at 60Hz (although I am less susceptible to this than PAL speedup in sound, so I have to really look for it!). At 72Hz it's totally smooth, and is so film-like it's incredible (after nearly a month, I still haven't got over the WOW factor!). Picture quality when playing DVDs (TheaterTek 2.04) is awesome.

    Of course, I'm getting the overscan that others have reported when using the HDMI socket, but as I have a custom 2.35:1 screen and the majority of my watching is 1.85:1 or 2.35:1 films, I am not concerned with that.

    Video card is an XFX Nvidia Geforce FX5700, running the latest drivers (66.93).

    Hope that helps! :)
     
  16. Lapinou

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    I'm afraid you are wrong, firstly RGB is an analogue source therefore 1:1 pixel mapping is not valid as, in effect, pixels are not transmitted with a position (small timing differences in V&HSYNC change relative positions of the screen, you will never get an 'exact' match with the physical matrix of the projector).

    Secondly, regarding the HDMI/DVI interface, it is in fact providing an exact pixel mapping at 1280x720 (looking very closely at the screen will verify this). When the projector cuts the top and bottom portion of the screen on HDMI signals it is cropping the signal, not squeezing a full screen into a reduced resolution. Again, it is extremely obvious to those who have seen this (you have half the menu bar missing in windows for example).

    Therefore with HDMI/DVI you have an exact 1:1 pixel mapping at 1280x720, but you loose perhaps 20-30 pixels of the signal. Therefore if you are using the projector to watch films that are wider than 16:9 you have lost nothing.
     
  17. mamoulian

    mamoulian
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    Joffonon:

    >but I've read that if you set the PC to 1280x720 then use the 'Auto' option
    >on the AE700, that it will set itself to give a good picture.

    Which 'auto' option are you referring to on the AE700?



    Lapinou:

    Why do you think the DVI signal is being cropped?
    If Windows is set to output 1280x720 and the projector has a 1280x720 LCD, what is chopping off 20-30 pixels and why?


    Cheers
     
  18. Lapinou

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    It is the projector that is removing slices of the screen from the top and bottom (I've compared it with an LCD monitor, and it is not the same), if you compare the height of the image between component and HDMI inputs then you can see the difference. As to why, that is a good question, it seems consistent across all the AE700's so I guess it is a design 'feature' (read 'fault'). Its a question we should ask Panasonic, though it is not a show stopping fault, it is rarely noticeable, just irksome.
     
  19. joffonon

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    I stress "I've read" this, because I don't use the VGA input, but apparently if you connect a PC to the AE700 using the VGA input there is an option on the Picture settings called 'Auto' that, when selected, automatically sets things like dot clock and the like and comes back with (I've read) a pretty damn good picture, with no cropping.

    As I say, I haven't used this myself, as the option isn't there on HDMI input.

    Oh, and I'd better temper my comments above about using 1280x720 @ 72Hz; this was what the Nvidia software was telling me I was running. However, the other day I loaded up Powerstrip to test this, and lo and behold the Nvidia software was lying. With Powerstrip, I couldn't sync it to anything above 60Hz, but I could set it to 48Hz, 50Hz and 60Hz, so judder-free NTSC footage is still achievable.
     
  20. joffonon

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    Exactly, Lapinou. Absolutely correct on all counts. :thumbsup:
     
  21. Lapinou

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    Benjust, I have to doubt you own, or have even seen an AE700 using HDMI as the screen cropping everyone mentioned is obvious as that, screen cropping. The answer to the question is that using DVI/HDMI the projector does act as a FDP, with exact pixel mapping at 1280x720. The cropping is as clear as day when you change sources, the physical size of the projected screen changes, it is not rescanning.

    The capability of a FDP to up and down scale resolutions is not unusual, nearly all panels can do this, but you always loose image quality. Again, when an LCD panel is scaling in anything but multiples of its resolution (e.g. 640x360) this results in 'fuzzyness' in the image as it is resampled (using a bilinear or bicubic algorithm fo example). I would suggest that those people suffering from resampling artifacts are not using 1280x720.
     
  22. zoolap

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    Ey ey calm down calm down :)

    Anyone have pictures of this problem. Also what if you used a 1280 x 720 picture displayed in full screen to demonstrate - would be very useful for those of us considering this projector.

    Thanks.
     
  23. David Rasmussen

    David Rasmussen
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    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!! I wrote this to you also on avsforum! :

    PLEASE post your PowerStrip string for 50 Hz 1280x720 with the AE700!!

    PLEASE!!!

    /David
     
  24. joffonon

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    I've responded to that thread, but for the benefit of others I'm afraid I'm a Powerstrip novice, so can only state how I did what I did; all I did was reboot the PC with the projector being the only 'monitor' connected, so that Powerstrip recognised a digital display rather than my usual CRT monitor. Then, with 1280x720 as my display resolution, I went into Display profiles, then Configure, then selected Advanced timing options. I then changed the refresh rate to whatever I was testing, clicked OK, then the projector would re-sync (or not, at refresh rates higher than 60Hz!). All three timings are now saved for direct access.
     
  25. mamoulian

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    I'm back at this again, now my mythtv box is almost ready!

    The suggestion that the 700 is cropping the 1280x720 HDMI input image by say 30 pixels, which a few posters to this thread agree with...

    A post on another thread here:

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199613&highlight=overscan

    suggests that firmware 1.05 adds an option to turn off HD overscan into the service menu.

    Do you reckon this will remove the cropping discussed in this thread and show us the full 1280x720 picture, perfectly pixel mapped 1:1 over DVI/HDMI?

    Cheers
    Neil
     
  26. FoxyMulder

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    For those that are getting ghosting i suggest they check their sharpness settings because at anything above zero ( on normal setting ) you get edge enhancement added to text and images, i have mine set to zero and do not get edge enhancement.

    Going to try the PC now with Powerstrip and see if i can get something better than 60hz which hurts my eyes with a PC.

    Once i hook up i go into the Panasonics Position menu and click auto setup and it fills the screen perfectly so no bits cut off for me, i tried a number of screen resolutions ans settled on 1024x768 at 60hz ( not ideal but it works ) everything looks as sharp and detailed as i would expect at this resolution.
     

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