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pal60 vs ntsc

Discussion in 'General Video Gaming Chat' started by keyser, Jun 2, 2002.

  1. keyser

    keyser
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    I saw on my friends x-box that he can choose a pal60hz. What is this, an normal resilution pal signal in 60hz instead of 50? Is it therefore better than ntsc?
     
  2. richard plumb

    richard plumb
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    I'm not sure if it is better than NTSC. In theory you might get better colour separation and definition, but then if the game is using PAL60 as a way to more accurately represent the original (which will have been mastered for NTSC display devices), then you might get inaccurate colours.

    Personally I'd rather have PAL 50 optimised content and keep the PAL60 stuff for arcade conversions etc where accuracy of timing is critical. But I recognise that this is a simpler solution for most games.
     
  3. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    PAL60 is normally regarded as being a 525/60 signal with a PAL colour carrier.

    Meaning is the same image structure as an NTSC signal but encoded with the PAL colour carrier instead. Pal does offer improvements over NTSC colourwise but if you are hooked up via RGB it won't make any difference whether its a PAL colour signal or an NTSC one ( RGB is neither PAL/NTSC which are composite colour sytems, RGB isn't composite its RGB!)

    Advantages with regard to a games console are faster max frame rates on certain games that take advantage of it ( not all do on the Xbox : Halo for example is optimised for PAL50).

    Disadvantages some TVs can't sync to a 525/60 signal ( this is fairly rare though these days: note the the PAL nature of the signal means you don't necessarily need a TV that says its NTSC compatabel even more likely you won't have problemsif you are using RGB).

    The slight loss of resolution by using 525/60 compred to 625/50 in my experience is rarely apparent on game graphics.
     
  4. Dunedin397

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    There's absolutely no reason for a properly converted PAL 50hz title to look any different to the NTSC 60hz version.

    However, PS2 games don't output PAL60, any 60hz options change the output to NTSC. The Dreamcast was different in that the 60hz option was actually PAL60.

    As a PS2 owner, I'm still disapointed that in the 2st century I still see badly converted PAL titles. Capcom's Resident Evil: Code Veronica and Devil May Cry along with Square's Final Fantasy 10 are cases in point. Great games, but spoiled (to a greater extent on a 16:9 TV).

    Although the PAL conversion situation is improving, I really would like to see 60hz options as standard, be they PAL60 or NTSC.

    Herdy Gerdy is a an example of a poor PAL version, ie 50hz with big borders, but with a 60hz option that gives you full screen, full speed gaming.

    I really think Sony should have made a 60hz option a requirement on the PS2 and put an end to this issue.

    Dunedin397
     
  5. NeoBlade

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    Pretty much the gamers have been wanting a 60Hz option since the PSX days. Only Jak and Daxter stands out for me as the best localised game on the PS2 (60Hz, widescreen and screen alignment adjust). The latter IMO is just as important as 60Hz since when running a game via RGB scart the image is often shifted to the left. Doesn't matter when you play it on a widescreen, but on a 4:3 TV it does annoy.

    Only Sega has recognised this and have been active in making great PAL ports with 60Hz and screen alignment as standard. You can be pretty sure that all Sega games will have the same treatment and Sony needs to apply some presure on the 3rd Party developers to do the same.

    The worst of the bunch though has to be Nintendo since only recently they've added RGB to their european consoles and 60hz support.

    I got fed up of owning below average PAL conversions and sick of some huge titles not being released in the UK (Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross, XenoGears, Dew Prism, Valkyrie Profile and Dragon Quest VII just to name a few...) so I chipped my PSX and PS2. Having a modified console is only illegal when you play copied games but I don't support piracy and only buy original titles from Japan and the USA.

    The Japanese version of Final Fantasy X: International has the full english dub and subtitles so I bought it in Feb. Full screen, full speed gaming as the way it was intended. When I saw the PAL FFX I was shocked at the size of the borders top and bottom and the sluggish speed but I wasn't surprised. It only justified my decision to have a mod chip and to play the original games they way it should.

    Of course if you don't play videogames a lot then you won't see what the fuss is all about, but I believe in equal rights for gaming so why pay the full price for a game that is inferior?
     
  6. Dunedin397

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    I bought a PAL PSX in 1997 and it wasn't until 1998 that I got into imports. I bought many of the Capcom titles due to the poor PAL versions, the Square titles that never appeared in PAL regions (such as Chrono Cross) and other RPGs such as the Lunar series.

    PAL Resident Evil: Code Versonica and Devil May Cry from Capcom and Final Fantasy 10 from Square are atrocious produducts and should never have been released in the state they are. Huge borders are slowdown don't show the PS2 as a next generation console.

    I was very glad that my widescreen JVC allowed me to stretch the picture vertically to eliminate the borders, it made Devil May Cry playable. Once I was able to access the engineer's menu on the set I could then centre and widen the picture horitontally to eliminate the borders on the left and right, but many people won't be able to do this.

    Sony should have made a 60hz option a requirement on every game and maybe could have gone as far to have forced owners to have a 60hz compatible set and supplied an RGB SCART cable instead of the composite cables and SCART adapter that they went for.

    Ever since I bought a US PS2, it's allowed me to play Devil May Cry and Final Fantasy 10 the way they should be (and cheaper than the PAL versions!), along with games that haven't yet or won't be released here, such as Hot Shots Golf 3.

    I think the problem is slowly getting less of an issue that it used to be, but there's still a long way to go for PAL games.

    Dunedin397
     

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