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Pal60 probs with Tosh Strata xzd26p

Discussion in 'Nintendo Forums' started by kwangomango, May 7, 2003.

  1. kwangomango

    kwangomango
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    When using the internal "Progress" mode with 60Hz material i am getting bleed lines on red colours. This is particularly noticeable on the red Zelda text on the title screen of Windwaker. Cube is running in PAL60 mode obviously. The problem does not appear when using any of the other scan modes of the tv. Would someone be kind enough to check this out for me so i can decide if my tv is at fault.
    Thanks.
     
  2. bash

    bash
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    I get red bleeding with progress mode with NTSC stuff, strange when you consider its says that this mode is suited to NTSC better than PAL. If I switch to Active or 100Hz its fine (100hz is better actualy, 120hz ;))
     
  3. NeoBlade

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    Progress mode runs at 50Hz I believe hence the effects. Running a game at 60Hz with a display fixed on 50Hz won't be pretty. Better off using the 100Hz picture mode as its a lot crisper. Make sure you are using a tweaked Picture Mode 3 as well for your colour/brightness settings...
     
  4. kwangomango

    kwangomango
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    Thanks for the responses guys.
    I am a bit confused now though. The manual states:

    PROGRESS. (Progressive) is 50Hz and is particularly
    suited to NTSC images.

    But NTSC is 60Hz - how can a 50Hz mode be suitable for 60Hz material?

    If progress is a 50Hz mode i can see how it might cause problems with 60Hz material. I don't understand though why the 100Hz scanning options don't also give the same problems.
     
  5. NeoBlade

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    Progress just activates the Toshiba's internal de-interlacer and clearly its de-interlacer (even though its pants) is messing up the image. I hardly use the mode at all to be honest since 100Hz is a lot better. Just try it for a week at 100Hz then when theres a sport on, switch it back to progress or anyother mode and notice how soft the image is.

    Toshiba has been guilty before by saying the TV is progressive scan enabled even for PAL (when thats only true for the Picture Frame 2 and NOT the Strata) so really I'd take they're manual descriptions with a pinch of salt. Especally after the original Picture Frame saga.

    Stick to 100Hz kwangomango, after all, thats another reason why you bought the TV in the first place... ^_^
     
  6. kwangomango

    kwangomango
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    To be honest, Progressive is the only scan mode i liked. 100Hz seems to flicker more than 50Hz especially on menus. Progressive also seemed more film like than either Natural or Active. Would there be any reason for the picture being softer? It doesn't look like it to me - just makes the line structure disappear.
    Also the tv buzzes much more when using any mode other than Progressive :(
     
  7. bash

    bash
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    I use progress for Tv/movies and 100hz for games and footy.
     
  8. NeoBlade

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    Its softer to me because I've been using 100Hz for over a year now and going back the image loses detail. 100Hz does flicker more (even though it was supposed to get rid of it) but it only happens on static menus as you say, if I were playing Championship Manager or something then it might annoy but since I'll be playing animated 2D and 3D titles it doesn't matter to me.

    If you were to do a side by side comparison to Progress and 100Hz just by flicking through you won't notice much as your eyes are used to progress mode and probably won't pick up the extra sharpness and clarity. However its bad news to hear that you get buzzing from that set mate >_< Any chance of a swap like for like/refund? Its best to have it done when you can.

    Currently my TV settings are using a modified Picture Mode 3, 100Hz for everything and consoles/games in progressive scan.
     
  9. kwangomango

    kwangomango
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    Have had my third set for a couple of weeks now and have decided i can't put up with the buzzing or the dirty patches on the sides. It's pity cos in picture quality and style terms the set is gorgeous. Currently sorting out a refund with John Lewis and looking at getting the Picture Frame 2. PAL prog scan will be nice but it is a shame i've gotta pay for speakers and an internal amp i don't need.
     
  10. NeoBlade

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    I'd keep the cash for a bit longer mate.. Theres an ongoing Picture Frame 2 thread and thus far members have found the awful "trailing" that seriously hurt the first picture frame... But instead of white phosphers (sp) its green! o_O Still I'd take the risk on it if I didn't have my Strata and hope I get lucky.
     
  11. kwangomango

    kwangomango
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    That was me who noticed the green trailing but i could only see it on white credits rolling up a black screen. It is a very slight smear. Another member has verified this on his own set but has yet to see it on moving action within a film.
    Forgot to mention earlier that my Strata also leaves a horrible green/white trail whenever any brightish objects move across a black background.
    Still waiting for JL to get back to me about the refund. I can see a post pub lunch phone rant occuring....
     
  12. NeoBlade

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    lol Take a few drinks beforehand as it could get ugly ^_- Sorry to hear that your Strata has those trails mate. On mine I have no dark sides, buzzing etc but I do get a pulsating effect on the top right when using progressive scan either from my DVD player or Gamecube >_< I can live with it though as its hardly noticable but its there nevertheless.

    The thing is I didn't want to risk another set only to find that cured but others arising so I'm saving up for a Sony HS10 projector for my movie needs and to keep my Strata for gaming/Sky.

    Tell me how it pans out kwangomango, as the last thing we want is another Picture Frame saga to go on without external pressure from consumers. The Tosh peeps were kind at the start but now they hate us ^_^;;
     
  13. sjw

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    What cable are you using?
    When I tried the 2nd disk which only supports 60Hz I thought the menu screen looked awful. Especially the big red Zelda writing. Sort of lines running through it.
    Bought the official RGB cable and the difference is astonishing. Perfect picture. This is the only cable to properly support RGB and 60Hz.


    Ste
     
  14. bash

    bash
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    Same as me mate. I get slight tear top right of my 36ZD with bright or flashing white in prog scan. Only tested with PS2 with Ixos component cables, do hope to get prog scan DVD action going with modded Xbox soon, hopefully wont get same reaction.

    My set is too good to risk swapping for worse one.
     
  15. bibooo

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    kwangomango,

    With regards to your red colour bleed, I will echo sjw's question: What sort of cable do you have? This kind of effect is really bad when using the standard composite video cable.

    I don't agree with any of the comments made about Progress Mode which works (for me) perfectly with every source, but I don't have the time to argue about it.
     
  16. kwangomango

    kwangomango
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    No please argue;)
    Neo's are the first comments i've seen which recommend the use of any mode other than Progressive. That is the only mode i have really used so i can't comment on the others.
    With regards to the bleeding, i get exactly the same effect when using a Thor scart from my DVD player. It would seem that Progressive mode is not suited to NTSC interlaced material. The bleeding looks exactly like the combing artefacts here:

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68847

    It only happens on reds and certain other colours(which are can't remember at the mo!),even on static images.
     
  17. kwangomango

    kwangomango
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    Have had nothing but fantastic service from JL over the last week. They have agreed a refund and will be collecting the tv next weekend. They even offered another replacement! Strangely enough, now i know the tv is going i have become much less critical of the buzzing and the dirty edges - am almost convincing myself to keep it! With the smearing probs on the pf2 i'll probably wait for the new Panasonic and Pixel Plus 2's which are due imminently.
    It is a pity no other tv has a closed cabinet like the strata - it does wonders for the styling and hides a plethora of consoles and joypads.
     
  18. NeoBlade

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    Heh yeah, still I've almost given up on CRT technology to produce the best picture now... Looking into projectors ^_^;; The Sony HS10 is the one I'm looking at the moment to use as the main cinema screen while the Strata can take the bulk of the gaming and Sky sessions.

    As for bibooo's comments, I trust the bloke as he's been involved as much as anyone in the Strata/PF threads and since I don't own a PAL Gamecube I can't confirm such testing myself. However I still recommend using the 100Hz option over Progress, regardless of the input if you have capable hardware. I haven't had time myself to tweak the set as such but I might start in the middle of summer. Hopefully things will be a little less hecktic then.

    As for all the consoles taking up a lot of space, I still need to build my damn console case >_< Might re-design it though as it as a retro style with clean lines thus far.
     

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