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PAL Xbox, modded with switch and progressive..

Discussion in 'Xbox Forums' started by museumsteve, May 15, 2003.

  1. museumsteve

    museumsteve
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    This may not interest many, but I've found a little 'funny' today.
    I picked up a UK Green Xbox last week and had it modded with a switch so I can have the option to play UK Live stuff (already have a US one). Now when I set the enigmah to NTSC and then turn off the switch to revert machine back to standard UK, I still get the progressive options which is great news, cos I can now play UK Live stuff in progressive.:)
    Definately didn;t expect that. I assumed/thought that once I switched the machine back to normal PAL mode the progressive options would disappear. Very good news for some, especially me. 'cos tonight I'm playing MotoGP2 Live thanks to local Game.:)
     
  2. NeoBlade

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    With the official Xbox component cable though plugged into a PAL Xbox, it should produce a progressive image anyway... Unless my Tosh Strata does not support PAL-60...

    Still, I've kept mine on NTSC as other uses for the Xbox are more endering than XBL.
     
  3. dj898

    dj898
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    Interesting.
    From understanding if you changed your video output you'll get banned from XLIVE whether you turned off the chip or not.

    dj
     
  4. museumsteve

    museumsteve
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    a component lead into a UK machine has no progressive output, this has been covered time and again. The only way to get progressive is by using the enigmah videomode software.

    As for Live etc, when the machine is switched to normal PAL mode, the mod is invisible to the network and thus is fine. I spent most of last night playing MotoGP2 online.:)
     
  5. NeoBlade

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    Meh so my £2k TV can't even handle PAL-60. Don't mind though as prog.scan makes up for it I suppose.
     
  6. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    museumsteve

    what Mod did you use for this?
     
  7. Jason S

    Jason S
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    dj898,

    asfaik you're correct on that assumption, as I got banned for exactly that, left the box switched to NTSC, switched off the mod and got locked out almost immediately.

    It seems live checks for a number of things

    Serial No
    Is the HDD Locked
    Does the Video setting match the s/n

    Any of these are incorrect for your box and your box is banned - forever. I've read on various forums that it can take a while for the ban to register in some instances.

    The only fix is a new EEPROM flash from an unbanned Xbox, and I'll be happy to take a donation.

    Museumsteve,

    Does the Video state revert to PAL each time you switch off the mod, do you change it back yourself, or have you just been lucky running a PAL box in NTSC mode on XBL??
     
  8. blackfly

    blackfly
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    Am I to understand that the PAL version XBox cannot output Prog Scan even when switched to NTSC mode?
    I was led to believe that the PAL std was prog scan whilst the NTSC std was interlaced, so isn't PAL prog scan anyway?

    Could it be that the HDTV option menu appears according to the type of device plugged into the XBox AV port? Or perhaps to get the HDTV option menu you must have a component output device in the XBox AV port AND the XBox must also be set for NTSC games?

    I have an NTSC XBox (currently waiting for smartXX modchip in post, meanwhile cannot play PAL games) in Scotland using the RGB SCART cable, but I have no HDTV menu at all (or an XBox live menu)
     
  9. simongwynne

    simongwynne
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    The Pal xbox can output prog scan when set to NTSC mode and with the HD pack connected. The options won't appear without the HD pack.

    I'm pretty sure until you bung the xbox live disc in, you won't see any xbox live options.

    I'm curious/worried about the report above (Jason) of being banned for having the PAL xbox in NTSC mode. I've played PGR2 online with the chip turned off, but in NTSC mode, with no apparent problems. I hope I don't get caught out. I heard that some live games are multi region, what would happen if you played a PAL boxed copy on a US machine? Would you expect to be banned? Or is that a different matter altogether?
    I've not used live for a month or so now (house move), so will have to give it a try later to see if they have caught up with me.
     
  10. harrisuk

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    I have been thinking about this and have come to the following conculsion. I have a Modded xbox with HD upgrade and switch to allow live play etc. But I have never tried live with the chip deactivated.

    Why ? If I want to play with the xbox online I just use XBconnect. Better selection of games (ie Halo) and no worries about bans etc. And its free.

    Now I know some of you love live (Gods knows why) and I will certainly be using again when Halo 2 comes out :)

    But my plan is......Buy a seperate xbox for Live. They will definately be sub £90 by the time Halo 2 is available (Already is in US).
     
  11. blackfly

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    I think that if I try to access Live from a Live enabled game the XBox will try to run a dashboard update if a network connection is available. This is what appeared to happen after I tried messing around the menus on Prince of Persia, just before I got my powerline LAN adaptor in FL.

    I already got an XBox in FL last Christmas, just got this NTSC one cheap in Scotland (and hence HAD to mod it to use it here), think I'll save the one in FL for use on Live (although networking XBoxes and PCs through my router would be interesting).

    So no HDTV menu without the HD AV pack, wonder if there is a box out there that connects to the XBox AV port and gives me RGB SCART/Component/VGA/AC3?

    This is probably just a niggling issue of symantics, but PAL is progressive scan by definition of std. I think what you ppl mean is HDTV. Std pal should be something like the equivalent of 625p
    http://www.ntsc-uk.com/tech.php?tech=TvCompatibility
     
  12. Messiah

    Messiah
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    blackfly

    PAL is NOT progressive scan by default. Hence the big delays in PS being ratified for the PAL standard.

    A standard (out of the box) Xbox will deliver a 525i (interlaced) image and the only way to get a PAL PS image is to mod the box, run the Video mode switch disc and set the xbox to NTSC, plug in the HiDef pack and switch back to PAL (again using the video mode switch disc).
     
  13. blackfly

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    My XBox is a US original (110V PSU, swapped for a switchable PSU), therefore NTSC output by default. I just got my smartXX running and switched to PAL so I can play the one game I have here right now. There is no HDTV menu on the dashboard at all, because I don't have an HDTV device plugged into the AV port. Although, on switching to PAL mode I do have the option to run PAL60 (PAL at 60Hz I assume).
    I could play around with an HDTV device on the AV port, but mine is plugged into my XBox back in Florida.

    The PAL std IS progressive scan, at 50Hz. NTSC is interlaced at 60Hz - this is simple fact
    What sources am I expected to present to satisy you on this?

    Do you live in the US?
    Just that I notice prog scan is touted as something of a marketing slogan with HDTV right now.
    I suspect that you are confusing the term prog scan with HDTV.
    PAL has always been prog scan. You do know the difference between prog scan and interlaced right? Are you claiming that PAL is interlaced? Can you clearly define what you mean by the term progressive scan...
     
  14. Messiah

    Messiah
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    Blackfly

    Progressive Scan is a scanning process used in describing how the electronics of display devices work and does not describe the actual signal delivered to the device. A standard PAL signal delivers 25 frames per second.

    If "the PAL std IS progressive scan" why does anyone bother buying specific dvd players capable of delivering progressive scan images. Surely if your statement were true any DVD player would deliver a PS image as indeed would any TV or other display device.

    Quote from Mr.D on this forum

    "DVD is encoded as interlaced video . Any progressive behaviour is by virtue of an additional deinterlacing stage either in your player , display standalone deinterlacer ( sometimes all three unfortunately!)."

    You may wish to read this thread http://www.avforums.com/frame.html?http://www.avforums.com/forums/usercp.php?s=
     
  15. zantarous

    zantarous
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    Blackfly PAL is interlaced the same as NTSC. PAL progressive is a relatively new thing.
     
  16. blackfly

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    btw Messiah - that link went to this thread...

    Ok, done some more browsing and (whilst I couldn't find the initial source stating that NTSC was interlaced and PAL progressive) it seems that there may have been some confusion and (if someone can provide a valid source of definition (eg electronics manufacturer or a webpage of the group responsible for the PAL std)) I will concede that perhaps both NTSC and PAL stds are interlaced.

    It should be noted however, that as well as frame rate differing between NTSC and PAL, there are a higher number of horizontal lines (resolution) in the PAL std. So where it falls in frame rate it makes up in definition. PAL=625/50Hz (25fps) NTSC=525/50Hz(30fps).

    The following document may prove a good read for those interested in the technical details of current and future stds:
    http://www.poynton.com/PDFs/Magic_Numbers.pdf

    Good table defining technical details of stds:
    http://zone.ni.com/devzone/conceptd.nsf/webmain/0C19487AA97D229C8625685E00803830?OpenDocument

    Interesting article on using a monitor in palce of a TV, for console gaming here too:
    http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/forums.asp?s=3&c=13&t=1889

    Does anyone know anything about HD-MAC at all?
     
  17. zantarous

    zantarous
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    :laugh:

    PAL has been around for years mate, it is interlaced, always has been interlaced, there is no need for you to concede, its a fact.:lesson:
     
  18. Messiah

    Messiah
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    No one ever contested the frame rate differences and I do not see what this has to do with your absurd statement that "PAL IS progressive scan".

    Progressive Scan, as has been pointed out here many times (and unfortunately lost on you) is a feature of a player, the display device or an intermediary device (such a scaler).

    When you're wrong, at least just accept you're wrong and don't try and turn your argument in another direction :D

    You may wish to do a bit more reading before posting such comments again on a well rspected forum such as this one with many knowledgeable individuals (I do not include myself in that) who obviously know a lot more than you do.

    Should have been this link
     
  19. Messiah

    Messiah
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    :laugh: :lease: no more statements like this.
     
  20. daveymacca

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    PAL is interlaced, End of Story.

    Blackfly, Get yourself a High Def pak and a compatible Display to use on your modded Xbox,Flick the Enigmah Videomode switch app to NTSC,turn on progressive scan options on the Xbox Dash,Run a game and be blown away by the image clarity and text definition, now flick Enigmah back to PAL and be underwhelmed by the blurry washed out 'interlaced' PAL Image.
     
  21. Akael

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    I just bought a PAL Xbox this morning and am very eager to get the progressive scan options for all the games I bought with it =P Is this Enigmah a software app that can be burnt to cd? Where can I find it?

    Thanks =)
     
  22. harrisuk

    harrisuk
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    With difficulty. You can download it but difficult to get a workable cd that will boot from the images that are available. I need one as well, I have been recommended a place from the forums that will send you one for around £7

    Remember your Pal xbox must be chipped before you can enable HD and us the switch disc.
     
  23. Akael

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    Hmm, I might return this Xbox to the store and order a chipped one online then. It wouldn't be so bad if the PAL60 component picture was decent but it's not at all =(

    Can you e-mail me at john.holdway@btopenworld.com with a decent mod site and the place that does the CD? Thanks =)
     
  24. harrisuk

    harrisuk
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    I got my chipped at a local computer fair. They also installed a 120 gig 7200 spin hard disk and all the fancy boot menus, loader software xb media player for streaming video / music files over the network etc etc etc. It has a switch for xb live play but I dont use xb live any more anyway (Xbconnect is better and free)

    As for the boot cd I dont have the web address off hand do a search on the forums for region switch disc xbox or something to that effect and you will find the info you require.

    Im not quite ready to do my final install yet anyway which is why I havent ordered one my self yet.
     
  25. blackfly

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    Akael - are your games PAL designation?
    Would PAL games work through the high def pack of a non modded box, and would the PAL versions support the prog scan features in the software on the disc (does it say 480P or 720i etc on the back of the box)?
     
  26. harrisuk

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    Man I said this should have been a sticky. This has been covered on many many many occasions. Not being nasty but you chaps need to start using the search function. Otherwise we are just rewriting the same stuff over and over again.:lesson:

    Just for the record there is a thread which provides a link to a site which details all the high def games available for the xbox including supported resolutions.

    There are loads of threads which will tell you the score as regards xbox HD and pal xboxes (Inlcuding this one !) :rolleyes:
     
  27. DylanM

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    I own a PAL xbox and live in Ireland, HDTV is not really available here yet but you can get a number of sets that support progressive scan. My xbox is not modified to enable NTSC.
    I use the advanced scart cable normally but also have a high definition AV cable too (have no real use for it yet), but...
    If i connect up the AV cable and switch it to component but leave the s-video cable connected, i can see the dashboard in black and white... anyway, i went into the video options and everything looked to be the same, but when i went into the PAL 60 option i got a new message which was, does your tv set support 480p?

    This would lead me to believe that you dont need NTSC enabled to get progressive scan AND pal does not have PS as standard, it may have a slightly higher resolution than NTSC but is not PS.
    Someone told me ages ago that NTSC was better for some reason? If anyone can shed anymore light on the subject feel free to e-mail me. Cheers!
     

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