PAL Video Speed-Up and Soundtrack Key Signatures

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by Dimmy, Jul 9, 2003.

  1. Dimmy

    Dimmy
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2003
    Messages:
    2,399
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    39
    Location:
    England
    Ratings:
    +0
    Since PAL video playback speed is increased by 4% I guess I'm right in assuming that this is also true of the soundtrack to DVDs??

    Is this why whenever there's a song in the background in movies it's key signature is moved up by one semi-tone???
     
  2. Dutch

    Dutch
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2002
    Messages:
    2,597
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    North Yorkshire
    Ratings:
    +282
    Got it in one! ;)

    Steve
     
  3. Dimmy

    Dimmy
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2003
    Messages:
    2,399
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    39
    Location:
    England
    Ratings:
    +0
    I was just wondering because it's strange when you transcript music on a DVD then listen to the CD and realise you're in the wrong key.....

    Problem solved now (although for some reason it's very often the case that songs sound better when they're sped up just that little bit).
     
  4. StooMonster

    StooMonster
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    4,970
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +314
    And if your watching a R1 disc of PAL material, the sound will be 4% slower.

    StooMonster
     
  5. Kevo

    Kevo
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2001
    Messages:
    5,364
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +146
    Never noticed to be honest.
     
  6. Kevo

    Kevo
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2001
    Messages:
    5,364
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +146
    Just curious to know whether anyone noticed this '4% speed up' back in the video days or even before that when just watching films on TV.
     
  7. Urotsukidoji

    Urotsukidoji
    Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2003
    Messages:
    262
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Location:
    Greenwich, London
    Ratings:
    +0
    Having watched TV all their life, people will be more used to the speed up than the original. I really cant understand why it bothers some people.
     
  8. StooMonster

    StooMonster
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    4,970
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +314
    Or any quality American television shows since the 1960s ... they are filmed at 24fps too and therefore 4% faster too. Guess we didn't know any better for the last thirty years.

    I can see NTSC's 3:2 pulldown of 24fps and that makes my eyes judder.

    I guess that it's what ever you are used to when you grow up, my American friends don't notice 3:2 judder but can notice 4% speed up, whereas people here in UK seem to be the other way round.

    I also can't say that any Americans I know have complained about British television shows being 4% slower on their NTSC.

    StooMonster
     
  9. StooMonster

    StooMonster
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    4,970
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +314
    Saying that, I just saw trailer for "Charlies Angels: Full Throttle" on television and because the Prodigy tune is so familiar to me I can really hear the speed up, it does sound messed up.

    StooMonster
     
  10. cybersoga

    cybersoga
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2002
    Messages:
    1,628
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +25
    When DJ's play Prodigy records they usually pitch it up by at least 4% :)
     
  11. StooMonster

    StooMonster
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    4,970
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +314
    LOL. Guess it depends on how many BPM is their thing. One may not notice speed of music in clubs for various reasons. :devil:

    Familiar to me means the number of times I've played the CDs. Point was I could hear that is was faster i.e. movies trailer played on PAL television.

    StooMonster
     
  12. domfjbrown

    domfjbrown
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Yep - I noticed this back in 1991 when I taped Weird Science off the telly - I could hear "Tesla girls" by OMD playing quietly in the mall scene and thought it sounded wrong. Since I'd just got a CD player and had The Best of OMD - I confirmed it to myself. I didn't find out WHY it was fast until about 5 years later though - d'oh!

    I can see film flicker in the cinema quite clearly a lot of the time - and even 60 Hz telly looks badly interlaced to me... NTSC 3:2 pulldown is HORRIBLE...

    Why don't film studios pitchshift the audio down or up depending on need, and resample NTSC picture footage so that there's no pulldown at all?
     
  13. digitalsafari

    digitalsafari
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    711
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    46
    Location:
    Devon
    Ratings:
    +108
    I am a DVD Production Supervisor amongst other things and we will digitally pitch correct the audio to avoid the Pinky and Perky sound and to make sure you get the same amount of bass the US version has.

    Of course the cheap productions don't bother.
     
  14. AOD

    AOD
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2001
    Messages:
    710
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +4
    There was one instance some years back where episodes of Star Trek The Next Generation sounded as though the actors had been on Helium.

    From what I remember it was at the start of a particular series, but can't recall if it was the episodes screened on BBC2 or the VHS videos. This speedup would I guess account for that.
     
  15. Marcus Wood

    Marcus Wood
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2002
    Messages:
    376
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +4
    I have a PAL (Italian) DVD of Evita, and when the movie was shown on BBC1 a few weeks ago I recorded it on Sky+ to compare the two soundtracks for sound quality (the DVD is DTS).

    I was surprised to find that the BBC version had been corrected for pitch. The DVD hadn't and I much preferred the BBC version. Switching back and forth between the two the difference was immediately noticeable. Madonna has quite a low pitched voice for a woman (mezzo soprano?) and after listening to the TV version the DVD just sounded wrong.

    I had a software DVD player on my PC a while back (can't remember which) which had a facility called PAL Truspeed that allowed you to slow PAL discs to the correct speed. Unfortunately it didn't work very reliably, but I'm sure that will become a more common feature on PCs in the future.
     
  16. StooMonster

    StooMonster
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    4,970
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +314
    Do you pitch shift movies and television?

    Although there's no pleasing some people who claim they can hear pitch shifting too! And that's why they would never consider buying a R2 disc. :confused:

    StooMonster
     

Share This Page

Loading...