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PAL progressive ratification

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by ajb, Sep 3, 2002.

  1. ajb

    ajb
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    Hi all

    With the speculation regarding the Philips 963SA being PAL prog out of the box, and people saying that PAL prog will be confirmed as a legit standard by the DVD forum industry body sometime in September, I started digging.

    After not long, I found www.dvdforum.org and on there, the European meeting that is discussing PAL prog is not till 30 October. Wouldn't hold your breath on getting a 963SA before then.....

    Regards
    Andrew
     
  2. ian_guinan

    ian_guinan
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    Thanks! Thats what I like to see..hard facts vs. rumour. Why didn't we all think of looking this one up? Still be interesting to see what comes out of it though.

    Hope John Dawson from Arcam is going and can let us know what transpires.

    Regards,
    Ian Guinan
     
  3. jmack

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    ajb did you findout if our plasma will except a pal progressive signal ? i saw you posted it on avs forums,
    i did email toshiba but no reply yet
     
  4. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Don't hold your breath, it ratification happens within 6 months I will be very surprized.:(
     
  5. ajb

    ajb
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    Hi all

    Thanks for the kind words above.

    This all impacts on my dvd player of choice. I was going for the Philips 962sa from hivizone, until all the speculation about the imminent release of the 963sa started. Now, I don't think the 963sa will be here before next year in a PAL prog form anyway. Hivizone have only got 1 or 2 left of the 962sa, so what on earth am I to do... I know... Persuade Messiah to sell me his! Please...

    jmack> Yes, I have been told that the Toshiba 42WP16 accepts both NTSC and PAL prog scan to amazing effect. Thats why I want to change DVD player. Would like an Arcam FMJ DV27 or a Diva DV88p but they are a tad expensive for me...

    Any thoughts from the rest of you about a multi region PAL and NTSC prog scan DVD player to match my plasma?

    Regards
    Andrew
     
  6. jmack

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    ajb hivizone have 1 less now just put an order in ?
    i could not wait any longer?
    just hope it lives up to the hype
     
  7. ajb

    ajb
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    Argh!

    jmack you jammy swine! First you copy my plasma and now you've got the dvd player I want. Never mind hey. Let me know how you get on with it and what the picture is like.

    Where are you in the country anyway? Perhaps I could have a sneaky look at the player when it arrives?

    Best of luck you lucky devil
    Andrew
     
  8. jmack

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    i`m in cardiff as the only football team in wales is ha ha ha, your most welcome to view it when it comes, hivizone have sent me 2 emails allready 1 confirm, 2 to check my card details
     
  9. ajb

    ajb
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    Hello again

    Lets not get into football here Mr Cardiff supporter. A lot of your boys are very naughty and its not very nice. From your postings here I guess you are a very nice man though. How are Cardiff doing in the league this year? Don't really follow Wrexham much now though. Try to follow Real Madrid instead... Bit of a step up!

    To be honest, if it wasn't for the $100 shipping, I would probably get one of the 962sa myself. Never mind. Perhaps Messiah will let me have his after all.

    Cheers
    Andrew
     
  10. ajb

    ajb
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    Hi

    Over on avsforum, Philips are quoted as saying that the 963sa will not be out till next year. Well, thats just great, isn't it................

    Regards
    Andrew
     
  11. jonny m

    jonny m
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    bugger if true

    the phillips rep hifibitz was in contact with said end oct for uk release and I think I read somewhere that the 963 european releases will come in ahead of the usa.

    ah well maybe this time next year boys? :confused: :confused:
     
  12. WSquared

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    Well, www.dvdlibrary.co.uk say that they have the 963sa instock as of a few days ago. I phoned them.
    http://www.dvdlibrary.co.uk/dvd_players.htm

    I sent them an email with the instructions on how to hack the 962sa for both PAL-P and multiregion. I requested their engineers to see if these same hacks were successful. I have not had a reply to this though.

    On their web-site, the player is incorrectly placed in the DVD-A+SACD section.

    Anybody want to order one and see what you get?

    edit-> I put this in the other thread already. dvdlibrary sent me an email saying they don't have the 963sa in stock and now aren't expecting them this month. The lady on the phone was wrong.
     
  13. jmack

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    ajb got this email from toshiba today they would not answer the if it will do pal


    Dear Mr Mackie,

    Thank you for your recent enquiry. Please find the information that you
    requested as follows:

    Re: Your telephone conversation earlier today with Kevin Gannon.

    The 42PW16B will automatically detect the signal format through the
    component video input fed to it with no need to specify the signal.

    The 42PW16B will accept any progressive input from an NTSC disc, however
    there is no agreed standard for progressive PAL yet.

    If you have any further queries or would like to go through your query with
    an advisor you can contact us on 0115 9766958,
     
  14. ajb

    ajb
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    Hi

    Cheers for that jmack. Nobody is officially going to say anything in the near future are they? Mr Dawson of Arcam is the most likely to, but I don't think I can afford one of his machines unfortunately. Probably a good investment for those that can!

    As for video standards, here's the basic outputs of DVD players:

    - NTSC 525i 60Hz (interlaced)
    - NTSC 480p 60Hz (progressive)
    - PAL 625i 50Hz (interlaced)
    - PAL 576p 50Hz (progressive)

    Then, if you look at the Toshiba's specs on the Ivojo website, you will see that it takes both progressive standards. Proof I hope that the Toshiba needs a NTSC and PAL progressive input for the absolute best picture quality.

    Hope this helps
    Andrew
     
  15. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    There is a way around this no comment on PAL DVD player output thing. Tell them you are using a interlaced output to feed an external scaler / de-interlacer. This then output 576p output. This is identiacl to PS DVD player but is a legal and accepted format. An IScan pro is a suitable example. They then might be able to answer the question directly. :D
     
  16. jmack

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    ajb there is now a sign on the hivizone website saying all sold out please wait for the 963 in october
     
  17. jonny m

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    now thats interesting...

    j
     
  18. ajb

    ajb
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    Hi

    Yes, I know Philips are quoting October... even some guy from Hong Kong replied to a thread over at avsforum saying October for the 963. I am not convinced though till I actually see it...

    Cheers
    Andrew
     
  19. ajb

    ajb
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    Hi guys

    PAL PROGRESSIVE OFFICIALLY RATIFIED

    Source: http://www.warren-news.com/currentnewscedaily.htm

    "Videophiles in U.K. and Europe soon will be able to use their high-end TVs and monitors to view progressively scanned images with component-video output from DVD players, now that Macrovision copy protection on such output is available for PAL video standard used there. Progressive-scan component video was announced for NTSC countries by Toshiba in 1998, and players arrived in U.S. year later after copy protection issues were settled..."

    German source: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/data/nij-13.09.02-000/ [Babelfish translation follows]

    "After a Hickhack of several years around the integration of the copy protection macro vision into the PAL progressive standard now the first official PAL DVD Player with expenditure for frame might appear obvious.

    Already in the year 1998 Toshiba DVD Player announced, which should supply videos not in half but frames (over a similar component exit) at appropriate televisions and projectors; actually the first appropriate devices appeared a little later -- however mind you on the US-American and the Japanese market with expenditure for progressive only in the television standard used there the responsible DVD CoPy control Association ( DVD CCA) bricked NTSC. with the European standard PAL. The reason for this lay in the fact that the progressive variant of the copy protection macro vision had been officially adopted only for NTSC, not however for PAL. Technically possible however already was it -- just as de-energising some DVD Player, which are to actually control only NT-sports club-progressive, after a small interference in addition, PAL DVDs in frames present.

    Still in July the European agency of the company Macrovision explained opposite heise on-line that the appropriate copy protection procedure of the responsible DVD CoPy control Association (DVD CCA) would be present already for a long time for examination, a final decision however probably only 2003 is met. To a report of the Consumer Electronics DAILY one from the house Warren Communication News it went now however nevertheless faster: Thus macro vision is to have sent to all DVD Player manufacturers a circular now, into the enterprise explained that one explains oneself in agreement with the sales of PAL progressive devices, if these send macro vision car Gain control spurious signal over the component exit. DVD manufacturer Arcam quit thereupon today the PAL progressive model DVD88Plus for the British market on, some further devices might follow.

    It is amazing that the developer of the copy protection seems to have the final say in this affair after this representation and for this does not lead the DVD CCA. the Consumer electronics DAILY one -- which received like heise on-line so far still no confirmation official according to own data from macro vision -- out that the DVD CCA had explained already unofficially its agreement if itself DVD Player manufacturer, copy protection developer and Hollywood unite.

    Owners of the Denon DVD Player Dvd-2800mkii might wait now strained for a PAL progressive Patch, which is to be brought in simply over CD Rome. A firm speaker had nevertheless explained heise on-line in July opposite that Denon wanted to actually offer this software after the official PAL progressive start. The Denon representative doubted however that the DVD CCA will have already struggled through itself up to the autumn to the decision necessary for it."

    Kind regards
    Andrew
     
  20. Ricky27

    Ricky27
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    Well thats great news,cant wait now.
    Just hope Toshiba can upgrade my 510 soon.
     
  21. They

    They
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    This just in from Macrovision:

    "Yes, there has been a change but it is not as official as we would like. The DVD CCA has not been able to change its CSS Procedural Specification and shows no sign of doing so in the immediate future. In the interest of protecting the copy protection eco system and recognizing significant pressure for 625p for the 2002 Christmas shopping season, we have decided that we will no longer fail DVD players which are presented for certification just because they include 625p component outputs. If a player is presented for testing which is compliant for our interlaced video specification and 525p if present, and it also has 625p, we will now certify for interlaced and 525p analog outputs and add comment to the certificate to the effect "...this player also has 625p output which is copy protected in accordance with Macrovision's proposed specification."
     
  22. Guest

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    Now that is great news

    but what happens to us lot who has just bought the tosh ZD26P which does not accept pal progressive ... only NTSC progressive


    Anybody want to join me to write a petition to toshiba so that they can sort out an upgrade....
     
  23. laurie

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    Hmmmm would be interesting to see the picture difference on a PAL progressive with Macrovision ON as to one without Macrovision that has been disabled by a HACK..I was under the impression that most progressive hacks were not worth doing unless you were able to disable it as it has an effect on the picture quality I stand to be corrected, this is why I choose the Denon 2800 for that reason I for one hope this is not the case and has no effect on the picture
    cheers Laurie
     

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