PAL / NTSC or AUTO

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by dUnKle, Nov 25, 2000.

  1. dUnKle

    dUnKle
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    On the rear of my Pioneer 919E I have this little switch which allows the video output to be sent in any of the 3 above positions.

    Can anyone tell me why this is and which is the best one to use
     
  2. bradavon

    bradavon
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    It is for conversion between PAL (Europe/UK, Asia (except Japan) and NTSC (America & Japan).

    Basiclly it is the way the single is sent to your TV. IF your TV can handle NTSC use Auto, as that way you are getting Pal DVD's(European Region 2) in Pal and NTSC DVD's (Region 1 and Region 2 Japan) in Pure NTSC (No conerversion, better quality, if your TV can handle it).

    IF your TV can't handle NTSC (you will get a black and white picture) use PAL that way the signal is converted to PAL before being displayed on your TV (which WILL work on your TV).

    The setting is for watching Region 1 and Region 2 Japanese DVD's (and any other countrey that uses NTSC).

    I would personally leave it on Auto, whatch a Region 1 disc if it plays fine, leave it otherwise change it to PAL.

    The NTSC option is for making sure that all Region 1 and Region 2 Japanese DVD's are shown in NTSC (will stop your Region 2 DVD's working though).

    Hope this helps

    Alex
     
  3. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    This is nonsense.
    There is absolutely no reason to use an NTSC colour signal over a PAL one for dvd. There is no conversion involved the colour signal is generated directly from the yuv info on the disc (its not a conversion ). A PAL colour signal resolves more chromaticity values than the equivalent NTSC one.

    I'm sick to death reading this in HCC and others. There is no advantage to using "pure" NTSC.

    My advice if you must use a composite type signal from dvd (you should use RGB or component anyway!) stick with a PAL colour signal regardless. Its also a benefit from a set-up point of view.

    I've posted in detail about this issue in the past.
     
  4. bradavon

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    Clearly you don't have a clue Mr. D. Why would a signal that was originally NTSC and then converted to PAL be better than a signal that stays as NTSC.

    I think HCC no what they are talking about. Anyway who mentioned anything about "Composite" I was just talking about converting between different standards.

    How come every DVD magazine complies with what I said?
     
  5. dUnKle

    dUnKle
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    Heads down and prepare for the matress to come out of the cot [​IMG]
     
  6. ptmbradley

    ptmbradley
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    Must admit, I was surprised to read Mr D's comments as it goes against anything I've ever heard before. Even the instruction manual to my DVD player says to leave the switch on the auto position for a pure signal. [​IMG]
     
  7. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    Possibly because thats not what happens!
    Perhaps you shouldn't just automatically believe everything by virtue of the fact its in print!

    ---------------------------------------------
    Posted yonks ago


    I know we've discussed this before but this issue has never adequately been resolved in my book.

    Here is my take on things. DVD stores picture info in yuv colourspace (4:2:2 component although this is downsampled by virtue of MPEG2 compression to 4:2:0 or 4:1:1 at any given point but for purposes of this arguement thats irrelevant as even downsampled this still represents a greater colourspace than either a PAL or NTSC colour signal can represent)

    Lets restrict ourselves to the instances where a composite colour carrier is relevant ie. with a composite or s-video signal

    Now its oft quoted in HCC that "pure" NTSC from region1 material offers better quality than the equivalent PAL60 signal from the same material. Why should this be so?

    Remember the colourspace on dvd is greater than either type of carrier can adequately resolve (one reason why RGB and component are superior signal types) Now when a player is required to generate a given colour frequency it does it directly from this yuv colourspace. Think of having a bag full of marbles but you can't fit them all into one hand when you reach in and grab them thats your composite colour footprint. Its a smaller subsample of the total available.

    Regardless of the source material : region2 625/50 region1 525/60 this is how the colour frequency is generated. Unlike analogue formats with dvd when a decision is taken to generate either colour frequency (PAL or NTSC) there is no intermediate "native" stage. ie with PAL60 the PAL is derived directly from the yuv info not from an initial smaller NTSC subsample. With analogue formats such as laserdisc and vhs this isn't the case. The material is already limited to its native format so when PAL60 is generated from these formats it is in effect a scaled up version of the NTSC colour footprint with the additional noisy/lossy nature of the analogue conversion its fair to say this conversion is a trade off compared with watching these formats in their "native" format ie: "pure" NTSC.

    So does pure NTSC represent a quality gain compared with PAL60 from dvd? The answer on the whole has to be no.

    A PAL colour signal has a number of advantages over the equivalent NTSC one not leastly its larger colour footprint. Remember the marbles? The PAL color footprint would represent a larger handful than the NTSC one hence more marbles more colour values. Additionally there is the issue of black set-uplevel which is covered well in the Joe Kane interview in this months HCC (basically PAL set-up at 0IRE is correct for both PAL and NTSC (and RGB and component) whilst the NTSC set-up of 7.5IRE is only correct for NTSC: no prizes for guessing what one is best to calibrate to!) Most Euro players from what I can gather default to 0IRE regardless even with NTSC. If they do set-up for 7.5IRE with NTSC then its a potential pain in the ass as you have two different set-ups to cal for instead of one and your TV may only memorise settings for one selection only.

    There is one potential issue with utilising a PAL60 signal in a composite path. Now I may get a bit off track here in the specifics as I'm primarily a digital guy when it comes to video but I'm sure someone out there can set me straight on the specifics.

    The colour frequency has a relationship with the horizontal scan frequency.

    If the two are mismatched in the case of a PAL 525/60 signal there could be problems with high frequency patterning over small detail (anyone anyone at all jump in).

    However on tests I've done with Pioneer and Panasonic players and a selection of TVs from domestic to broadcast monitors this hasn't been anissue. I'm assuming that the combfilter type stages in modern sets are able to cope or fudge this issue somehow??? The only obvious difference with the two colour signals was a fairly obvious improvement in colour detail with the PAL signal over the NTSC one.

    Now even if this issue is a real problem it will only be relevant with a composite signal and lets face it who'd voluntarily use composite from a dvd player? certainly not someone whose bothered by PAL/NTSC colour frequency issues.

    So why do I keep seeing information to the effect that Pure NTSC is better than PAL60 from a given dvd player in HCC in numerous player reviews (this month included) ?
    If I'm completely wrong about this could someone explain why and I'll be willing to concede.

    If I am right about this could HCC (and others) stop giving players with PAL colour frequency only selection a bum wrap?
     
  8. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    I'd have thought blind acceptance of every fact you read in something thats costs you three quid in the newsagents is more indicative of infantilism than anything else.
    But thanks for the smiley.
     
  9. Reiner

    Reiner
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    I guess the short version would be: there is no NTSC or PAL information on the DVD as Mr. D correctly says , the actual video ouput is generated by the player from the component information on the disc.

    Which leaves the question what is the switch used for?
    I speculate you can force it to either one and AUTO would choose according to the initial "data" (625/50 would give PAL and 525/60 would give NTSC).
     

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