Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by The Nightfly, Jan 2, 2005.
... and how it compares to the HT1000
Well, now that you ask...
I'm just getting used to it, but these are my initial findings - more like a babble than a review, but here goes...
It's a bit of a mixed bag in some respects - I had the Hoya FL-Day filter on the HT1000 and that produced what I felt was a very film like image with good black levels and approx 2000:1 contrast ratio when measured with a light meter at D65 (eco mode and iris closed). The NEC also has some very good firmare for image processing which means no unwanted image or motion artefacts etc. The image is also a bit dimmer (84inch wide visible screen) but that masks unwanted image noise and mpg artefacts etc. Overall, an image with nothing to pull me out of the movie. Not quite as good as a Sim2, but with the filter, it's getting there.
The H77 obviously has better resolution so shows Hi Def material in greater detail than the HT1000 which was no slouch - DVD resolution is now the limiting factor for projectors, and xga is capable of noticably showing some of this extra detailfrom HD sources.
The H77 has around 2300:1 contrast out of the box at D65. As is usual for UHP lamps, the red is deficient, with blue being around 20% higher IIRC and green about 5% higher (than red). Some PJs compensate for this by having larger red segments in the colour wheel. By maxing out the RGB contrasts individualy at 100ire (full white) until the colour would not increase any further (but the adjuster would), I could get about 2800:1 CR without clipping the colours (only blue and green increased, red was at its max at the 0 postion). Of course the colour temp is now too high and too blue, so it needs to be balanced. I calculated that an 81b filter would probably be the best filter to help balance the colours opticaly, but by pure luck I had an 81a filter handy. By placing this in front of the lens I only needed to reduce the blue and green a little less than I needed to without it, but managed to achieve around 2600:1 CR at D65.
Curently the black level of the H77 is not as good as the NEC but is pretty close, probably because the lamp is still new, so this will change for the better. Some H77s suffer from posterisation (or colour banding), and my model did have this before it had the firmware change. It was greatly reduced after the new firmware but still slightly visible. However, when using chapter 15 of U571, I found that I didn't have it on my set-up at home. I can't explain why it appeared slightly on one particular HTPC (where I saw it demo'd) with the same graphics card as mine, but not show it on my set-up. That's a bit of a baffler...
Tonight when watching Collateral, I did notice a fleeting artefact in close moving panning shots - it only happened about 3 times and was only for a second or less, but I'm not sure if this is the pj or the source. I'll have to try and play the same scenes again on a CRT to see if I can see it again. It's not a major issue though - it's like a slight ripple effect following the item being viewed during panning. I don't think it was DLP dithering some mention for motion as I've never seen it before.
Colours look good even as standard and it's pretty quiet, but if you want it ceiling mounted, then you will have to have it on a pole from the ceiling. I have a 7ft ceiling, and the pj is on a 13ins pole to fit the image onto my screen which is 19ins from the ceiling. Being nearer to my head then the HT1000 was, the noise levels are about the same overall. The lens shift is at it's maximum and doesn't show any negative signs that I can see when compared to being in the center of its range, so that's pretty good - I have heard that some pjs show chromatic aberation or some other image distortion when at the extremes of their lens shift. I'm using an MDF 'plate' and a standard speaker bracket the same as I used for my HT1000, except of course I didn't have to shorten it. There's a pic on my website alongside the DIY HT1000 mount if anyone's interested.
The NEC had a huge amount of image options such as image manipulation and colour/contrast/gamma tweaking, but in comparison the H77 has only a few, so you can see where cost cutting has been made.
Overall the H77 (currently) isn't a huge leap ahead of my Ht1000 which IMHO is still a fantastic pj and still more than comparable to many newer models. Even the Mistubishi HC9000 with a claimed 4000:1 contrast is only putting out 1900:1 when calibrated, or 2200:1 when using the clear segment of the colour wheel (cinerich), so the HT1000 is still a competative pj IMHO.
I feel the extra brightness, resolution and contrast is apparant on the H77, so that's where it is ahead of the HT1000. Where it loses is black level, flexibility and a slightly less film-like image with some noise and occasional artefacts. It's still early days though, and I still need to spend a bit more time watching movies, but now that Christmas and New Year are out of the way I can do that, so I may have some further observations to make. The H77 with an iris and slightly better processing would be a killer machine IMHO.
I've got a H77 on loan for two weeks.
Watched Collateral tonight aswell ! can't say I noticed any artefacts.
I've got it connected to my 3910 dvd projecting an 8ft wide image - well impressed with the picture !
I'm supposed to be getting a shot of a lumagen scaler to see what difference it makes.
I think I'll end up buying the H77 to project a 3 - 3.5mtr wide image from approx. 7mtrs. Tested it out, certainly bright enough for me
I love my H77 .. but can't write about it as eruditely as Mr. Lightfoot.
Many thanks for taking the time to respond so thoroughly and frankly. What would you say is your viewing distance to screen width ratio ?
It's most interesting that you have been watching Collateral recently. I think this is going to be the new reference DVD for punishingly challenging the replay chain. It was shot using HD video cameras using ground breaking production techniques to push the boundaries of low light level film making. (See Building Collateral for an article about the filming and post-production.)
I've been doing some back-to-back comparisons between my HT1100 projector and a 42" Panasonic plasma (42PW7B) using this DVD. The plasma handles those prolonged dark scenes really well, maintaining a smooth, solid, almost glossy image with plenty of detail and colour. Whereas the projected image looks rather flat, noisy and desaturated. Do you notice much noise in the image with the H77 with this DVD ?
It's prompted me to experiment with the image size from the projector to try and counteract the noise and desaturation effect noticed in these low ambient light scenes. Using the zoom, I've reduced the image down to the smallest I can make it from the projector's fixed position. The image is now down to about 60" across which works out at a viewing distance to screen width ratio of approx 2:1 - previously it was about 1.6:1. This improves things tremendously by helping to put some of the saturation and gloss back into the colours and gives a good compromise between the 'cinematic' effect of a projected image and the punch and clarity of the plasma.
I'm seeing quite a bit of noise in the picture at a viewing ratio of 1.6:1. I think the effect is a bit like looking too closely at a newspaper photograph. Get too close and you don't see shades of gray, you see black dots at varying densities. Reducing the image size down to a ratio of 2:1 helps smooth the noise into solid colour. Reduce the image size even further like when viewing on the plasma (viewing ratio 3:1) and the noise is virtually gone and replaced with a smooth solid image with a richer colour palette restored.
I'm finding this area of low ambient light imaging to be a major limiting factor in getting a satisfactory image larger than about 2:1 viewing ratio. How do you think the H77 fares in this respect on this DVD ?
Thanks for the kind words Kragorn.
I'm sitting about 1.85 times screen width away which was where I was for the HT1000. Sitting too close will mean you start to see things you probably don't want to, so 2x screen width is about right and is about what is normaly recommended by SMPTE and THX. If you can get to 1.85 then you should be seeing the same as me, though you will have a brighter image (due to my filter, and assuming similar screen size).
Yes, I did find the movie quite noisy, the opening in particular, though it seemed to get less noisy as the movie progressed. I think the filter helps a little as big bright images will show up noise and artefacts more. Have you set your brightness and contrast with Avia or DVE? That might help a tad. You can use the blue glasses to set saturation too.
I think the colours looked pretty natural, but I have calibrated the pj so I think we're seeing it as the director intended (gamma 2 and CT 2 is pretty close to D65 I think, using film setting). The smaller you go the more saturated it will look though. What gamma and colour temp setting are you using? CT 1 is warmer than 2 or 3, so that might help improve it for you. Using Gamma 1 will help saturation a bit more at the expense of shadow detail, as it will darken the image down a little. Experiment to see what suits you better. Having a calibrated image is one thing, but having it how you like it is more important, so that's what you should aim for. No point in having a technically correct image that you hate when you can adjust it to your own liking.
I did think the pj did quite well with the dark scenes, the cab scenes in particular - good background detail in the back seats as well as good facial detail on Jamie Foxx's face. I wasn't able to compare it to the HT1000 though. Having 30% more contrast helped here I think.
The one area where I think The HT1000 is ahead of the H77 is the way it deals with artefacts and noise - there aren't any, though this in part is down to the FL-Day filter I fitted (making the image dimmer). I hate seeing things which shouldn't be there and it pulls me out of the movie. The H77 tends to have more bright area noise and is not as good with the image processing in comparison IMHO, but the plus points of course are the extra resolution and contrast. The brightness is a double edged sword - it's nice to have a brighter image, but it tends to bring out noise etc. It does seem to deal with dark area noise OK though, and I think this is down to the dark green segments of the colour wheel.
You might find a Hoya HMC ND2 filter will dull the image enough to subdue the noise to an acceptable level for a closer viewing distance, and when the lamp gets older and dims, you can remove it again to get back the brightness. It might not be your cup of tea if you prefer the bright image you already have though. I'm going to try it I think and see how it looks. If I can get an ND1 instead, that might be a better compromise.
Ambient light will definitely have a detrimental effect on contrast and wash out the image. Grey screens help here, so if ambient is always going to be a factor of your viewing conditions, then you might have to consider one. I think a Da-Lite with 1.1 gain will be a good option. A Firehawk will be the best option but is very expensive. My screen is 1.2 gain (upgraded from BO cloth when I got the HT1000), and I think high gain screens will only make things worse with this pj. Of course, that's just my opinion based on my viewing preferences.
Hi Def looks very good indeed on the H77, but then so it should. DVDs are inferior and I think the H77 will show up any defects etc that may be on the disk. Like you I prefer a solid image without noise etc, so I think we're both after the same result. What size screen do you have? Mine is 7ft wide (viewable) so if yours is similar, then any tweaks I apply to my set-up might work for yours. I have a light controlled room and no ambient though, so my settings will obviously work better for me than for ambient conditions.
I'll probably have another look at the pj today, and if I do, is there anything you'd like me to look out for, watch or try out?
Thanks again for that. My setup is initially calibrated simply using the THX optimode that you find on quite a few disks. Beyond that I tend to tweak contrast and brightness on occasion, usually directly following a movie and going back to one or two scenes where I think I may have spotted something. After that I'll leave it for several disks and maybe tweak again. So as you see, a fairly itterative process. The biggest difficulty is trying to get the balance right between Brightness and Gamma. I find that the Gamma adjustment in both the projector and in TheaterTek just doesn't have a fine enough granularity.
I think the HT1100 has different menu options for picture settings compared to the HT1000. I've got Gamma set to "Natural" (options are "Dynamic", "Natural" or "Black Detail") and colur temperature is set to "6500" (on a slider from "5000" to "10500"). This is on the DVI input, not tried component. I'm sure though that we are using the same screen material - Ellie Matt White, 1.2 gain. I have mine stapled to the wall and use a masking system constructed from hardboard panels wrapped in black velvet. The room is light controlled so I think we have very similar viewing conditions.
I'm coming to the conclusion that the noise (grainy, swirly patterns) I'm seeing is something inherent in the limitations of the DVD format itself - if I freeze the DVD the noise freezes also. Either that or I need to improve on TheaterTek - I'm using verson 2.0, Radeon 9600, outputting via DVI. It's probably a bit of both.
I was already running the projector in eco mode and iris fully closed. Reducing the image size does of course increase the brightness and although contrast remains constant I think I'm seeing an increase in 'apparent' contrast as to me, the highlights look brighter to a greater degree than the black level has increased. This helps to maintain a bit of gloss to the image in lower light level scenes.
I think I'm going to remask the screen at this smaller size - i.e 60" width, 2:1 viewing ratio. I'm actually finding this smaller size more immersive than the larger screen size I was using previously. The smaller image has more of that knack of getting out of the way and I slip into the film instead of being distracted by things that aren't quite right.
Have you tried reducing the image size down even further on the H77 ? Do you see a degree of improvement in noise or is it basically an image of the same quality only smaller ? I suppose there must be a point where reducing the image begins to defeat the object of owing a projector in the first place but if I'm on the right track here I'm beginning to conclude that an optimum balance is determined mainly by the DVD format itself and using moderately good replay equipment results in about a 2:1 viewing ratio.
Sounds like we've got identical systems - same HTPC (using DVI), pj and screen material, so we're probably seeing the same things too.
THX Optimode tends to be more disk dependant than a blanket calibration disk such as Avia, but it should have you in the ball-park so to speak. Your settings shouldn't be way out to cause any real problems.
I do think the H77 tends to bring out the noise more than the NEC did, so there's not much that can be done about that directly. I'm using PowerDVD 6, though 4 and 5 seem to have the same image quality, only more unnecessary gadgets and options with the higher number versions. I did find that it was a good compromise between TT and WinDVD which seemed to enhance the noise a bit more. I don't think PDVD is less detailed, but it does seem to be less noisy and gives good solid backgrounds etc which don't seem alive as they did with WinDVD or TT.
I would think that if I made the image smaller, the noise would become less visible as it would start to go beyond the eyes ability to see it compared to when larger. I can live with my screen size and seating distance as it is though, as the filter I'm using is probably reducing the lumens just enough to make the noise less obvious. I'll have to try to measure the difference one day. I think 60ins is a good size if that equates to 2x for seating distance, and you seem to find it an improvement, so you're going in the right direction.
I think the problem is that the NEC is such a good projector to start with, it takes quite a lot to substantially improve upon it. The H77 is 30% better with contrast and almost 60% better with resolution (in 16:9 mode), and is somewhat brighter, but is a little noisy image wise - I think this is part and parcel of higher resolution and low res DVD as you say, so if the pj can show more detail, it's probably going to show more artefacts too.
Collateral has some image problems I pointed out in another thread. I would hesitate to call it reference quality material.
The main issue is that the low light level shots have the shutter wide open to let in enough light. The result is that rapid motion ( in Collateral's case its not even that rapid) gets very blurred and smeary in a number of shots. (Jamie Fox and the lawyer in the lift near the end , cruise going through the window .The colour is also notably low resolution on most of the HD material and doesn't compare well with the film captured shots. Once upon a time in mexico has simialr artifacts but it took me a while to pin it down.
This is all very interesting stuff and your descriptions are so detailed I can pretty much get an accurate picture in my head of what I would be seeing myself if I compared with my HT1100. Although I'm not actually contemplating a projector upgrade at this point in time it's useful to know what's out there and how it compares.
I'm seeing mixed comments on the PQ of 'Collateral'. PQ ratings are all over the place, ranging from 'terribly grainy' to 'reference quality'. I guess reference quality ratings could just be a comment on the transfer to DVD accurately capturing whatever is on the 'master' - good or bad.
I think the HT1100 is a good pj, and if you don't intend on watching Hi Def stuff, you've no reason to upgrade yet. Higher res will allow a closer seating position without seeing screendoor, but of course you take the chance of seeing more nasties in the picture. Have you thought about an anamorphic lens for your pj? That increases useable resolution to within 13% of an HD2 pj, but you won't have the issues that may come with it. I have an Optimorph which did improve the image in some ways (no light spill, a bit brighter, more resolution), and is a cheap upgrade. The only negative is that there is some slight narrowing of the bottom half of the image (similar to barrel distortion I guess), but you can lose that with the screen masking.
Interesting info that could explain some of the panning artefacts I saw. Cheers.
I had thought about an anormorphic lens, just after my last post actually ! Seeing as I use TheaterTek I had this idea about incorporating FFDShow post processing to scale the image up to 1024x768 prior to applying a bit of de-noise filtering. Feed this to the projector, retaining the 1:1 pixel mapping for the full panel, and then letting an anormorphic lens squish it back into 16:9 ratio.
Might be a little time consuming to set up but I think its something I might be interested in pursuing in the future.
The lens is a bit fiddly to set up, but does give some useful improvments. It can also flip up out of the way if you want to use the pj in 4:3 mode so it's quite flexible.
Gary, have you read the article in the january/february edition of THE PERFECT VISION magazine, they have a shoot out with the SHARP Z12000 and the Optoma H77.
They say that the H77 is plagued with digital artifact's, QUOTE:One of the best DVDs i have, including recent additions such as Seabuscuit, hte Spiderman Superbit, and X MEN2, the Optoma continually showed distracting digital breakup in motion and camera pans via DVI or component video inputs, Thinking perhaps the video/scaling processing might be the culprit.
Have you noticed any of these artifact's yourself Gary? following Guitarman's thread on AVS he doesn't seem to mention any of these problems with Digital break up!! http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=428729
Conclusion, The Perfect Vision Quote: The Sharp Z12000 is the easiest call i've made in a long time-it gets my highest recommendation. This projector is priced below many premium single chip DLP projectors by a fair margin and yet gives up no significant ground on performance or features to any of them, Given its price, feature set, and stellar performance, and the rapidity with which we're seeing changes in digital projection technoligy, i wonder if the Sharp isn't the safest bet in a FIXED -PIXEL projector right now.
The Optoma H77 showed well in spite of being, along with the maxx11 plus, the least expensive HD2+ projector i,ve reviewed, it deftly balanced punchy light output with deep enough blacks to make for impressivley dimensional and dinamic pictures. Its quality with 720p HD material showed exellent depth and a seamless resolution that rivaled the sharp. But it also showed enough artifacts with 480p DVDs and 1080i material to give me pause!!.
Given the Sharp costs £1500- £2000 more expensive than the Optoma over here do think projectors with such a price diffrence should be compared to one another, there,s no doubt in my mind that the Sharp is by far the superior projector by reading diffrent review's if you have an extra £1500 to spend!!.
Looking to upgrade from a Sony VPL11HT soon, the pj,s so far that i'm looking at are the Optoma H77 AND THE Sony HS50 (£1800) also the Sim DOMINO range seem to look pretty good, yet to see any in action yet just going by the forum,s.
Reading your post's with great interest Gary keep up the good work.
Hi sea surfer,
I can't say that I've noticed any digital breakup at all on my H77, and so far the magazine you mention is the only reference to it that I've heard. I tend to notice most things that aren;t normal, and that would definitely be one of them. I'm running mine from HTPC via DVI at 1280 x 720, and other than what I've mentioned, I've not seen any other artefacts. The artefacts that are known about are colour banding (posterisation) which was the most common complaint with the early firmware, but the vast majority are fixed now, clay face is another and is similar to the banding in some respects. So far I haven't seen anything bad to worry about. The image is a tad noisier, but that's because I'm running pixel to pixel and I think this pj tends to highlight noise more than some, especialy with a bright new lamp. I've seen a similar effect on other HD2 (and +) machimes as well as the Sim2 HT500 3 chip projector, so I think some of it is attributable to to the ability of the chip to bring out more detail. That's not always a good thing with DVD of course. I've seen the thread you mention over at avs and have posted in it as well.
If you can afford to spend a bit more, then the Sharp 12000 or Marantz S3 are hard to beat, as are the Sim2 range which are equaly capable machines and worth a look IMHO.
One thing I have found is that over component, the H77 only has one memory, so black level will change between PAL and NTSC if you have a multi-region player without a 0ire (or equivalent) option for NTSC. If you calibrate black for NTSC, it will be wrong for PAL, and vice versa. This may or may not be a problem depending on how picky you are about grey blacks or losing shadow detail.
The H77 is great value, but I think that's reflected in its performance when compared to the other models. I'm used to the smoother image that I had with the HT1000, but I think I can get a good compromise with the use of filters. Some prefer a brighter, sharper image and can enjoy the picture warts an all, so what I am doing is not for everybody, but I'm enjoying the tweaking between movies and once that's done I can sit back and watch movies without having to touch the pj except to turn it on and off.
I've not tried to feed it 1080 yet, but I have played back both 720 and 1080 Hi Def movies as 720 without any problems at all. The H77 seems to do well with Hi Def stuff so the more HD content I can get the better.
Gary, have you viewed the Infocus 5700?, got a demo today at my local retailer, thought the picture through HDMI was superb, leap,s ahead of my Sony VPL 11HT, never seen colours like it before !!
do you think there is an even more of a jump in performance stepping up to the HS77?.
I've not seen the Infocus, so I can't say, but they do tend to be bright projectors so they fair well in ambient light conditions compared to dimmer pjs.
They do quote calibrated contrast figures, and the 5700 is 1400:1, the H77 was around 2300:1 out of the box when I measured it and was close to D65 (very similar to Infocus 7205), so that's quite a difference (and at £1400 more than the 5700, but £1500 less than the 7205). My old Ht1000 was doing well over 1800:1 (measured 2000:1 at one point recently) but is a bit dimmer, especialy with the Hoya FL-Day filter in front of it.
What sort of conditions do you normaly view in, and what size screen do you have? Does it have any gain at all?
I am using a Da Lite glass beaded screen measuring 90 inches diagonal with a 1.3 gain, all the wall's and furniture are cream at the moment but plan to darken the wall's down a bit soon.
I no your self and quite a lot of people dim the projector down a bit using a ND2 filter when the bulb is new, do you have to re-callibrate gain and bias setting's after adding the filter?.
You might find the glass beaded screen a bit too bright for some projectors, and possibly prone to hot-spotting - what was it like with the Sony?
Darkening the walls will help with contrast, especialy ANSI, though it's difficult to get a good compromise if the room is your lounge as well.
I haven't decided if a ND2 or a lesser value ND filter is best just yet, so I've not got a finalised setting. In theory I shouldn't have to change anything, as the dimming of the image should be the same throughout the range, but I have seen some results where adding the ND has had the effect of blocking more light at the black end than the white end, so contrast has increased. The Hoya HMC ND filter seems to be the one with this capability though how it can do this I don't know. It's been suggested that it's blocking more green than the other two colours at the black end, so if that's the case, recalibrating RGB brightness levels will probably be needed.
When the lamp dims with age, removing the filter gives back some extra brightness, so it can be a usefull tweak if you don't like an overly bright image and the artefacts it can reveal. As the lamp ages, it's colour output changes too, so a recalibration is needed if you want it to remain at D65.
Gary, no problem with the Sony, picture is good using a red cc40 filter with the glass beaded screen, though the picture seem's to be a bit flat with washed out colours when you have a light's at medium. The main problem i have is that everything is set up in our main lounge area so we always have lights at 30% and below.
Definitely think i would like to go the DLP route after viewing the Infocus 5700, can only imagine the HS77 image to be even better!!, not sure if the colours could be much better as both projectors are callibrated to D65 out of the box.
The Sony HS50 is getting a lot of mixed review's at the moment regarding screen door etc, so its a bit iffy just now, though some of the screenshots that have been posted on this forum look superb, showing great blacks and colour much better than my current VPL 11HT, probably suit my screen better, have been reading that DLP can cause shimmering on the glass bead's.
I remember a few years back that buying a projector was a bit of a nightmare, but it seem's it is a total minefield now, dont want to make a bad buy, or my wife will kill me.
Colours can vary a bit, even for D65 calibrated PJs - some have better reds for instance, like the Sim2s. I don't know why exactly, but I think it's something to do with colour gamut and can be seen on the CIE chart.
Having lights on is always going to be a problem, so a brighter pj and (grey?) screen with a little gain would help (glass beaded normaly means quite a bit of gain IIRC), provided the ambient light isn't behind the seating area, as that would be putting light onto the screen at a similar angle to the projector and negate the effect.
It is tricky to get the ideal projector in a given price range when yiu have certain room constraints, as that can effect the image you see. It's a pity home demo's aren't more common. At least then, you'd know exactly what you'd be getting.
Can you tell me what the reds are like on the HS77?, Thought the reds on the Infocus where fantastic, very deep, the reds on my Sony actually look orange now!!
The reds look pretty good, but without a direct comparison, I can't really say to be honest. I do know the colour gamut in that direction isn't quite as good as the HT1000 was, so it's reds may be moving towards yellow, and be a tad orange.
I've attached a CIE chart of my HT1000 which shows the Red and Blue to be almost perfect, with Green a tad low. IIRC, the H77 had a slightly less accurate red. This can probably be tweaked out, so I might look into it some time, but currently I'm quite pleased with the overall image and contrast.
So I watched Collateral in my cinema room tonight - or at least I tried to - my Sony VPL VW10HT did not excel during this film - frankly several scenes were almost unwatchable due to their darkness and the Sony's lack of contrast.
So I NEED to get a new PJ - how will the H77 compare to the Sony - according to Gary's posts it offers a great deal for the money - or would I be better off investing more money in a Marantz or Sharp machine. (A SIM2 is out of the question because of the screen throw ratio / length of my room)
Or are there any other machines on the horizon, or out now, I should consider?
You can't go wrong with the Marantz S3/S4 or the Sharp 12000 IMHO - they get rave reviews by everyone. It just depends on how much you're willing to spend.
Benq are bringing out a 7220 I think it is, with 5500:1 contrast (don't know if this is a calibrated figure or not), so that might be worth the wait.
The H77 is good value and worth a look, but don't buy any pj without a demo, as you might see things like rainbows etc that don't appeal. You might also want to consider the Sony H50 - it's an LCD with a dynamic iris and up to 600:1 contrast. It's also half the price of the H77, so should also be on your list of projectors to consider.
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