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Pace Twin now unwatchable...

Discussion in 'Digital TV & Video Players & Recorders' started by Neil Fellows, Sep 1, 2004.

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  1. Neil Fellows

    Neil Fellows
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    Ok, just when everything with the new Pace Twin ‘Field Trial’ update was going fine, TV is now completely unwatchable. My signal strength varies between 70 and 80%, yet the picture breaks up and judders ever since the update was installed.

    Anyone else had this problem? And does anyone know how to cure it? My aerial is the size of England, the reception and picture has always been very good up until now. I have a booster that is working fine, so can not understand why the TV is unwatchable. This effects all channels.
     
  2. LV426

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    I doubt it's the software update. First thing is check and re-check the aerial cable connections.

    One other thing you might try is to change channels on tuner 2 using the remote buttons towards the top right, and see if this has an effect on the bit error rate (do it with the menu displaying signal information).
     
  3. Neil Fellows

    Neil Fellows
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    Thanks Nigel, I'll give this a try tonite, and report back. I've never tried the channel idea with the bit error rate. What kind of bit error am I looking for?
     
  4. LV426

    LV426
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    The bit error rate is quoted as an "exponential number" in the format 9.999999E-9. (I forget how many decimals). The important digit is the one at the end; the higher the better. The smallest bit error rate achievable is 1.000000E-9 (which is lower than, say 1.000000E-8). 1.000000E-9 is also lower than (say) 4.000000E-9

    To put it another way, the sequence goes
    1.000000E-9 up to 9.999999E-9 and then the next highest value is 1.000000E-8 up to 9.999999E-8, then 1.000000E-7.......and so on.

    I only mention it because I have noticed, when playing around, that bit error rates seem to increase when both tuners are recieving the same channel (or maybe, the same mux).
     
  5. Neil Fellows

    Neil Fellows
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    Cheers Nigel, I'll give it a try. Either that, or it's going out the bloomin window...!
     
  6. MartinImber

    MartinImber
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    Try a full reset to the Twin and retune

    Rumours next update is to fix the 0 second bug
     
  7. Neil Fellows

    Neil Fellows
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    OK, I checked it in the evening and the signal strength (bit error reading) screen read an average of 1.0000E-9 (again, not sure how many '0's there were, but there were only a few. Very occasionally, the amount would change drastically to something like 3.7259158, but generally it was the former. The picture stutters, and on some channels, even the sound went.

    Martin - I tried a complete reset, had it re-scan for channels, and even reformatted the drive, but still no difference. My only option now I think is to move it to my parents house, and try it there. Strangely, it seems worse in the evening, which lead me to think it was the signal strength for some reason.

    I've had it with this box!!
     
  8. LV426

    LV426
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    Did you actually try experimenting with different channels on Tuner 2, and did it have any effect?
     
  9. Neil Fellows

    Neil Fellows
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    Nigel, yes i did. Occasionally, the Bit rate would change when doing this, but no difference was noticed in the picture performance.

    Ok, now here’s the really logical, and possibly the last thing I should of tried. But today, I visited Freeview.co.uk and checked my coverage - only to find that Freeview have decided the WITHDRAW coverage from my area. I live in Redditch, Worc’s. When I purchased the Pace, I visited the website and checked for coverage with my postcode, to be told that I WAS able to receive coverage, and low and behold after buying the box I’ve had over a year of faultless viewing. It’s only in the last week or so that viewing is now impossible.

    Any idea just why Freeview would do that? There’s no email contact on their site (the pesky monkeys!) so I’m going to have to phone them or snail mail it.

    I don’t understand why this should happen (even though a friend of mine has a general signal strength of 30-50% and the picture is fine. I have a signal strength of 70-80% and its unwatchable. I’m going to borrow a Sony digital box off a friend and give it a try on Monday. I’ll report back!
     
  10. MartinImber

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    1/3 of Freeview is Sky - that is why it is a conspiracy to sell more Sky woks!

    So far 4 won't receive - 4 it works in!!!!

    Booker prize for fiction that predictor is!
     
  11. LV426

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    Signal strength isn't the only factor. Signal "cleanliess" is more important.

    All "strength" does is reduce the likelihood that something after the aerial will interfere and dirty the signal.

    It isn't likely to be a conspiracy; it's much MORE likely that a new high building or mobile phone mast or power line or.......etc... has been erected which is causing your nice, strong, signal to multipath - i.e. be "dirty".

    Of course, it could always be a hardware problem (loose connection, possibly heat-related) in the Twin.
     
  12. Neil Fellows

    Neil Fellows
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    Ok, do you want to know something really strange? When viewed in the daytime (it, light outside) generally viewing is OK. When it hits about 7.30, that’s it, no telly. I though it maybe the unit heating up, but alas, no. If I start it from cold in the evening, it does it straight away.

    Ho hum. I’m going to try the Sony box hopefully this evening, as soon as it gets unwatchable.

    Thanks for everyone’s advice so far, it really is appreciated.
     
  13. LV426

    LV426
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    Something else, then. Such as.......a thermostat on your Central Heating (or the circulating pump or similar) that's causing electrical interference. Something (anything) that's more likely to occur in the evening. On a good old analog signal this may manifest as sparklies on the screen and/or clicks/crackles on the audio. On a digital signal, pixellation, feezing and breakup are the equivalent symptoms.
     
  14. Neil Fellows

    Neil Fellows
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    Hmmm... got me thinking now. Currently, I have no central heating on yet in the evening, but my concern may be that my house is semi-detached, and maybe something is coming on next door only in the evening. I should really nip round and ask them if they have digital Tv themselves. It will be intresting to note if the Sony box works when the pace one does not.

    I'll take a look around the house to see if anything is coming on in the evening, but i have a feeling it may be something at my neighbours.
     
  15. LV426

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    Are you heating any Hot Water with your system? (or are they?)

    It isn't bound to be Heating - could be pretty much anything electrical.
     
  16. dogastus

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    Try it without the aerial booster in case it is just getting too much signal. Also, if you have an analogue TV, have a look at the analogue channels and see if there is anything dodgy with them.
     
  17. Neil Fellows

    Neil Fellows
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    It does heat the water, yes. But that’s heating via an emersion heater, not the main central heating and it’s only on in the morning, so it can’t be that. But you are right, it’s worth checking. AV forums talking plumbing!

    I have recently purchased a Radio Control Car, but this is in a different room, disconnected, with no battery. And it does not explain why it only happens in the evening.

    Sorry to make such a song and dance about this, put in a few months i’m spending the best part of 5K on a plasma / home cinema system, and the plasma has digital built in. I don’t really want to have to use it’s analogue tuner.
     
  18. Neil Fellows

    Neil Fellows
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    In fact I have x2 boosters - a small one in the back of the TV, and an industrial one the size of pluto that the aerial installer put in when the house was built (it's a new house). These have been fine the last year though, but i'll give it a try dogastus, thanks.
     
  19. LV426

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    I think you tried to post a follow-on to this thread earlier, but it seems that the forum experienced a glitch and the thread/post isn't accessible.
     
  20. Neil Fellows

    Neil Fellows
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    God knows’ where my previous thread went, but for anyone that was following my troubles with the picture breaking up / stopping on my Pace Twin, i’ve finally put it down to poor reception. I tried a Philips box last night, and it also exhibited the same problem. After disconnecting all digital kit, sound systems, boosters, etc, and just rigged the telly up directly to the aerial, the reception was pants. In fact worse than pants.

    So, sorry for messing anyone around who helped me, but it was appreciated none the less. I obviously have a problem with the aerial / or general reception in the area, but something serious has changed suddenly. Ho-hum. No more digital TV for me.
     
  21. LV426

    LV426
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    Guess your analog reception is possibly less than perfect, too. Strange that it has happened "suddenly". Anyhow, you could always consult a good qualified local aerial installer to see of a new, high gain, wideband aerial will improve matters..... It may well cost less than 3 months $ky subscription.
     
  22. Neil Fellows

    Neil Fellows
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    I think that’s the only option left. Like you say, isn’t strange how it has happened so suddenly. The REALLY strange thing though, is that during the daytime, the reception is pretty much OK, as it gets dark it gets progressively worse, and when it’s pitch black it’s dire. I hope that means something to an aerial installer, or someone on this forum. That would explain why the Pace was fine early evening, then died late evening.
     
  23. MartinImber

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    It is nationwide something or other sphere ducting

    Distant TV signals are swamping digital signals
     
  24. Neil Fellows

    Neil Fellows
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    Eh? sorry, you’ve lost me there! It doesn’t take much..
     
  25. LV426

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    Martin may be talking in cryptic terms (sorry) about High Pressure weather causing unusual co-channel interference from distant transmitters; used to be known as continental interference. And he may just be right; if the problem appears to clear up, after the weekend (when, if the forecast is right, the current high pressure system will have toodled off to Europe) then you have a possible answer. Good thinking, MI.
     
  26. stanleyntl

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    A possible cause of signal break-up is Tetra radio interference from local police radio comms masts.
    As Freeview is carried on normal UHF TV band it has no immunity to the Tetra radio band beneath.
    A filter is needed to pass only the TV band. Garex Electronics a radio ham enthusiast company does these, see www.garex.co.uk. The model is HPF-6 at £24.95 including postage; money back if it doesn't cure the problem.
    There are cheaper notch filters, but it is necessary to know the exact frequency of the UHF interference!

    Hope this helps, Tetra interference does fluctuate throughout the day, or with the weather - hence reception is okay for part of the day.
     
  27. MartinImber

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    Troposphere Ducting I think!

    Good example is that the analogue frequencies at Emily Moor are the same as digital at Sutton Coldfield, but the funny weather causes the EM signals to travel further blocking the SC digital muxes.
     
  28. Neil Fellows

    Neil Fellows
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    I do live near a Police station, in fact, probably about 1/4 mile from a huge one in Redditch, so it’s a possibility, but then I can’t think why its happened just now when it’s always being there. Apart from the fact that the Police are currently moving over to digital radio for communication (apparently). Your thoughts on the radio interference solution sounds interesting - I’ll take a look at their site. I think my only real option now though is to find an expert aerial installer in my area who may be able to help with my specific problem.
     
  29. DRGL

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    What happens to digital when there are atompheric issues? On Analogue you would get picture break up when the signal from a nearby transmitter would interfere with the signal........
     
  30. LV426

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    Up to a point, you'll see nothing. If there's enough corruption in the signal to result in more bit errors than the receiver can handle, the signal will break up in digital fashion........increased pixellation, occasional frame freezes, on to significant frame freezes and loud audio "clicks", on to "no signal" depending on how bad it is.
     

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