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Out of sync picture and sound problem

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by gymboy17, Jan 20, 2005.

  1. gymboy17

    gymboy17
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    I have just got a BenQ PE8700 projector which works very well except for the fact that there is a delay with the image it projects. I am using an S-video cable from the dvd player to the projector and a surround sound system is connected to the surround system. The picture and sound are always out of sync by about 1/10th of a second which doesn't sound much but is really unwatchable. When I have the TV and projector are both showing a dvd playing at the same time, it is clear to see that the projector image is trailing behind. The TV and sound are always in sync which I think tells me that the surround sound is OK and there is something wrong with the projector or how it is rigged up. i've tried every different settings with the dvd and projector but it never gets any better. Does anyone know why there is a slight picture delay?
     
  2. Piers

    Piers
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    It is because of all the processing that is going on inside the projector which is delaying the video and you are then hearing sound ahead of the picture. I first noticed it when I got a plasma panel and the only solution was to get an AV receiver that had global audio delay (Denon 3802). Without it I also found the picture unwatchable. I have recently got myself a ThemeScene H57 and the picture on the plasma and on the PJ are in sync with each other - i.e. audio delay is essential with the H57 also.

    Regards

    Piers
    www.homecinemaengineering.com
     
  3. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    I wonder if you can set the audio delay for the speakers enough to bring them back into sync? Tell the amp you are sitting either closer or further away than you are might help maybe. Try the extremes of the settings to see if it changes noticably.

    Other than that, I think I saw device for delaying the audio signal and it was under £200, but I can't remember what it was or where I saw it now. :(

    Gary.
     
  4. Piers

    Piers
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    Gary,

    Is this the one - Felston DD340 digital audio delay ? I think that joe@tmfsolutions.co.uk stocks them but cannot guarantee that.
     
  5. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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  6. gymboy17

    gymboy17
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    Thanks for all the info on lipsync problems. The makers of these projectors sure do their best to keep this problem quiet from their customers. I didn't count on spending £2400 on a projector and then another £180 so i can watch it properly.
    It looks like a choice between forking out more cash or sending the thing back to BenQ. Big shame because it is a great projector otherwise. from what i've read, the manufacturers know all about this problem but keep quiet about it. They are planning to address the problem in future models but in the meantime it's tough on anyone that buys one now.
    Beware of this problem any future projector buyers out there.
     
  7. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    I couldn't find any mention of it over on the US forum, so where did you hear about this being a common problem?

    Gary.
     
  8. gymboy17

    gymboy17
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    I read on a review site somewhere that it was known to the industry and that they are working on the problem in future models but I can't remember which site it was on I'm afraid. I think this info should be more commonly shared over the net myself, I wish I'd know about it.
    I've looked at the audio delay gizmo Felston DD340'. It sounds like just what I need although it makes my stomach turn to think of forking out £175, then again it would be great to see a 7 foot wide film again with lips in sync. :)
     
  9. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    It does happen, but I don't believe it's that common to be honest. I'm on my 3rd pj now, and it's never been an issue with any of them. I've also seen many others that didn't have the problem either, so it seems more isolated than common, which is why I think it might be something else other than the pj. It's quite likely to be the player:

    http://www.guidetohometheater.com/dvdplayers/904v/index2.html

    "There was about a three-frame delay (100 milliseconds) between the audio and video, caused by inevitable video-processing delays and typical of the players we've tested recently. "

    Can you try another DVD player? Have you tried your amps adjustments for speaker delay? Can you use another display in place of the pj to see if it's the same. Maybe try composite or component instead of s-video straight from the player to the pj?

    Just trying to isolate the cause to see if it lies elsewhere. If it is the pj, then it seems you might be unlucky, since I cannot find any other instances of the problem with that particular projector when searching over on avs or on google. You could join avs and post that specific question to see how many 8700 owners have or had the problem. The user base on that forum is huge, so you're bound to get a few replies form owners.

    Gary.
     
  10. gymboy17

    gymboy17
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    I've tried 2 DVD players. 2 different s-video cables plus a phono cable to the projector, all with the same results. I've tried the delay on the surround sound amp but that doesn't touch the problem. The delay is quite bad. I've not tried component leads yet and I don't know what composite leads are to be honest.
    It's encouraging to hear that you've never had this problem, I find it hard to believe that it IS a common problem. I'm just a bit down that I splashed out on a so called quality machine and still have all this hassle and can't even use it. Hopefully it is the machine at fault and I can get a new one sorted out, better that than it being a design fault I suppose.

    I will see what's going on at AVS as you suggested. :thumbsup:
     
  11. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Good luck - hope things turn out Ok. It can be a pain sending stuff back.

    Gary.
     
  12. jwm15

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    Are you saying that the H57 causes a delay in picture? I have had my H57 since the end of November and had no sync issues at all, and I am not using any sort of audio delay.

    Do you have any especially long cable run? That could be the problem, not the projector (or plasma, for that matter).

    -- J
     
  13. gymboy17

    gymboy17
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    J
    I'm using a BenQ 8700. I've tried short and long cables with the same problems. I'm still waiting for BenQ to get back to me with their diagnosis about it but as usual I've heard nothing from them at all. This leads me to believe that they know about the problem and are brushing me off. :nono:

    I'm holding off on splashing out even more money on an audio delay gizmo until I find out what is going on. I need to find someone else with an 8700 I suppose and compare notes but there aint may about.

    Nick
     
  14. Piers

    Piers
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    J,

    I may have been being unfair to the PJ as I am running through a scaler which inevitably causes further video delay - whereas the plasma was running RGB to VGA. The HDMI cable is 10m. It may also be that I am very sensitive to audio ahead of video - once you've seen it and tried (and failed to live with it) you can never again put up with it.


    Piers
    www.homecinemaengineering.com
     
  15. jwm15

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    It is very likely the scaler, as you surmise. I mentioned the cables because that is a classic issue in video postproduction (although the delays there are typcially in milliseconds but sync issues can become perceptable). You should also make sure that your test source is in proper sync. Many DVDs have sloppy audio encoding that exacerbates ADR errors (i.e., the dialogue replacement is not great to begin with and the DVD authoring process can pull it out of sync further). I expect you have tested your system on a variety of sources but just thought I'd mention it.

    -- J
     
  16. Dazzler2409

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    I would guess that the scaler is at fault. I have a Pioneer 565a and if I leave progressive out switch on when watching PAL discs (it only outputs prog on NTSC) I get massive lipsync probs, we are talking up to a couple of seconds!!

    Video processing can seriously slow the path of video signal.

    It took me ages to fathom out the cause and nearly gave up and took pj back to shop (I am using AE700 for wot its worth)

    Darran
     

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