Our question answered

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by Pecker, Sep 20, 2007.

  1. Pecker

    Pecker
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    For what seems like forever we've been arguing about lossless soundtracks, and what can fit on a disc.

    Can you get a long film & a lossless soundtrack onto a 30gb HD DVD, or do you need a 50gb BD?

    The answer:

    http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/977/troy_dc.html

    An emphatic YES!

    Full HD 1080p/24fps? YES!
    Lossless soundtrack? YES!
    Long film? YES! A whopping 198 minutes! (nearly three and a half hours)
    Compromised PQ/SQ? NO! Scores 4.5 stars for both.

    PQ: "Compression artifacts are also not an issue, with no banding, pixelization or macroblocking evident."

    SQ: "The movie's sound design is maximized to clobber you over the head. If any scene features a clanking sword or Eric Bana screaming, "For Troy!", then you're going to hear it in your surrounds. Fine sonic shadings are easily discernible in the rears, and the overall "wall of sound" effect during the battle scenes is quite impressive. The accuracy of localized effects is excellent throughout, and imaging is transparent -- the "360-degree effect" is palpable. Dynamics also border on the stunning, with the subwoofer delivering a wallop, and James Horner's score sounding particularly rich and soaring. Dialogue is also expertly balanced, which is especially welcome on a big-budget, bombastic action spectacle like this.

    They even had enough room left for 45 minutes of extras (probably about 2gb).

    Theoretical arguments are history - this is now fact.

    Steve W
     
  2. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    but what about a 16:9 encode Steve? :devil: ;) 2.40 is easy to do...:rolleyes:
     
  3. Pecker

    Pecker
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    That's okay.

    The only uber-long films I can think of are in 'scope. :D

    Steve W
     
  4. BadAss

    BadAss
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    Erm, what happened to PiP like on the previous release of Troy? AWOL?

    Erm, why was Alexander spread across two disc? (214mins)

    :rotfl:

    Answer, it all don't fit on a HD30!

    Roll on LOTR.
     
  5. Moosh

    Moosh
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    Wasn't Alexander split for both formats?

    Also why are you going on about PiP? I thought it was worthless? ;)

    Cheers
    Moosh
     
  6. Pecker

    Pecker
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    You have a point.

    After all, there's that 198 minute film on BD with a lossless soundtrack and PinP...oh, hold on. :rotfl:



    Let's see. PinP is useless. Unless it's in High Def. Later. Not now, I mean it's useless now. But might be useful later. After 1.1 is introduced. If it's introduced. If it works. But HD DVD's 30 gb capactity isn't enough. Because you can get 108 minutes and lossless on a disc, but not with PinP. But PinP is useless. Unless it's in high def. Later. Not now, I mean...

    And so it goes.

    BadAss, your passion is absolutely comendable. But on this one, I think you're just going to have to admit it.

    You can definitely get 3 and a half hours with lossless on a 30gb HD DVD.

    Steve W
     
  7. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    For info, if you work on 6Gb per hour of film with 1 lossless soundtrack you are in the right ballpark, this would equate to a 5hr film with lossless soundtrack and nothing else on HD DVD and 4 hrs on BD25 if you use VC1 and TrueHD. This should satisfy most unless there is an intensional directorial decision to have an intermission like Alexander and therefore it is split over two disc on both formats.
     
  8. andythescientis

    andythescientis
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    The director wanted you to have time to get your Kiora and Cornetto....
     
  9. andythescientis

    andythescientis
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    I suspect it's a case of Lowest common denominator here..

    This disc is for release on DVD, HD-DVD and BD. Warners must have decided to go ahead with a simultanious release rather than more delays and accusations of being unequal in it's releases. In other words they didn't want to work on the IME that would not work on the DVD or the BD.

    Basically are they showing what Paramount said, that it's too much hard work to produce different interactive functions on two different formats for quick releases?
     
  10. BadAss

    BadAss
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    Fine for the weak bladdered Cinema folk, sure grab a Cornetto on the way back, but at home I'd rather the whole movie come on one disc. I mean two disc's is like going back to the 70's Lazer disc era!

    Cornetto or no Cornetto the pause button has no substitute so the Director can kiss my numb ass.
     
  11. Rich777

    Rich777
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    I'll take the Cornetto choco disc and a magnum equador for the missus :smashin:
     
  12. Pecker

    Pecker
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    I think you'll find that LaserDisc had a maximum capacity of 2 hours on a disc, with just one hour on a side. The superior CAV format had only an hour on a disc and thirty minutes on a side!

    If you wanted this film on LaserDisc CAV you'd have needed to get up to turn the disc over, or replace it 6 times.

    There really is no comparison.

    In the wikipedia, only 19 films are listed as being between 4 and 5 hours long.

    There are 9 more 5-6 hours.

    3 more 6-7 hours.

    2 more 7-8 hours.

    2 more 8-9 hours.

    1 more 9-12 hours.

    3 more 12-24 hours.

    And 4 more over 24 hours.

    That's 39 films over four hours long.

    Only 20 are over 5 hours long.

    If Nic is correct, and it's 1 hour = 6gb, than a HD DVD can carry 5 hours, and a BD50 can carry 8 hours 20 minutes.

    Subsequently the film you can fit on one BD50, but not on one HD DVD amount to 16.

    Even at a max of 4 hours on 30gb (7.5gb per hour - BD50 = a maximum of 6 hours 40 minutes) there are only 31 films that will fit on as big BD, but not a big HD DVD.

    There are over 100,000 watchable films in existence.

    Who would show a preference for one format over another on the basis that there are 16 films (or possibly even 31) out of over 100,000 for which you have to change the disc, when those films would be over 4 or 5 hours anyway?

    :confused:

    If we're being honest, there are probably more people on the planet with a pathalogical hatred of the colours red or blue who could reject a format legitimately than those who really mind getting up after 3 hours 59 minutes to change a disc.

    Steve W
     
  13. Pecker

    Pecker
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    Now the irony is, Me Julie likes the Cornettos, but I like the Magnum Ecuador.

    :thumbsup:

    Steve W

    ps. There's no 'q' in Ecuador.

    SW
     
  14. MAW

    MAW
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    I thought it was just bad, you mean it's numb as well? Now seriously, this is a non issue. If they have to leave off PinP and stuff, it makes it just like blu ray, good movie and sound, no flashy features. What is your issue with that? The longest movie will fit without quality loss.
     
  15. Sonic67

    Sonic67
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    Yes I was suprised at that. Alexander on two disks for Blu-ray! :eek:
     
  16. Sonic67

    Sonic67
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    Kingdom of Heaven Directors Cut on DVD is on two disks. That might have been the most recent.

    Video CD always used to be two disks except for Apocalypse Now which came on three.

    I don't have a problem with it as I usually take the chance for more beer and nachos while I'm up then anyway. I've never understood this from the Blu-ray camp anyway. LOTR was one story artificially split into three by the publishers due to post war paper rationing.

    The film has followed the same patttern. No part of the trilogy stands on its own as a story. So the only way you can truly watch LOTR and see the story as JRR Tolkien would have intended is when the technology arrives to put the whole lot on a single disk.
     
  17. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    The cheek :D

    Probably quite a few on the internet forums. :rolleyes:
     
  18. Timbo21

    Timbo21
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    Isn't this argument irrelevant anyway if TL51 is coming?

    But I guess it silences the Blu-meanies :eek:

    T.
     
  19. cobbler

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    I have no problems with 2 discs or not. Very rarely does a film in our house

    get watched through without someone taking a bathroom break or going to

    get more drink/snacks so another 20 seconds to change over a disc "means

    nothing to meeeeeeeeee." I only wish my life was so important that I simply

    did not have time to deal with 2 discs and flippers :devil:


    Perhaps spreading movies over multiple discs could be a new government

    initiative to help combat growing levels of obesity.
     
  20. andythescientis

    andythescientis
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    Bloody hell!

    I remember going to the odeon to see the starwars trilogy in about 1984 a year after ROTJ came out. When i got up at the end my arse had gone so numb i could harldy walk!...

    24 hours in the cinema that's just obscene!

    Hmm this has reminded me of something i've always wondered about.... Perhaps it was just me, but in the olden days whenever i stood up and walked out the cinema i used to feel pretty dissy and disorientated. However now that virtually never happens... wierd, perhaps it's just different when you're 12!

    Sorry rambling now...
     
  21. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Do you know how much whisky you have to put in a glass for a 4 hr film?
     
  22. JAGUAR1977

    JAGUAR1977
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    I very much doubt Toshiba/HD-DVD are developing a 51 GB disc, that is costly, and doesn't yet have a final spec, just for the fun of it.

    Unfortunately most dual format releases are identical and don't take advantage of Blu-ray's extra capacity.
     
  23. Jeff

    Jeff
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    It doesn't cost much at all to add 3rd layer. Remember the new red laser HD format VMD uses up to 10 layers!
     
  24. Pecker

    Pecker
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    I'm sure some people will sleepwalk into the wrong choice here.

    Their thinking is all stood still.

    Maybe they came to dance, which they'll soon be doing with tears in their eyes, instead of watching films. They're not listening to the voice of reason - logic and these people are like passing strangers.

    They'll get the idea eventually, if they think about it and lament...one small day.

    I'll stop now, it's probably getting annoying. :rotfl:

    Steve W
     
  25. Timbo21

    Timbo21
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    Do they make glasses to hold that amount? :)

    T.
     
  26. peterweg

    peterweg
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    Yes, its usually called a bottle.
     
  27. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    A bottle is not enough, though I solved the problem early on with magnums of malts from Highland, Lowland, Island and Islay regions and a double magnum of Campbeltown (my favourite) 'on tap' when I opened 'my cinema for business', unfortunately I found the angels drank too much ;)
     
  28. Pecker

    Pecker
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    What's wrong with a glass of port and some nice cheese, you philistines!

    Steve W
     
  29. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    I have run out of 63, and the stocks of 77 are low ;)
     
  30. Sonic67

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    I prefer Laphroig or Ardbeg. Yesterday was Captain Morgan rum for the Talk Like A Pirate day. I like cheese and port but it is still banned from the house since the Mrs Sonic67 and the bottle of port, party for one, incident.
     

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