Oscars 2019

Discussion in 'Movie Forum' started by barnaby jones, Aug 8, 2018.

  1. barnaby jones

    barnaby jones
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  2. Greg Hook

    Greg Hook
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    It's about time a category such as that was brought in.

    Just because a film isn't 'critically' acclaimed does not mean it isn't worthy of awards.
    Avengers Infinity War for example will win no oscars in the traditional format, but it definitely should win if this popular film category existed.
     
  3. barnaby jones

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    Spot on, Infinity War was the first film that popped in my head to.
     
  4. barnaby jones

    barnaby jones
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    Spot on, Infinity War was the first film that popped in my head to.
     
  5. Sandyb01

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    Inevitable move as the Oscars desire to make a gesture towards "maintaining relevance" among a certain demographic.

    Personally i'm not a fan of the move - awards season helps out those, lets say, more grown up films broadly which are unlikely to make 300-1bn. The Marvel / action movies, or even horror films if they are included, are generally critic proof, and people go and see them irrespective of what the critics think by and large.

    And most of the Marvel / DC stuff aren't films, nor great films. They're episodes of a television franchise, just ones that are released in the cinema.
     
  6. scrowe

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    I don't agree with much of that. It's not the Oscar's job to highlight and promote and reward those that are worthy over popular. They are there to acknowledge and reward 'excellence of craft' in the cinema medium. The fact is the Oscars are biased against many types of movie by default, which is wrong. This at least is a step in the right direction to be more inclusive of all types of cinema and craft.
     
  7. Sandyb01

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    I'll say at the outset that i don't take the Oscars that seriously, at least when it comes to handing out winners. Nominations are interesting, but they frequently make odd choices when it comes to the actual winners in the main categories.

    That all said, they have throughout their history given little recognition to higher grossing films. That hasn't hurt those types of films, they don't need awards benediction, and are generally critic proof. That is fairly objectively borne out by data and history.

    Its more obvious, or likely, that they do to some extent bring more attention to more grown up fare. I dont think thats a bad thing, irrespective of missteps in choosing actual category winners.

    And this move in creating an award for Outstanding Achievement in Popular Film is a little trite. With the caveat that we don't know the criteria yet, it could well give the impression of tokenism. And while the Oscars committee do have their faults and biases, at times they have chosen popular films (LOTR). If the new category had existed then, would it have walked off with the new award, and not been eligible for the more prestigious Best Picture.

    The example being cited today is Black Panther, which of course made a big impact, as much or more for broader cultural reasons than anything else. But it's not an objectively great film.

    And the Marvel output are not really films in any traditional sense - 2 hour-ish self contained stories. They are much closer to episodes of a TV series.

    Film is traditionally a directors medium, and one thing is for sure with the MCU or most franchise fare - auteurist directors are generally not welcome, and frequently replaced by hired hands whose job is to just keep the thing going.
     
  8. richp007

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    They've obviously panicked, knowing full well I'll personally lead a bloody revolution to bring the Academy down if Infinity War isn't nominated this year in the best film category . :D
     
  9. Sandyb01

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    You do know the make up of the Oscars committee? IW is far from their thing, and if Dark Knight escaped them, they sure as hell wont go anywhere near IW ( for Best Picture)

    if anything, the film of that type that they will recognise in some form is Black Panther, which was a big cultural moment in the US.

    But that's the issue with the new category - its a dumping ground for blockbuster fare, and the Best Picture / Director / Actors awards will remain the most prestigious. Rarely or ever will a BP, for example, win both Best Picture, and the new Outstanding Achievement in Popular Film award.
     
  10. scrowe

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    I entirely disagree with your opinions on the Marvel films, but I get that because they are flavour of the month, they are used as part of this argument, but I'm not going to defend anything here, because I think you are missing the crux of this.

    So let's try a different scenario. Horror movies - clearly adult in concept and target audience. If I was a writer, director, cinematographer, make-up artist, or even actor that had worked on a movie that was the absolute pinnacle of craft, the top of that genre, how insulting and demoralising is it to know you will never get recognised by the prime awards body in your medium. I'm sorry but the term 'snobbery' has never been more apt than when directed at the Oscars body.

    You are right in that I think TROTK would have got the popular category instead, but this is what's wrong with the world today. You do nothing it's bad, you do something it's bad, you do a lot, and you've gone too far, etc. I can only assume that everyone who criticises default preference, is to do nothing - Everything or Nothing is the worst of all attitudes.
     
  11. Sandyb01

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    Not sure i understand the final paragraph.

    For the record, i'm no hater of the Marvel films, they're not my cup of tea but i've enjoyed the odd one. I can certainly see how they've by and large done a good job, had a plan, executed on it, and don't take themselves too seriously.

    But the point re the Oscars or Golden Globes etc is that superhero or other franchise films have drifted away from being films in the traditional sense - again, for forty / fifty years they have been 2 hour self contained stories, and largely helmed by a directorial vision. Thats not a controversial opinion. Cinema has been taken over by franchise fare - and whatever they are, they are not self contained, nor consistent with that filmic tradition.

    It's a well rehearsed point made by film critics widely, and one i entirely agree with. And the Oscars committee are not of the franchise demo, and more in tune with traditional movie making by and large.

    Again, where grown up films get a demonstrable boost from awards, franchise fare dont need it. Again, not a controversial opinion. The studios literally don't care - given release schedules, by the time awards season comes around, their franchise films have done their business. An award will change nothing re the economics. Its different for grown up films. Getting these films green lit has become way harder than in the past, and awards help.

    And again, i'm not against blockbuster films, but few of them are actually good enough to merit Best Picture awards. I can see the argument for why, in recent years, it seems odd that classics / near classics like the Bourne trilogy, the original Die Hard, or Dark Knight didn't merit some awards. But not one of the Marvel / DC films is a classic.

    Agree that they have a blind spot for Horror and also comedies - though i'd argue that Horror is perhaps a little niche compared to the other films they consider. Ignoring the Babadook seems like an error on their part most would concede though. And as stated before, i do think the Oscars have many flaws. But ignoring superhero films as a subset is not one of them, as they are mostly fast food.
     
  12. lucasisking

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    Doesn't this mean that the films usually given awards are unpopular? :)
     
  13. Rambo John J

    Rambo John J
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    I don't know about whether it's all just a token bit of recognition and trying to stay relevant in a changing movie landscape, but considering it's the blockbusters that put the money in the bank that keeps things rolling and props up Hollywood, I think it's nice that there's a chance to win something that's a bit more than just a technical award at the Oscars or an MTV award for best kiss, best product placement, best haymaker punch or whatever they hand those out for now.

    The way I see it, just from a human point of view, it doesn't really matter whether the awards ever really mean anything or not, it's always nice to be recognised for something someone else thinks you've done well
     
  14. Mr Lime

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    I fail to see the point of this (other than ratings and money). The point of the Oscars is that they are industry awards where only members of the industry vote on the work of their peers. This now introduces a public vote for the first time.

    So now, the likes of 'Mamma Mia' and 'Transformers' have the potential to go down in history as 'Oscar Winner', whereas the likes of 'Vertigo', '2001: A Space Odyssey', 'Taxi Driver', 'Raging Bull' and 'Apocalypse Now' will never bear that honour. Terrific.

    These types of films already have numerous non-industry awards cermonies where the public get to vote - 'People's Choice Awards', 'MTV Awards', etc.

    Why not be honest and call the category "Biggest Money Maker'?

    As it is, the Academy has made dozens of dubious decisions/howlers, over the years. This is just one more step toward total irrelevancy.

    I look forward to the day when Michael Bay takes the podium and repeats Sally Field's famous Oscar speech... "You like me! You really like me!"
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2018
  15. gavinhanly

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    It's not confirmed as a public vote. I think it'll still be awarded by the Academy, but the nomination procedure might differ. Maybe a "it has to earn more than X" criteria.

    I know a lot are mentioning Infinity War, but if it's voted for by the Academy, Black Panther has it in the bag.
     
  16. Mr Lime

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    Actually, the target demographic for most of Hollywood's horror output (as with most of its populist fare) is adolescent males from 15 years upwards. You have to remember that unlike our 18 certificate, the US 'R' rating allows people under the age of 17 to see the film if they are accompanied by someone over the age of 17.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2018
  17. Mr Lime

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    The fact that it is based on popularity with the film-going public, i.e. box office returns, makes it by its very nature a "public" vote.

    If indeed 'Black Panther' (gross $1.34 billion) scoops it over 'Infinity War' (gross $2.04 billion), then what price the term "popular" in the title of the award?
     
  18. gavinhanly

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    Well yes, there's potentially all sorts of wrong with the way the winner could be chosen - but just saying that it doesn't look like there will be a chance for the public to actively vote.

    Unless they actually give it to the film that made the most money..?
     
  19. Mr Lime

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    Piers Morgan thinks this is a great move. Now we know it's a bad idea! :)
     
  20. Mr Lime

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    Well what better barometer of popularity is there, other than bums on seats?

    That way the public still gets to vote. They don't actually have to actively fill in an Academy voting slip.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2018
  21. scrowe

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    Truly groundbreaking instead of the single popular category, would be best picture within each of the niche genres, that aren't already represented, for example:-

    1. Horror
    2. Sci-Fi/Fantasy
    3. Children's
    4. Action/Adventure
    5. Romance

    I think the below are already a category, so not sure what others would complete a list

    5. Animation
    6. Non-Fiction/Historical
    7. Foreign Language
    8. Musical
    9. Comedy

    The general best picture would still be there representing Drama/Thriller/General I suppose.

    All the discipline categories would be drawn from the picture nominees as currently. I think this would make the entire event more inclusive, relevant and entertaining.
     
  22. Mr Lime

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    Items 6, 8 and 9 are not and never have been Oscar categories.
     
  23. scrowe

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    oh well, add them to the relevant list then
     
  24. Drax1

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  25. raigraphixs

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  26. barnaby jones

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    Fickle twerps
     
  27. QuestShield

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    Black Panther should be given an Oscar for every category - cinematography, acting (and supporting for Klaue), directing, score, writing, fx (best rhino award), editing you name it. :thumbsup:

    Edit: Sarcasm
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2018
  28. Garrett

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    I can't remeber anything doing what Infinity War did as build over the years with several films and bringing them all together in one film(well 2 next year).
    Probably the nearest is Alien vs Predator or Jason vs Freddy but there nothing in comparison compared with what Marvel have done.
    Ops just remembered Marvel did it earlier with Avengers then Civil War but even that's not as nothing to beat the scale of Infinity Wars.
     
  29. raigraphixs

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  30. gavinhanly

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    Nominees ahoy:

    Best Picture

    Black Panther
    BlacKkKlansman
    Bohemian Rhapsody
    The Favourite
    Green Book
    Roma
    A Star Is Born
    Vice

    Actress in a Leading Role

    Yalitza Aparicio, Roma
    Glenn Close, The Wife
    Olivia Colman, The Favourite
    Lady Gaga, A Star Is Born
    Melissa McCarthy, Can You Ever Forgive Me?

    Actor in a Leading Role

    Christian Bale, Vice
    Bradley Cooper, A Star Is Born
    Willem Dafoe, At Eternity’s Gate
    Rami Malek, Bohemian Rhapsody
    Viggo Mortensen, Green Book

    Directing

    BlacKkKlansman - Spike Lee
    Cold War - Paweł Pawlikowski
    The Favourite - Yorgos Lanthimos
    Roma - Alfonso Cuarón
    Vice - Adam McKay

    Actor in a Supporting Role

    Mahershala Ali, Green Book
    Adam Driver, BlacKkKlansman
    Sam Elliott, A Star Is Born
    Richard E. Grant, Can You Ever Forgive Me?
    Sam Rockwell, Vice

    Actress in a Supporting Role

    Amy Adams, Vice
    Marina de Tavira, Roma
    Regina King, If Beale Street Could Talk
    Emma Stone, The Favourite
    Rachel Weisz, The Favourite

    Adapted Screenplay

    The Ballad Of Buster Scruggs
    BlacKkKlansman
    Can You Ever Forgive Me?
    If Beale Street Could Talk
    A Star Is Born

    Original Screenplay

    The Favourite
    First Reformed
    Green Book
    Roma
    Vice

    Cinematography

    Cold War
    The Favourite
    Never Look Away
    Roma
    A Star Is Born

    Production Design

    Black Panther
    The Favourite
    First Man
    Mary Poppins Returns
    Roma

    Costume Design

    The Ballad Of Buster Scruggs
    Black Panther
    The Favourite
    Mary Poppins Returns
    Mary Queen Of Scots

    Film Editing

    BlacKkKlansman
    Bohemian Rhapsody
    The Favourite
    Green Book
    Vice

    Foreign Language Film

    Capernaum
    Cold War
    Never Look Away
    Roma
    Shoplifters

    Documentary Feature

    Free Solo
    Hale County
    Minding the Gap
    Of Fathers and Sons
    RBG

    Documentary Short Subject

    Black Sheep
    End Game
    Lifeboat
    A Night at the Garden
    Period. End Of Sentence

    Animated Feature Film

    Incredibles 2
    Isle Of Dogs
    Mirai
    Ralph Breaks the Internet
    Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse

    Animated Short Film

    Animal Behavior
    Bao
    Late Afternoon
    One Small Step
    Weekends

    Live Action Short Film

    Detainment
    Fauve
    Marguerite
    Mother
    Skin

    Original Score

    Black Panther
    BlacKkKlansman
    If Beale Street Could Talk
    Isle Of Dogs
    Mary Poppins Returns

    Original Song

    All The Stars, Black Panther
    I’ll Fight, RBG
    The Place Where Lost Things Go, MPR
    Shallow
    When A Cowboy Trades His Spurs for Wings, Buster Scruggs

    Visual Effects

    Avengers: Infinity War
    Christopher Robin
    First Man
    Ready Player One
    Solo: A Star Wars Story

    Makeup and Hairstyling

    Border
    Mary Queen of Scots
    Vice

    Sound Editing

    Black Panther
    Bohemian Rhapsody
    First Man
    A Quiet Place
    Roma

    Sound Mixing

    Black Panther
    Bohemian Rhapsody
    First Man
    Roma
    A Star Is Born
     

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