Optical HD Battle May Be Over: HD-DVD Wins

so you've not used your own eyes then?

I have both formats, and am extremely pleased with the several BD discs that I have seen. I had to laugh at House of Flying Daggers being described as poor.

From reviews on the hi-def digest, there seems to be little to choose picture wise between many of the releases where the same title is available on both formats with different codecs.
 
Ain't it funny to read about peoples opinions?

However, I can pick out several people posting in this Thread that act like spoiled kids ranting over peoples opinions because they think they know better, it's not only funny, it's hilarious and pathetic at the same time...

Badass clearly made his opinion here, and he's pretty certain that BD will win the war, and, on paper, it is...Same goes for people like Likvid who is pretty certain that HD DVD will win

This war hasn't even started yet and people seem to write BD completely off, which isn't fair at all!

Both formats have it's Pro's and Cons, not only BD does. As I said a few posts back, BD is becoming more and more stable.

There are clearly HD and BD fanboys around here that would like to make a statement, fine, go ahead, but saying BD is losing the war, will be forgotten in about 6 months and what so ever is as laughable as saying HD DVD is the winning format. Really, keep saying it to yourself and you might actually start to believe that inner voice, your second personality which is truly more dumb than you could ever think off

I own a HD DVD player and I'm very happy with it, there's no doubt it's a great format, but the winning format?

Based on what? HD DVD sellings? A "Better" codec?
The majority of people don't even care about technical stuff like this, so this is certainly NOT deciding the war AT ALL!

People ranted off the PS3 for being far too expensive, while PS3 sales, actually show the price doesn't matter AT ALL. Sure, people buy them and sell them om Ebay for ridiculous prices, and even then they sell out. Eventually, they're still sold units.

It's very childish to have a go at people just because they believe Blu-Ray is the winning format. It seems like everyone liking BD is a goofball, while HD likers are something you should say "HAIL" too, which is quite laughable really :rotfl:
 
:rotfl: Badass seems to have convinced himself blue ray will win,that is hilarious!
 
so you've not used your own eyes then?

I have both formats, and am extremely pleased with the several BD discs that I have seen. I had to laugh at House of Flying Daggers being described as poor.

From reviews on the hi-def digest, there seems to be little to choose picture wise between many of the releases where the same title is available on both formats with different codecs.

I do not own a BD player, But I can say with confident that BD looks as good to me as HD DVD does. I don't want to REALLY, REALLY look at a picture, searching for grain or colours that are supposed to be looking off compared to the HD version. I saw M:I:3 at a mates house, sure the image was a bit softer, but a worse film than the same one on HD? Not by a long-shot!
 
Mod comment: Can we please keep personal insults and general nasty comments out of these posts or the thread will be closed. There are some good posts and discussion going on in here so I don't want to close it
 
BadAss is entitled to his opinion as is everyone else. I personally disagree with BadAss and I am a firm believer that HD-DVD will be the eventual format winner for various reasons but probably most importantly because of price and that is the one factor which will attract the general public to enter this or any format.
But just because we may disagree with BadAss's opinions, is no reason to insult and bad mouth him. I would like to think I could voice an opinion on here without being called a 'loser' or worse for it as I'm sure does everyone else.

I think we should extend that much courtesy to a fellow AV enthusiast.....


BadAss, I applaud you for sticking to your guns.... Completely wrong that you are!! :smashin:

Agreed...the forums are here for good debate. It would be no good if everyone had the same opinion and we all should be able to express our opinions freely without having insults thrown at us.
Who knows, Badass may prove us all wrong in the end;)
 
Agreed...the forums are here for good debate. It would be no good if everyone had the same opinion and we all should be able to express our opinions freely without having insults thrown at us.
Who knows, Badass may prove us all wrong in the end;)

He will not prove us all wrong, because I agree with him on a lot of things already. I just don't agree with his use of statistics, and the way he bends information at times... like the price of the XBox 360.
 
HD-DVD looks to be on a downward trend at the moment while BD is on the up. If you take the number of titles within the top 10,000 then HD-DVD has fallen to its lowest level for months @ 80. While BD is at its highest level ever @ 43. If this trend continues then BD will come out on top. Something to chew on.

I'm not sure how relevant the dvdwars site is this month. I'd be amazed if HD-DVD had not gone down this month, as it's the peak SD DVD buying period of the year.

I think the point the original article was making was, that at the current level of sales both of HW and SW has hit a critical mass such that there is no way HD-DVD will now disapear. In this respect BD has failed, as it's goal was to kill HD-DVD and be the sole HD format. The only question is how long will the studio's remain BD exclusive when there is such a growing market for HD-DVD out there? The writer is speculating and it's nothing more than that, that just as games SW companies have decided to ditch their exclusives with the PS3, so might some of those exclusive studios.

As a on the fencer, i'm really interested to see how the studio's react in early 2007. Will they stay exclusive, will they waiver, especially of HD-DVD gives in and bows to the region coding pressure?

I've never really understood the by partizan support for one camp or the other, surely everyone just wants the best product for the lowest price, with the least restrictive format? To nail your colour to the mast so early seems amazing to me but each to their own.
 
Blue-Ray have the major films up their sleeves because they have the major film companies on their team. We don't need any dates of releases, we can take it for granted that the films that are owned by these companies will be released at some time. I mean, why wouldn't the companies want the money from the films?

Yes they will be released at some time, the question is will they be exclusive. That's two very different things. I can't see for one minute lucas releasing StarWars on a format that a large percentage of the market can't buy. After all you are correct at the end of the day they want to make as much money as they can. Most people suspect this is why their not out yet, if you ran a studio would you risk your cash cow over a format gamble?

The question is has HD-DVD now, or will it have very soon a big enough user base to ensure its survival. Seems the experts recon so. If this is true is it a "safe" time for us not sure what to do people to jump in to the fun?
 
Looks like Im sticking my toe into a hornets nest here but here goes....

I'm currently considering getting a HD player and I believed that BluRay was going to win initially as it looks a better tech on paper, much higher capacities for a start and by including it in the PS3 as standard SOny had teh chance to saturate the market before MS or anyone else could get a look in. But now with the mess Sony have made with the PS3 launch thats looking doubtful.

But still, of the two HD players I've seen on sale in the UK, the Toshiba HDDVD player only appears from the specs to support 1080i??? Whats that all about? Is that the case with all future HDDVD players due to some limitation of the format or just this initial Toshiba offering? If you have a 1080p capable set (as more people will with Sonys latest Bravia range among others) you want a DVD player that supports 1080P too. And from that perspective your only choice seems to be the Samsung Blueray player. Sure Blueray is a lot more expensive but this whole switch is gonna be expensive and I want a player with all the bells and whistles not something that only does half a job.

Have I made a mistake somehow? Ive only just started looking into all this so accept I may be VERY wrong and welcome all your expert opinions (and I'm NOT being sarcastic). Thanks ;)
 
hcup...
 
LOL, in this weather? Isn't this what Home Cinema was made for?

:thumbsup:


I think the point the original article was making was, that at the current level of sales both of HW and SW has hit a critical mass such that there is no way HD-DVD will now disapear. In this respect BD has failed, as it's goal was to kill HD-DVD and be the sole HD format. The only question is how long will the studio's remain BD exclusive when there is such a growing market for HD-DVD out there? The writer is speculating and it's nothing more than that, that just as games SW companies have decided to ditch their exclusives with the PS3, so might some of those exclusive studios.

:smashin:

But still, of the two HD players I've seen on sale in the UK, the Toshiba HDDVD player only appears from the specs to support 1080i???

Sure Blueray is a lot more expensive but this whole switch is gonna be expensive and I want a player with all the bells and whistles not something that only does half a job.

Have I made a mistake somehow?

:rolleyes: I think (no sarcasm) that you need to look into this a bit more... there is no black and white only shades of grey...


That's my input for the night... far too much wine and beer!! :rotfl: :suicide:
 
There.. that is outbidding yourself in an argument.

If you are wrong, and Blue-Ray titles are released in the next few months, your argument goes for Blue-Ray.

My speculation = Blue-Ray big guns released soon.
Your speculation = Not many Blue-Ray titles released soon.

We both have used speculation, however, I am not using my speculation to make claims for Blue-Ray being a better product. I am basing mine on the standard business approach. Taking averages from all corners of the market. There will be enough PS3's sold, and enough cheap Blue-Ray players available at around the £300 mark for companies to release their titles on Blue-Ray. If my speculation is wrong, then this will be a first great flop for this sort of media. Betamax failed because there was no movie market backing it up. Blue-Ray has a huge movie backup.

Only it's not outbidding myself in an argument - sadly it's just you, not listening to what I've said. I fully acknowledge that, if Blu-Ray gets enough good titles to market, it could come out the winner. I don't have a problem with stating that, and if you read all of my posts in this thread, it's implicit from the start. Actually, it's explicit in at least one of them - I used the words "I'm going to stick with whatever format promises me the best range of films I'd enjoy. Currently that's HD-DVD, and it has been for quite some time. Unless BD get their act together and starts releasing some exclusive AAA content, I'm not budging from HD-DVD." Surely this is clear enough?

Neither am I claiming that HD-DVD is a "better product" - on a technical basis, there's now very little to separate the two, although I still believe HD-DVD has the edge - but it is certainly a more appealing product at the moment.

Anyway - as I've also repeatedly said throughout this thread - there is as yet no guarantee as to when any highly desirable (and, crucially, Blu-Ray exclusive) titles will come to be released. Timing is everything. If they wait too long, the opportunity will be missed, and Blu-Ray will already have fallen too far behind in terms of market penetration.

What I am instead saying is that, as things stand, there is very little indeed in terms of decent entertainment content to recommend Blu-Ray over HD-DVD. Quite the reverse, in my opinion. Your argument that there will be enough PS3s and £300 Blu-Ray players around for studios to release their content on BD also works equally for HD-DVD. Is there not an HD-DVD add-on for the Xbox costing £120? Every single one of those sold will be used to play HD-DVD discs, as it cannot be used for games or anything else. Sony CANNOT make the same boast for the PS3. At best they can hope the integrated drive is used for films...but they have no guarantees that this will be commonplace. Just because it's built into the console doesn't mean it would be used to the full. Also, brand-new HD-DVD players already fall into the £300-£500 bracket. By the time Blu-Ray players drop from their currently ludicrous prices to around £300, what price point will the HD-DVD players be at? And what if China, land of supplying cheap players in bulk to supermarkets, decide to push hard for HD-DVD? When Joe Public's in Asda and can get a HD-DVD player for around £100, how appealing will Blu-Ray look then? To me, even the standard business approach (of which you appear so fond), is currently leaning HD-DVD's way.

Your description of why Betamax failed is also overly simplistic. Have you asked yourself WHY more films were available on VHS? I suggest you take a look at the work of Senge - specifically, Senge's Archetypes. Basically, Senge decribes one business archetype known as "success to the successful". Betamax is a great example of this particular archetype. What the model actually shows is that, the more VHS titles available to buy, the more players that got made. Similarly, as more VHS players got made, the demand for Betamax titles declined. Therefore, less Betamax players were manufactured. It's basically a figure 8 feedback loop.

Exactly the same applies to Blu-Ray and HD-DVD as applied to VHS and Betamax. What is crucially important here is that already, more HD-DVD titles are available. You may leap in and say "but Blu-Ray has more studios on their side". That may be, but unless they actually do something about it, and start ramping up disc production hugely (as well as manufacturing titles people will want to buy in big quantities), then demand for the product and its players will inevitably decline as demand for HD-DVD rises. The studios will chase the money - simple as that. If they see that HD-DVD is the product that people are buying in decent quantities, they'll drop Blu-Ray like a hot potato. None of them want to be on the losing side, and already rumour has it that the main Blu-Ray studios that could release films to almost certain big sales (such as Disney) are already getting twitchy about the fact they might be lagging behind.

Hope this has finally clarified my stance fully.
 
Looks like Im sticking my toe into a hornets nest here but here goes....

I'm currently considering getting a HD player and I believed that BluRay was going to win initially as it looks a better tech on paper, much higher capacities for a start and by including it in the PS3 as standard SOny had teh chance to saturate the market before MS or anyone else could get a look in. But now with the mess Sony have made with the PS3 launch thats looking doubtful.

But still, of the two HD players I've seen on sale in the UK, the Toshiba HDDVD player only appears from the specs to support 1080i??? Whats that all about? Is that the case with all future HDDVD players due to some limitation of the format or just this initial Toshiba offering? If you have a 1080p capable set (as more people will with Sonys latest Bravia range among others) you want a DVD player that supports 1080P too. And from that perspective your only choice seems to be the Samsung Blueray player. Sure Blueray is a lot more expensive but this whole switch is gonna be expensive and I want a player with all the bells and whistles not something that only does half a job.

Have I made a mistake somehow? Ive only just started looking into all this so accept I may be VERY wrong and welcome all your expert opinions (and I'm NOT being sarcastic). Thanks ;)


probably not the right thread, but I'll post a quick reply.

Two models of Toshiba HDDVD player coming out. Cheaper one 'only' goes to 1080i, more expensive goes to 1080p (1080p only over HDMI by the way, not component)

Still, TBH it doesn't really matter for most peoples TVs. Even if you have a 1080p TV it may only accept 1080i signals and convert them internally to 1080p.

And that 'only' 1080i from the cheaper unit contains all the information needed to perfectly recreate the original 1080p movie image (because its 1080i/60, and movies are 1080p/24 so they can double up on frames to rebuild the original image)
 
Looks like Im sticking my toe into a hornets nest here but here goes....

I'm currently considering getting a HD player and I believed that BluRay was going to win initially as it looks a better tech on paper, much higher capacities for a start and by including it in the PS3 as standard SOny had teh chance to saturate the market before MS or anyone else could get a look in. But now with the mess Sony have made with the PS3 launch thats looking doubtful.

But still, of the two HD players I've seen on sale in the UK, the Toshiba HDDVD player only appears from the specs to support 1080i??? Whats that all about? Is that the case with all future HDDVD players due to some limitation of the format or just this initial Toshiba offering? If you have a 1080p capable set (as more people will with Sonys latest Bravia range among others) you want a DVD player that supports 1080P too. And from that perspective your only choice seems to be the Samsung Blueray player. Sure Blueray is a lot more expensive but this whole switch is gonna be expensive and I want a player with all the bells and whistles not something that only does half a job.

Have I made a mistake somehow? Ive only just started looking into all this so accept I may be VERY wrong and welcome all your expert opinions (and I'm NOT being sarcastic). Thanks ;)

As others have quite rightly pointed out, the 1080i/p issue is a bit of a non-starter at the minute with few having the screens to display it properly.Personally, by the time I get around to changing my screen (a 50 inch 1080i only plasma) i'm sure players will have reduced in price to be easily affordable, in whichever format is still going. In real terms, I didn't see much difference demoing 1080i and p.
As for the Samsung, i'm sure someone will be quick to correct me if i'm wrong, but I think it doesn't display true 1080p. Besides, that machine gets pretty much universally panned and it appears that the Panasonic or PS3 are the only players worth considering, and at £900 for an import Panny i'll give it a miss for the moment.
I think that Sony actually got it pretty much right, from their perspective, for the launch of the PS3. Whether we like it or not, what happens on these shores is pretty irrelevant to the format war. This will be fought and won in the US and it makes sense for them to divert everything they could for the US market. Sucks for us euro consumers but since when did sony care about the consumer?:)
I'm actually quite uneasy that both formats are becoming more and more associated with video game consoles. I think if there is a perception among ordinary Joe consumer that HD is something you play on your console then I don't think it will ever take off as the future of home cinema. You could almost be forgiven, if you knew nothing about the subject, for thinking that HDDVD was solely the domain of the Xbox 360 from the number of posts on the boards about it. I expect the Bluray/PS3 situation to be the same approaching its release. I think the marketing people in both camps have some way to go to educate the average consumer...at this point i'm not sure that either format will replace standard dvd, never mind beat each other.
 
Betamax failed because there was no movie market backing it up. Blue-Ray has a huge movie backup.

Let me correct the above misconception that has been appearing with monotonous regularity in these threads - and I speak as one who worked in the video trade from day one when the first Magnetic Video and Intervision titles appeared in the late '70s.

I was a buyer, first of all for a retail chain and then for a wholesale distributor, and trust me, initially every title that was available on VHS was also available on Betamax.

The reason Betamax failed was simple and widely acknowledged in the industry at the time. VCRs were prohibitively expensive - around £850 for the first VHS player to market and that was in 1978. Sony's Betamax player was (of course) even more expensive. The only affordable option for the vast majority of the public was rental. What won VHS the market was that Sony turned its nose up at the VCR rental market and refused to allow its machines to be rented, keeping them strictly retail only.

By the time they realised their mistake it was too late and VHS had swept the board. Then of course the lack of demand resulted in some new releases not being made available on Betamax, circa 1984. The writing was really on the wall the following year when Sony began manufacturing blank VHS tapes. So Betamax had equal support to VHS in terms of movies for at least six years.

Lack of software wasn't what killed it off, it was Sony's short sightedness and the resulting unaffordability of their hardware for the vast majority of the market.
 
Lack of software wasn't what killed it off, it was Sony's short sightedness and the resulting unaffordability of their hardware for the vast majority of the market.

Seems Sony are slow learners then!:D
 
I'm actually quite uneasy that both formats are becoming more and more associated with video game consoles. I think if there is a perception among ordinary Joe consumer that HD is something you play on your console then I don't think it will ever take off as the future of home cinema. You could almost be forgiven, if you knew nothing about the subject, for thinking that HDDVD was solely the domain of the Xbox 360 from the number of posts on the boards about it. I expect the Bluray/PS3 situation to be the same approaching its release. I think the marketing people in both camps have some way to go to educate the average consumer...at this point i'm not sure that either format will replace standard dvd, never mind beat each other.

I don't see it as a problem, a lot of adults around now have grown up with games machines throughout their life. It's another selling point. Also 360 and PS3's or PCs for that matter aren't just games machines they are 'home everything' machines. They are for games, films, music, photos etc. When it comes to justifying your latest purchase what sounds better "it's a multimedia system" or "it shows films but they look a bit better"?
 
Just to correct another misconception, Betamax didn't fail as such - it eventually lost out to VHS in the home VCR market, but it achieved massive success in the professional arena, where it was used for years (still is in some forms).
As to why it eventually lost to VHS in the domestic VCR market, you can't necessarily assume what happened in the UK represents exactly what happened worldwide. VHS' eventual victory in the home VCR market was down to a combination of factors worldwide, not a single one.
One thing to note is that the VHS vs Betamax war rumbled on for years - some say it was effectively over in 1988 and some say 1993 (when Sony ceased production outside of Japan) - but either way, it lasted at least 12 years, maybe more.

That said though, while there are certain parallels you might draw, I think it would be a mistake to assume that the BluRay vs HD-DVD war is just a rerun of the VHS vs Betamax war.



As to the original topic and this rather ridiculous report (must have been a slow news day).
This battle has only just begun - it's far from over (borrowing a phrase, it's not even the end of the beginning yet).

With total joint sales of hidef discs projected to be 0.5% of the total global DVD disc sales market by year end, and just 1% of the US market, the numbers are far too small for either side to deal any kind of a death blow to the other - and the numbers are far too small for either camp to claim they have reached "critical mass" and so can't be defeated.

The issue which predictors of HD-DVD victory always sidestep in seemingly Blairesqe fashion :), is the one of studio support - specifically the fact that many more movies won't be available on HD-DVD than won't be available on BluRay.
The argument that HD-DVD may currently be outselling BluRay, so BluRay studios will have to bow to the pressure and start selling on HD-DVD, is wishful thinking IMO. There is no pressure, not based on current market numbers. In fact there isn't even any pressure to actually release on hidef at the moment.
It seems the studios are looking at the long game, while many observers want the war to be over in the next fortnight.

Of course, it could all change, but these internet rumours have been around for ages, and so far have never come to anything. In many ways, it might be better if all the studios supported both formats - at least the consumer could make up their own minds (or could they? :) ), however, I think this very unlikely, at least in the next few years (and in the case of one studio, probably never).


On a related note on the takeup of HD in general in the UK - at the beginning of November, Sky announced that 96000 people had taken it's HD service in the first six months. Out of 8M subscribers, this represents just 1.2%.
If these kinds of numbers are repeated for HD-DVD and Bluray, then we could be in for a long wait before any victor is declared, if ever.
 
But still, of the two HD players I've seen on sale in the UK, the Toshiba HDDVD player only appears from the specs to support 1080i??? Whats that all about? Is that the case with all future HDDVD players due to some limitation of the format or just this initial Toshiba offering? If you have a 1080p capable set (as more people will with Sonys latest Bravia range among others) you want a DVD player that supports 1080P too. And from that perspective your only choice seems to be the Samsung Blueray player. Sure Blueray is a lot more expensive but this whole switch is gonna be expensive and I want a player with all the bells and whistles not something that only does half a job.

Have I made a mistake somehow? Ive only just started looking into all this so accept I may be VERY wrong and welcome all your expert opinions (and I'm NOT being sarcastic). Thanks ;)

Its not a big deal breaker, either the player does the processing or the screen will do it. What you see on the screen will allways be a 1080p image, flat panels display at 60Hz progressively.
 
Its not a big deal breaker, either the player does the processing or the screen will do it. What you see on the screen will allways be a 1080p image, flat panels display at 60Hz progressively.


However, not all FP screens process 1080i/60 the same way - in fact many make a bit of a mess of it.

A recent (Oct 2006) Home Theater magazine test of 61 branded current models (admittedly US models) found that 54% couldn't deinterlace 1080i properly, and a whopping 80% couldn't deal with 3:2 pulldown properly (and this in a market where 3:2 pulldown has always been the norm)

If you have a set which does these things properly, then 1080i vs 1080p may be a bit of a moot point - but if you have a set which doesn't.......!!!

Ironically though, it's most likely that the sets which have 1080p capable input are also the ones which do 1080i properly!
 
However, not all FP screens process 1080i/60 the same way - in fact many make a bit of a mess of it.

A recent (Oct 2006) Home Theater magazine test of 61 branded current models (admittedly US models) found that 54% couldn't deinterlace 1080i properly, and a whopping 80% couldn't deal with 3:2 pulldown properly (and this in a market where 3:2 pulldown has always been the norm)

If you have a set which does these things properly, then 1080i vs 1080p may be a bit of a moot point - but if you have a set which doesn't.......!!!

Ironically though, it's most likely that the sets which have 1080p capable input are also the ones which do 1080i properly!
And even more ironically, those sets that do accept 1080p don't do any processing on the 1080p input and so you get a better picture from 1080i... Pioneer's 5000EX being the ultimate example.
 
Only it's not outbidding myself in an argument - sadly it's just you, not listening to what I've said. I fully acknowledge that, if Blu-Ray gets enough good titles to market, it could come out the winner. I don't have a problem with stating that, and if you read all of my posts in this thread, it's implicit from the start. Actually, it's explicit in at least one of them - I used the words "I'm going to stick with whatever format promises me the best range of films I'd enjoy. Currently that's HD-DVD, and it has been for quite some time. Unless BD get their act together and starts releasing some exclusive AAA content, I'm not budging from HD-DVD." Surely this is clear enough?

Neither am I claiming that HD-DVD is a "better product" - on a technical basis, there's now very little to separate the two, although I still believe HD-DVD has the edge - but it is certainly a more appealing product at the moment.

Anyway - as I've also repeatedly said throughout this thread - there is as yet no guarantee as to when any highly desirable (and, crucially, Blu-Ray exclusive) titles will come to be released. Timing is everything. If they wait too long, the opportunity will be missed, and Blu-Ray will already have fallen too far behind in terms of market penetration.

What I am instead saying is that, as things stand, there is very little indeed in terms of decent entertainment content to recommend Blu-Ray over HD-DVD. Quite the reverse, in my opinion. Your argument that there will be enough PS3s and £300 Blu-Ray players around for studios to release their content on BD also works equally for HD-DVD. Is there not an HD-DVD add-on for the Xbox costing £120? Every single one of those sold will be used to play HD-DVD discs, as it cannot be used for games or anything else. Sony CANNOT make the same boast for the PS3. At best they can hope the integrated drive is used for films...but they have no guarantees that this will be commonplace. Just because it's built into the console doesn't mean it would be used to the full. Also, brand-new HD-DVD players already fall into the £300-£500 bracket. By the time Blu-Ray players drop from their currently ludicrous prices to around £300, what price point will the HD-DVD players be at? And what if China, land of supplying cheap players in bulk to supermarkets, decide to push hard for HD-DVD? When Joe Public's in Asda and can get a HD-DVD player for around £100, how appealing will Blu-Ray look then? To me, even the standard business approach (of which you appear so fond), is currently leaning HD-DVD's way.

Your description of why Betamax failed is also overly simplistic. Have you asked yourself WHY more films were available on VHS? I suggest you take a look at the work of Senge - specifically, Senge's Archetypes. Basically, Senge decribes one business archetype known as "success to the successful". Betamax is a great example of this particular archetype. What the model actually shows is that, the more VHS titles available to buy, the more players that got made. Similarly, as more VHS players got made, the demand for Betamax titles declined. Therefore, less Betamax players were manufactured. It's basically a figure 8 feedback loop.

Exactly the same applies to Blu-Ray and HD-DVD as applied to VHS and Betamax. What is crucially important here is that already, more HD-DVD titles are available. You may leap in and say "but Blu-Ray has more studios on their side". That may be, but unless they actually do something about it, and start ramping up disc production hugely (as well as manufacturing titles people will want to buy in big quantities), then demand for the product and its players will inevitably decline as demand for HD-DVD rises. The studios will chase the money - simple as that. If they see that HD-DVD is the product that people are buying in decent quantities, they'll drop Blu-Ray like a hot potato. None of them want to be on the losing side, and already rumour has it that the main Blu-Ray studios that could release films to almost certain big sales (such as Disney) are already getting twitchy about the fact they might be lagging behind.

Hope this has finally clarified my stance fully.

Well, yes that has cleared things up. Your original post however appeared to be all 1 sided for HD-DVD.....

This is what we're reduced to? Debating the average age of the films released on the next-gen formats?

Surely only one thing matters - the actual quality of the bloody films released! I don't mean image quality - although that helps - no, I mean how good the films themselves actually are.

To be brutally frank, Blu-ray really have released some[poor] films thus far. Ultraviolet????

HD-DVD, on the other hand, boasts the meisterwork that is The Thing. Superb, and the best possible reason to buy a HD-DVD player. Fact.

Let me put it another way - if Raging Bull, The Godfather, Star Wars, It's A Wonderful Life, Casablanca, or many other classics were released tomorrow in pristine Hi-Def goodness, would you honestly give a monkeys what that did to the average age of the films of your preferred format? After all, they're all old films (none post-1980, in fact). Wouldn't you just be glad that some cracking films were becoming available to buy,
__________________

Reading the above post sounds like you are standing up for HD-DVD, but you weren,t so I am sorry to misinterpret you.
 
Well perhaps I should have set which set Im going for...its the Sony Bravia KDL-46X200U. I assume that copes with 1080P and 1080i adequately?
 
Sorry, don't know about that model - it's not listed

However, you can read the test and consider the results and relevance to you, here:

http://www.hometheatermag.com/hookmeup/1106hook/

The KDL-46S2000 lookes to be the closest model listed, however sometimes it can be wrong to make assumptions about the capabilities of seemingly closely related models - sometimes they are quite different inside.
That said though, sometimes the same model is sold in different GEOs with a different model number - bottom line is I don't know in this case!
 

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