Optical cables or HDMI for a non 4k receiver

mansyd

Novice Member
So I got a new 77" oled from LG. mounting on the wall was easy enough with the Sanus brackets...

..and thought I could simply slot it in and everything else could remain the same! (Monitor Audio Apex 5.1 + Yamaha RX-A2010 + Rel subwoofer R-328)

Well turns out - a 77" is hell of a lot bigger than a 50". so I had to hang it on the wall lower. fine. so now my Spectral hifi rack is too tall and wont fit under the tv (and not to forget the centre speaker is displaced too)

No problem I thought, I moved it to one side. then had to buy new front and centre speaker cables (van damme 4mm to future proof any hifi upgrades in the future)
(correct me, but a low 45cm rack with a good depth isnt exactly cheap. So I couldnt have got away from this dilemna of cable changes could I?)

Next I thought my yamaha receiver isnt 4k. the amazon firetv stick is 4k and the tv is 4k. So instead of plugging the firestick into the receiver, I thought I will plug it into the tv and then get an optical out into the receiver. well, job done right?

So my question to you all - have I got this wrong? Should I be doing some other configuration to solve this problem?

Or should I bite the bullet and buy the optical cables

Or should I indulge in a new receiver (I mean seriously?)

Or plug the firetv stick into the receiver, and run a long hdmi cable to the eARC and let the tv upscale the 1080 pic to 4k? (sounds wrong)

Btw, if the best way to do this is optical - then what brand do I get? a 4 meter cable isnt exactly cheap.

Thanks for reading and for any bright suggestions.. I am at my wits end!
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Source > TV > AVR with Optical from the TV to the AVR is pretty reliable (no CEC to contend with) the one drawback being lack of support for HD and Immersive formats (assuming any content you are streaming supports those formats).

Optical Digital Audio cables are very inexpensive vs. a New AVR :)


Joe

PS I’d stick an Ultra High Speed HDMI cable in or make provision for one if an AVR upgrade is something you will consider at a later date.
 

andy1249

Distinguished Member
I got one of these for my new LG CX , works beautifully.
My Nvidia shield feeds into it , then this device splits off the HDMI audio and feeds into my old yamaha receiver.

Its got two modes , eARC mode and splitter mode.
eARC mode feeds all audio from all devices connected to the TV, into an input of your old receiver , anything from HDMI 1.3 onwards.
Receiver doesn't even need to have ARC.

Splitter mode just separates video and audio from one input , and feeds video to the TV and audio to the receiver , useful for DTS , which LG doesn't support in any way shape or form , either optical or HDMI.

Amazon product
 

mansyd

Novice Member
Source > TV > AVR with Optical from the TV to the AVR is pretty reliable (no CEC to contend with) the one drawback being lack of support for HD and Immersive formats (assuming any content you are streaming supports those formats).

Optical Digital Audio cables are very inexpensive vs. a New AVR :)


Joe

PS I’d stick an Ultra High Speed HDMI cable in or make provision for one if an AVR upgrade is something you will consider at a later date.
Thanks. I will combine your advise and @andy1249 advise above

your advise on just using optical cables is good, and I would probably do it if I was not considering to upgrade my sound system in the next 2 years..

but given I am, I will invest in the high quality hdmi. care you advise purchase options for this?

I was considering the AudioQuest Forest 48G HDMI Cable? I need a 5m which is £229 so not exactly cheap
 

mansyd

Novice Member
I got one of these for my new LG CX , works beautifully.
My Nvidia shield feeds into it , then this device splits off the HDMI audio and feeds into my old yamaha receiver.

Its got two modes , eARC mode and splitter mode.
eARC mode feeds all audio from all devices connected to the TV, into an input of your old receiver , anything from HDMI 1.3 onwards.
Receiver doesn't even need to have ARC.

Splitter mode just separates video and audio from one input , and feeds video to the TV and audio to the receiver , useful for DTS , which LG doesn't support in any way shape or form , either optical or HDMI.

Amazon product
I like this suggestion.. no need to throw away the AVR just yet. need to recover from the LC C1 purchase :)

slight damner that I need to pick a couple of hdmi cables but its a hazard of upgrading kit I suppose
 

Otto Pylot

Member
@mansyd There are other cables that are just as good as the AQ for a lot less money. AQ is overhyped and overpriced. If you want and/or need a certified, UHS HDMI cable look at Ruipro or Zeskit for passive, certified cables or Phoossno or Cable Matters for active, hybrid fiber cables. You may have to contact them directly to see if they offer a cable at your length.

I use an optical connection for my C8 and QN90A to my receivers for just the built-in apps, which I rarely use anyway. Both of my systems are capable of eARC but I choose not to enable that (along with CEC) because I don't need the headaches that usually follow eARC. Both of my systems use the receiver as the hub so all connections go thru them first and I just send video to the display panels.
 

mansyd

Novice Member
@mansyd There are other cables that are just as good as the AQ for a lot less money. AQ is overhyped and overpriced. If you want and/or need a certified, UHS HDMI cable look at Ruipro or Zeskit for passive, certified cables or Phoossno or Cable Matters for active, hybrid fiber cables. You may have to contact them directly to see if they offer a cable at your length.

I use an optical connection for my C8 and QN90A to my receivers for just the built-in apps, which I rarely use anyway. Both of my systems are capable of eARC but I choose not to enable that (along with CEC) because I don't need the headaches that usually follow eARC. Both of my systems use the receiver as the hub so all connections go thru them first and I just send video to the display panels.
thanks for the response.

I would gladly use the receiver as the hub, but its ancient so won't do 4k

So the quest to upgrade some components

what are the headaches of eARC? I may not have read-up enough

For my particular setup, do I need active or passive? Is there a good article on this?

My current thoughts are to take the input of my 4k firestick and stick it into the hdmi of the FeinTech. then use output 1 of the FeinTech to connect to hmdi 2 (eArc) on my LG (using a 0.5m hdmi). Next use output 2 of the FeinTech to run the 5m cable to the yamaha receiver.

in the future, if I move on from the yamaha receiver, I will no longer use FeinTech, and reverse things, but retain the 5m cable
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
TV Optical works well and is usually pretty trouble free.

andy1249 makes a great suggestion of extracting ARC audio to an HDMI Input on your AVR - I would suggest you purchase the audio extractor and test it with your kit for a few days before you settle on that option.

eARC will eventually see a shift to the TV being the Hub of the system and the AVR becoming a 'single' Input device.

£229 on a 5m HDMI cable is nuts :)

Ensure any cables you 'install' can be easily replaced - they have a nasty habit of failing.

Have a look at the CYP Ultra High Speed cables we supply - a 5m cable is £50!


Joe
 

andy1249

Distinguished Member
I was considering the AudioQuest Forest 48G HDMI Cable? I need a 5m which is £229 so not exactly cheap
Audioquest are price gougers , their cables are not even officially certified.

Actual officially certified (by hdmi.org) Ultra cables can be had for about 20 pounds or so.
They carry a hologram sticker and there is a free app for your phone that can read and verify the product.
See here ....

I bought these , I can verify they are certified and they work , with HDMI cables thats as good as it gets , no need to spend any more.
Amazon product
There are now plenty of other options regarding officially certified Ultra cables , all for around the same price , shop for that holographic sticker and use the app, thats all you need to watch out for.
 
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mansyd

Novice Member
thanks for the response.

I would gladly use the receiver as the hub, but its ancient so won't do 4k

So the quest to upgrade some components

what are the headaches of eARC? I may not have read-up enough

For my particular setup, do I need active or passive? Is there a good article on this?

My current thoughts are to take the input of my 4k firestick and stick it into the hdmi of the FeinTech. then use output 1 of the FeinTech to connect to hmdi 2 (eArc) on my LG (using a 0.5m hdmi). Next use output 2 of the FeinTech to run the 5m cable to the yamaha receiver.

in the future, if I move on from the yamaha receiver, I will no longer use FeinTech, and reverse things, but retain the 5m cable
This isn't actually working.

The FeinTech isn't working or maybe the receiver isn't allowing? I have used a powered hdmi so that is covered. Set the LG C1 setup to be eArc and setup to be wired speaker out

Does anyone have experience with this to get it to work?
 

mansyd

Novice Member
I also tried to use the firestick as the input on feintech and then use output2 to connect to receiver and output 2 to connect to tv's eArc port. This setup also doesn't work.

Although what works is firetv stick in hdmi 1 and the 5m hdmi cable in hdmi 2 and other end to the receiver hdmi 1 output (which is the Arc port)

I take it this means I will lose all the audio signals from any streaming movies that are in certain formats like DD+ etc..
 
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Otto Pylot

Member
Quite a few tv's will not pass anything from an externally connected source other than 5.1. On newer tv's, you can pass the higher audio formats from the built-in apps to a receiver but that's about it.

The easiest is to either use the tv's built-in apps with ARC or eARC (if both connected devices are capable) or run your external devices thru a receiver and just send video to the tv. It's an expensive option but getting a new receiver that is a nice complement to your C1 would be the way to go ultimately. I use Yamaha receiver's with my 65C8 upstairs and the new 55QN90A downstairs.

If you are using newer HDMI cables with ethernet (passive or active, copper or hybrid fiber, certified or not) then the issue is most likely not the cables but the connected devices.
 

mansyd

Novice Member
Quite a few tv's will not pass anything from an externally connected source other than 5.1. On newer tv's, you can pass the higher audio formats from the built-in apps to a receiver but that's about it.

The easiest is to either use the tv's built-in apps with ARC or eARC (if both connected devices are capable) or run your external devices thru a receiver and just send video to the tv. It's an expensive option but getting a new receiver that is a nice complement to your C1 would be the way to go ultimately. I use Yamaha receiver's with my 65C8 upstairs and the new 55QN90A downstairs.

If you are using newer HDMI cables with ethernet (passive or active, copper or hybrid fiber, certified or not) then the issue is most likely not the cables but the connected devices.
I am using these.. I had to, cause I need the hdmi's to go through the trunking I have..and the ruipros looked thin in the pics and they do fit!

RUIPRO 8K HDMI Fibre Optic Cable 5m HDMI 2.1 48Gbps [email protected] [email protected] Dynamic HDR/eARC/HDCP 2.2 / 3D Slim Flexible for HDTV/Projector/Home Theatre/TV Box/Gaming Box​

 

Otto Pylot

Member
Those are hybrid fiber cables so yes, they are all thin because they are active cables which draw a little bit of power from the HDMI ports. As long as you were very careful fishing the cables thru (not pulling them thru by the connector ends, being mindful of bend radius, and protecting the connector ends from bending back on themselves) you should be fine. Ruipro has just released an ATC certified, hybrid fiber cable is you are interested in a certified cable (with the QR cable of authenticity).
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Difficult following your connectivity.

Are you connecting the Fire TV Stick 4K direct to the TV or direct to the Fein Tech splitter?

Is the Fine Tech set to eARC or Splitter mode?

Where is the RuiPro cable in the signal path and how long is the RuiPro cable?

Joe
 

andy1249

Distinguished Member
The Feintech will not work with "power stealing/power harvesting" Active HDMI cables like Ruipro.

The Feintech itself needs USB power and does not have extra or spare power that can be stolen from its HDMI ports to power the likes of a Ruipro.
 

mansyd

Novice Member
Difficult following your connectivity.

Are you connecting the Fire TV Stick 4K direct to the TV or direct to the Fein Tech splitter?

Is the Fine Tech set to eARC or Splitter mode?

Where is the RuiPro cable in the signal path and how long is the RuiPro cable?

Joe
Hi @Joe Fernand and @andy1249

Sorry for the late response. I took a few days to experiment..

The RuiPro cable is 5 meters long..

Setup 1: This works, but I believe my AV receiver isnt getting Dolby Atmos. Not sure what sound signal I am getting at receiver end. Is this DTS? Or perhaps its just sending Dolby TrueHD or DD+. How would I know?
LG C1 - HDMI 2 In (which is also the eArc) has the RuiPro cable. the other end is gone into the 'HDMI OUT 1' of the Yamaha receiver (This is also the receiver's ARC port). The RuiPro cable has the usb power at the LG end
LG C1 - HDMI 2 In - this has the Firestick 4k

Setup 2: This works too. Not sure what sound signal I am getting at receiver end. Is this DTS? Or perhaps its just sending Dolby TrueHD or DD+. How would I know?
Feintech Input gets the Firestick 4k
Feintech Output 1 has a short hdmi cable (Zeskit 8k HDMI) that connects to LG C1 - HDMI 2 In (Just for 4k video)
Feintech Output 2 has the longer RuiPro cable (powered by USB at the Feintech end). The other end is going to 'HDMI AV 1' of the Yamaha receiver
Feintech switch 1 (eArc): set to OFF
Feintech switch 2 (EDID): set to OUTPUT 2
LG TV setup: universal control settings set for HDMI 2 to connect with Yamaha Home Theatre. Also, the Firestick 4k had to be setup to control the receiver for volume control and power which thankfully works

Setup 3: This doesn't work. No sound comes from the 5.1 speakers. I was expecting this to work as HDMI OUT 1 is ARC port for Yamaha receiver. Is it cause Yamaha is ARC and not eARC?
Feintech Input gets the Firestick 4k
Feintech Output 1 has a short hdmi cable (Zeskit 8k HDMI) that connects to LG C1 - HDMI 1 In (Just for 4k video)
Feintech Output 2 has the longer RuiPro cable (powered by USB at the Feintech end). The other end is going to 'HDMI OUT 1' of the Yamaha receiver (ARC port)
Feintech switch 1 (eArc): set to ON
Feintech switch 2 (EDID): set to OUTPUT 2
LG TV setup: sound output is sent to eARC device. The Video that is recd by the tv is showing as Dolby Vision when I select HDMI 1

Setup 4: This doesn't work. No sound comes from the 5.1 speakers
Feintech Input - None
LG HDMI 1: Firestick 4k as input
LG HDMI 2 (eARC): connects to Feintech Output 1 using the 1 meter Zeskit 8k HDMI
Feintech Output 2 has the longer RuiPro cable (powered by USB at the Feintech end). The other end is going to 'HDMI AV 1' of the Yamaha receiver (ARC port)
Feintech switch 1 (eArc): set to ON
Feintech switch 2 (EDID): set to OUTPUT 2
LG TV setup: sound output is sent to eARC device. HDMI 2 is set with universal settings for Yamaha.

(In setup 4, if I put the RuiPro cable to 'HDMI Out 1' which is the ARC device, that doesnt work either)

Hopefully this is not too confusing..

Thanks for your time!!
 
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mansyd

Novice Member
The Feintech will not work with "power stealing/power harvesting" Active HDMI cables like Ruipro.

The Feintech itself needs USB power and does not have extra or spare power that can be stolen from its HDMI ports to power the likes of a Ruipro.
oh Yes, I have given Feintech USB power from the LG Tv.

The Ruipro has got power from the LG Tv too. See my reply above as well
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
If you connect Source > TV then TV eARC > AVR ARC the passthrough capabilities of the TV will determine which audio formats the Source can send to the AVR.

Some ARC TV's are limited to 2.0 from external devices (even if they can support DD5.1 from the TV onboard streaming Apps) others will support 5.1 from external devices.

ARC is also a potential limitation as some kit combinations will support Atmos as DD+ others not.

If you connect Source > 1x2 Splitter you are then only limited, in terms of audio, by the capabilities of the Source content and the AVR capabilities.

The eARC socket on the splitter will only work when connected to a TV eARC or ARC socket - you then connect the other Output of the Splitter to a non-ARC Input on the AVR.

Follow andy1249's advise and connect Source > 1x2 with the 1x2 in 'Splitter' mode - then ensure your AVR is in 'Straight' mode, that should allow you to see what format the AVR is receiving from the Source.

Keep in mind you may have to manually select audio formats on the Source device when you are playing back content.

Joe
 

Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
eARC will eventually see a shift to the TV being the Hub of the system and the AVR becoming a 'single' Input device.

Out of interest, why do you think that? :)

Could be quite concerning for a lot of AVF members who have the source devices located near to the AVR and not the TV.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Have a look at the hassle/mess the AVR manufacturers are having trying to support the higher bandwidth features which HDMI 2.1 supports.

Gamers wanting VRR, zero latency etc will be best served by Source > TV then TV eARC to an audio system (if they have one).

Soundbars are fast becoming the norm and there is not much room for multiple HDMI sockets, or anywhere to hide the multiple cables on a slim Soundbar; a single eARC socket will become the norm.

Cutting out multiple HDMI sockets can also save a bundle on licensing costs so if you decide, as an industry, to place all the switching in one device (TV) you can collectively save a lot of money as a hardware manufacturer and also simplify your Tech support costs.

As you say not great for some folk in the long term.

Joe
 

Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
‘But maybe good for HDMI switch and/or audio extractor manufacturers 🤣’ - there will definitely be a place for dedicated ‘problem solvers’ for a while yet, the trick is realising you are making a long term purchase which requires constant tweaking of the firmware to keep the device viable.

Joe
 

Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
‘But maybe good for HDMI switch and/or audio extractor manufacturers 🤣’ - there will definitely be a place for dedicated ‘problem solvers’ for a while yet, the trick is realising you are making a long term purchase which requires constant tweaking of the firmware to keep the device viable.

Joe

Very true.

In my case, the alternative is running 2 additional 8m HDMI to the TV. Yippee.

Not that I need to worry about it yet.

If your prediction is correct, I would hope that it would be gradual, I only plug 3 HDMIs into the AVR so at first they may just reduce the number of sockets 🤞
 

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