Oppo BDP-93/95 - Other Components?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by Szadzik, Aug 2, 2012.

  1. Szadzik

    Szadzik
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    381
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    PL
    Ratings:
    +40
    Hi All,

    I am starting to build a home cinema/ music playback system for my living room.

    Right now I have not got any components for the system, but have decided, that I want to limit the number of components to a minimum and have chosen to use Oppo BDP-93/ 95 as the base for playing everything.

    I have little knowledge about home cinema and stereo and thus I am looking for advice from you.

    Requirements:

    - To play both movies and music (stereo only) equally well
    - To buy all components around 6000 GBP for amplification, Oppo, speakers.

    Can you give me any ideas on how I should set this up so that I can play music in stereo as well as get good home cinema performance?

    Thanks in advance,
    Szadzik
     
  2. dante01

    dante01
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Messages:
    46,086
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +11,044
    So you've about £4500 to play with if you buy an OPPO BDP93?

    I should mention that it is very unlikely that you'll end up with an integrated solution that gives you both music and movie audio of equal SQ. You usually have to sacrifice some of the SQ associated with music in order to facilitate the amplification of multi channel surround sound audio.

    If wanting an integrated AV solution as opposed to separate pre processor and power amplification then I'd suggest you look at the Anthem MRX700 or the Arcam AVR600. The Arcam would pretty much blow your budget in one fell swoop so the Anthem is a more likely candidate unless you also consider the lesser Arcam AVR400. Either the Anthem or the AVR400 would leave you with £2000 - £2500 for speakers.
     
  3. Szadzik

    Szadzik
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    381
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    PL
    Ratings:
    +40
    Counting Oppo as £500, I am left with £5500. The Arcam, however, seems a bit over my budget. The Anthem seems better priced for my budget.

    If you say I would have to sacrifice something, would it be better in the same budget to buy a separate stereo amp and an AV receiver for as much as the Anthem will cost me?

    If I go that route, how will it be possible to use the same speakers with both amps? I thought about buying 2 speakers for stereo and additional 3+sub for movies, so that the two speakers used for stereo, get used as front speakers in case of movies.

    Thoughts?
     
  4. dante01

    dante01
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Messages:
    46,086
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +11,044
    How much you sacrifice is like asking how long a piece of string is. It depends on your expectations. Integrated AV amps fair worse with stereo music sources than their comparable dedicated integrated stereo amplifiers. Both the Anthem and Arcam AV integrated amps go a long way in comparison to other solutions to readdress the balance, but even they will not equal the stereo performance of similarly priced dedicated stereo amps. I still think you better off with one of these than two mediocre amps, one for music and the other for movies. Yes you can share speakers, but it becomes an untidy and cumbersome affair doing so.

    I don't know if it is the Anthem MRX700 that you've set your mind on, but there is an Arcam AVR400 currently available as a stock clearance item here for £1300 if you are interested?

    Arcam AVR400S
     
  5. Szadzik

    Szadzik
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    381
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    PL
    Ratings:
    +40
    I have to decide on a good AV receiver that will handle stereo well, then.

    I have not set my mind on anything yet, but looking at the lower version of Arcam, I think I would prefer to go Anthem.

    What criteria should I be looking at when looking at AV receivers with stereo in mind?
     
  6. dante01

    dante01
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Messages:
    46,086
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +11,044
    I don't think there's anything that clearly defines a good AV amp in terms of musical abilities. A terroidal PSU is a step in the right direction, but reputation in this area seems to be the only indication of finding something without actually going out there and listening to every amp available. Some manufacturers such as Arcam do better than others in terms of stereo reproduction. Others such as manufacturers who make both high quality stereo and AV amps are NAD and Rotel, although Rotel hardly ever announces anything new and NAD amps are on the expensive side when you consider what you get compared to similarly priced alternatives.

    This may be of interest, but would further cut into your speakers budget:
    http://www.avforums.com/forums/av-a...-new-nad-t787-t777-flagship-av-receivers.html
     
  7. Szadzik

    Szadzik
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    381
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    PL
    Ratings:
    +40
    i will start looking at some stuff, thanks for the advice. I am in no rush, and my budget is just something I though about, nothing 100% set in stone.
     
  8. dante01

    dante01
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Messages:
    46,086
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +11,044
    Denon are scheduled to release a new flagship model, the AVR4520, in October. It would be interesting to audition this against both Arcam and Anthem amps and/or maybe the NAD option?
     
  9. Mark.Yudkin

    Mark.Yudkin
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2007
    Messages:
    10,043
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Zurich, CH
    Ratings:
    +1,542
    My experience is that you can get fantastic stereo form an AV seup, but not with "all-in-one boxes" An A/V receiver is just that: a processor / preamp, power amp and tuner. So you end up with two options:
    1) separate the components by function:
    1.1) high quality processor/preamp. The Anthem Statement D2v is the obvious candidate here, but it's over your budget.
    1.2) separate quality power amplification: Anthem P2+P5, Arcam P777
    2) separate the components by application:
    2.1) A/V receiver (assumption: movie sound isn't as important as stereo music sound) with pre-outs, allowing you to use:
    2.2) stereo amp with home theatre / processor / unity gain mode. This has the 2 channel sources and fron preouts from the A/V as its inputs and drives the front speakers.

    1) is the only option if you have an interest in multichannel music on SACD or BD. If you don't then 2) is cheaper as you only have to pay for two decent quality channels. For me, 2) is a non-starter (classical: SACD, opera), but you've already asked about the option, so you may have different priorities.

    Both options involve at least two boxes, so are in opposition to "limiting the number of components to a minimum". Unfortunately, that requirement is also in opposition to "get good performance", so you have to make a decision in any case.

    There is yet one other option, but I hesitate to recommend it. Using the Oppo BDP-95EU, you get quality analogue outputs. You can then run these through a multichannel analogue-only pre-amp such as the Audio Research MP1, Belcanto Pre6 or the Parasound P7, and from thence to the multichannel power amp. I would not consider this route as this means you get no pre-processing features or room equalization, or anything else not provided natively by the Oppo.

    A final remark: with only £6K to spend, you should be allocating £2.5K - £3K to the speakers. But not only will the choice of speakers have the greatest effect on the sound quality by a massive margin, they may well also affect the choice of amplification. So perhaps you should open a question in the speakers forum, and start by auditioning the speakers.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2012
  10. Andrew K

    Andrew K
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,392
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +608
    The Audiolab 8200AP and matching power amp would be a musical option. You do sacrifice a few of the features of some AV Receivers but when paired with the Oppo 95 you would have a pretty decent musical set-up for a little over half your budget.
    Home Cinema - AV Receivers

    This would then leave you up to £3k for speakers which will get you a decent set-up
     
  11. Szadzik

    Szadzik
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    381
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    PL
    Ratings:
    +40
    I think saying that I would sacrifice a few options of AV receivers is an understatement of the century. I basically get no AV features, no upscaling, no HDMI, no HD sound. Basically a totally great stereo setup and still needing another 2 grand for an AV receiver :(
     
  12. Szadzik

    Szadzik
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    381
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    PL
    Ratings:
    +40
    Wow, a totally awesome and informative point. Exactly what I have been looking for.

    For starters:

    1. I am not really interested in multichannel audio.
    2. Limiting the amount of boxes, was just to make sure I do not get suggestions to build a system made of 4 or more boxes. I do realize I need to sacrifice space if I want a good system.
    3. Looking at my options:

    Option 1.

    You mention components, that would require at least 20k. Is it possible, to buil a system based on the same principles, but wit components for up to 3-4k, or is there no point trying to do that? I could add a little bit extra to the budget for speakers, if that was needed.

    Option 2.

    This option sounds good too, but again, I will be splitting my not too high (relative) budget into separate boxes and just getting 2 lesser components.

    Option 3. Not really an option, as I would not be able to calibrate the speaker system.

    Option 4. Do a lot of research and some auditioning (if time permits) to find a ~3k AV receiver that is good for stereo and invest the rest in good speakers. I already have a quality headphone setup with my PC as s source running to Audiophilleo2> Metrum Acoustics Octave> Woo Audio WA2> Beyerdynamic T1/ Sony MDR-SA5000/ JVC HP-DX1000. And since I only have an apartment, I have to keep my neighbours' mental health in mind ;).

    I opened this thread as I had no idea what my options would be. I will definitely open a thread in the speaker forum and see what I should be getting.

    Please let me know what you think about my thoughts here.

    Thanks,
    Szadzik


    EDIT: I have looked at some threads, reviews and a video about adding a stereo amp to pre-outs of the AV receiver is not a bad option if you can find a stereo amp wits as similar sound signature as the AV receiver. I do not mind switching inputs as I can use a universal remote.

    Do you think that is a good option?
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2012
  13. Andrew K

    Andrew K
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,392
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +608
    The HD decoding is done by the Oppo. You sacrifice upscaling and room EQ mainly. Yes there are only 4x HDMI inputs but if you can live with that then you get a fantastically musical set-up with your home cinema performance as well.

    Alternatively look at a decent AV Receiver that gives you the performance features you require (which it may be worth you listing) and pre-out the fronts to a power amp or mono-blocs for stereo performance.
     
  14. Szadzik

    Szadzik
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    381
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    PL
    Ratings:
    +40
    Option 1 you mention, did sound reasonable for a moment, but the omission of room calibration and audio processing makes it a bit worse.

    Option 2 is what I am currently looking at. Maybe I should simply concentrate on getting a good AVR (AVR600/ MRX700 or something else with pre-out) and when I decide I need better stereo performance just add a stereo amp.
     
  15. Mark.Yudkin

    Mark.Yudkin
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2007
    Messages:
    10,043
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Zurich, CH
    Ratings:
    +1,542
    As I tried to explain (option 2), not only does the A/V need pre-outs, but you should ensure the integrated stereo amp has an input with support for bypassing the amp's volume control. Common names for the input that bypasses the preamp of the stereo amp are home theatre mode, processor mode or unity gain mode. This substantially reduces the need for "similar sound signature", but of course the whole idea is to use a better stereo amp for the front speakers. The feature is common, but not universal, so you do have to check for it.

    This combination is the cheapest way to achieve a better quality stereo sound for stereo source with a lesser quality surround sound for multichannel sources. Of course, the option has no room equalization for stereo, and from another response I gather you feel that room equalization is important. Otherwise, since:
    this combination makes sense for you, should you feel that the stereo performance of a better model receiver is inadequate (despite achieving room equalization) - meaning you should indulge in some comparative listening.

    As for building an expensive system on a budget - well, it obviously doesn't work, at least within the bounds of legality. You can however reduce expenses by buying second-hand. With AV that means reduced functionality (8 channel LPCM over HDMI is a minimal requirement to ensure), but for stereo or speakers it's an option worth considering. Of course even then you can't get £20K's worth of kit for £3-4K, but you probably don't need to either.

    A fundamental question to address is how much you really need room equalization for multichannel. With the combined AV + stereo option you don't get it for stereo anyway. Most receivers offer "pure / direct" stereo modes "for better performance" that bypass equalization.

    quantumAV mentioned the Audiolab 8200AP + 8200x7. Since the Oppo, like any current model BD player, has on-board HD decoding (needed for secondary audio) to LPCM over HDMI, and both the Oppo and your TV have video scaling (that is also likely better than any A/V amp you can afford), the Audiolab is a good recommendation for anybody not needing room equalization, but looking for quality audio at a budget (e.g. where the full-feature Anthem I mention is not an option financially).
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2012
  16. Szadzik

    Szadzik
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    381
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    PL
    Ratings:
    +40
    Again, we come to the conclusion, that something like AVR600 with direct stereo mode bypassing all processing (in theory), is a good start and when I decide I need more, than I have the option to use pre-amp of the AVR600 to feed a stereo amp.

    As for room equalization for stereo, I do not think I need that. It should be much easier to do on my own than doing it on a 5.1 system.

    I have never thought I could get a system worth 20k for 6k, but I also do not think 6k is a small amount of money for such a system. People usually spend 1k and are totally happy :)

    Regarding the Audiolab combo.

    Do you think I will get the same multichannel performance on that combo as on say a similarly priced AVR like AVR600 (AVR600 wil actually be more expensive)? And much, much better stereo at the same time?
     
  17. Don Dadda

    Don Dadda
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2007
    Messages:
    5,660
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +728
    You could add a source switch like a Beresford 7220 Router which will enable to you switch between the 2 amps to use the same fronts. HT bypass on a stereo amp becomes not such a critical feature (nice to have though) and will elliminate any possible amp 'sonics' matching issues and room EQ should still be able to be utilized on the av. This also widens the stereo amp options.

    to add to the mix, Marantz are also known for their musical av amps. The Marantz SR7005 (or the replacement SR7007) have been praised for its musicalness or the AV7005/MM7055 Pre/Po combo for the part or just over £2k.

    However the pre/pro combo may be overkill for your needs as the pre feature list hugh of which, some or many may never be used. And as said, a stereo/av combo will most probably suit better to have the best of both worlds for money paid, though i'm sure that any of the suggested should be up to the task.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2012
  18. Szadzik

    Szadzik
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    381
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    PL
    Ratings:
    +40
    Hi Dadda,

    Thanks for the advice.

    I have looked at the Marantz combo, and indeed it may be a bot of an overkill. SR7007 is on my shortlist for sure.

    I am also thinking, whether in all this search for a better stereo solution I should commit to buy Oppo 95 and have the extra dedicated stereo outputs and configure the whole thing like:

    Oppo 95> Stereo outputs > Switch > Stereo Amp
    Oppo 95 > 5.1 outputs > Swith > AVR

    Is it possible to it that way? It would mean bypassing the AVR completely and give me great stereo performance.

    Another option that I am not sure is possible to do is:

    Oppo 95 > Stereo outputs > input on AVR -Configure the AVR to use this input as two channel only
    Oppo 95 > 5.1 outputs > input on AVR - Configure the AVR to use this input as multichannel.

    Remember, that I am no expert and am only showing my theories that I do not know are even possible to realize.

    Opinions?

    EDIT: I am really liking the Arcam AVR600 and it capabilities for both movies and music. It sesm that people like how it performs in stereo and I think that might be one of my main choices apart from MRX700 and SR7007.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2012
  19. dante01

    dante01
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Messages:
    46,086
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +11,044
    I'd give the Marantz SR7007 a miss. The SR7007 is basically a Denon AVR3313 under its skin. If wanting something special from either Denon or Marantz then wait for the AVR4520 to be released in October ;) If you really like the features of the SR7007 then get the cheaper Denon AVR3313.

    You may also want to consider the older Denon AVR4311 or even the Denon AVC-A1HDA ?

    There's a B Stock AVR4311 available for just £1100 here:
    http://www.hyperfi.co.uk/denon-avr4311-9channel-surround-receiver-black-bstock-p-1305.html
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2012
  20. dante01

    dante01
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Messages:
    46,086
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +11,044
    You'd not need to have separate connections to different source inputs on the AV amp. If only outputing stereo audio then only the stereo analogue outputs would be ouputting a signal to the amp and the amp would only be using those inputs.

    The amp would use the stereo pair associated with the multichannell inputs in the same way as it would use a seperate stereo analogue input goinfg to a different pair of inputs.

    Just use the analogue multichannel connection from the player to the amp and then use a pure direct stereo mode on the amp.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2012
  21. Szadzik

    Szadzik
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    381
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    PL
    Ratings:
    +40
    That is of course, if I buy Oppo 93 and if I buy 95 with dedicated stereo outputs?
     
  22. dante01

    dante01
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Messages:
    46,086
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +11,044
    Yeah, in that case you may be better off using the dedicated stereo outputs of the BDP95 ;)

    but then again, there's nothing to say that you'll prefer the audio that results from the player's DACs? I've an OPPO93 and prefer to use HDMI because I like the audio I get via my Yamaha RXV2065's Burr Brown DACs when compared to the results gained via the player's Cirrus Logic DACs.
     
  23. Szadzik

    Szadzik
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    381
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    PL
    Ratings:
    +40
    Yeah, but BDP-95 has a completely different DAC than 93, that is the whole point in having dedicated stereo circuits.

    Oppo BDP-95 over 93
    - Toroidal Transformer
    - Balanced Stereo XLR
    - Sabre 32 DAC ES9018
    - Dedicated Stereo Output - Each output is driven by 4 DAC channels
     
  24. dante01

    dante01
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Messages:
    46,086
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +11,044
    Yes, but there's no gurantee that you'll prefer the audio you get via its DACs to the audio you get via the amp's DACs. Have you actually heard one? It is an option and something you cannot rely upon until you've both the amp and the player with which to test with. Simply using the player's DACs does not gurantee you superior audio! ;)

    The higher end and flagship AV amps themselves have superior higher grade DACs.

    In fact, you could buy the BDP93 and use an external DAC superior to that of theDACs inside the OPPO BDP95?

    Do not assume anything without actually listening to these products and don't start committing yourself to how you are going to connect them and configure them until you actually have them there in front of you ;)
     
  25. Szadzik

    Szadzik
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    381
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    PL
    Ratings:
    +40
    You are right, I will not know until I listen to them.

    Do I not need to make sure that the components I buy CAN be set up the way I need tthem to be and thus making it a necessity to think about how to connect everything?
     
  26. dante01

    dante01
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Messages:
    46,086
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +11,044
    Yes, of cause, but try not to assume and try to leave yourself with options rather than commitments. ;)

    Maybe try to get one of the retailers to demo you the OPPO95? The ones who frequent AVForums are a very friendly bunch and I'm sure they'd oblige you :)

    I hope you like the sound of Flip-flops on drainpipes?
     
  27. Szadzik

    Szadzik
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    381
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    PL
    Ratings:
    +40
    Audition is not going to happen any time soon as I am abroad for the next 3 months with no access to shops.

    I will have to demo, but reading reviews the DAC in 95 is uncomparable to 93 and most probably the mass produced Cirrus Logic in AVR600. AV888 has a Wolfson WM8741 that is a well know and good DAC, but the Cirrus in AVR600 is nothing special Implementation is of course important too. Besides, I have a standalone DAC anyway, so I can always try that.

    EDIT:
    For now there are no commitments, just a list of components that will be taken into account in the final choice.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2012
  28. dante01

    dante01
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Messages:
    46,086
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +11,044
    Just for reference, the DACs within the OPPO BDP93 are the Cirrus Logic CS4382A.

    I personally find this DAC too clinical and in my opinion the resulting audio lacks body/pressence when this DAC is used.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2012
  29. Don Dadda

    Don Dadda
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2007
    Messages:
    5,660
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +728
    That does not suprise me considering they are under the same parent company.
     
  30. dante01

    dante01
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Messages:
    46,086
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +11,044
    Yeah, both Denon and Marantz belong to the same holdings company and have shared many of their components for a good few years now. The Matantz AV products did have more attention payed to their analogue output stages and were tuned in accordance with Marantz's ideals, but these difference seem to be diminishing? The Marantz AV products are now targeted at the AV lifestyle market while the comparable Denon AV products now seem the more logical option if wanting value for money in relation to audio quality.
     

Share This Page

Loading...