1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Opinions?

Discussion in 'AV Pre-Amp/Processors & Power Amps' started by fraggle, Apr 21, 2004.

  1. fraggle

    fraggle
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2002
    Messages:
    1,441
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Milton Keynes
    Ratings:
    +29
    Hi all,

    I've just aquired a Tag Av32R BP192 (not DP) which is going through Primare 30.5 and 30.3 to the speakers.

    These replaced a Denon 3802 which in turn replaced an Arcam A22+Dave/P25.3/10P.

    Front mains have always been bi-amped in all configurations.

    Drawbacks from each of these combinations are/were as follows:-

    Arcam : Pros : good on music, very good on AV
    Cons : not quite as good on 2 channel as I wanted. Never did give very much output from the surrounds, I guess processing has moved on a lot since the DAVE was made.

    (changed to Denon as a interim fix)
    Denon : Pros : sufficient on AV, but no finesse.
    Cons : not very good on 2 channel, no transparency to talk about.

    (bought Primare power amps, plumbed onto pre-outs of Denon)
    Minor improvements all round, more control

    (swapped Denon for AV32R)
    Pros : great on music, great on quiet AV
    Cons : seems to get muddled when the AV sound gets complex. Even the Denon didn't sound so mixed up. Hmm, can't think of words to describe it, maybe not muddled up, not harsh, mixture of both maybe? You just seem to get assaulted from all directions and can't make out much of anything. Also Sub/LFE control isn't as good as Arcam. Also sounds sterile on AV.

    Using Avia test tones I can't get the sub to merge into the other speakers as well as the Arcam could. And when watching films this becomes more obvious than when just using test tones.

    Basically I'm sick of it all! Wish I'd never parted with the Arcams.

    Anyone got any suggestions as to which part of the system is giving me the problems? Or want to swap for Arcam FMJs? :D

    Maybe I should hobble down to my local shop and borrow an Arcam AV8 for a weekend :)

    Or sell everything and spend £500 on an all in one system and give up trying to achieve the unobtainable.

    Other equipment : Arcam DV88+, Audiolab CDM8000, Epos ES30 mains, B&W CDM CNT, Eltax dipole surrounds, Servo 15 sub.
     
  2. Daneel

    Daneel
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2002
    Messages:
    2,822
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +26
    That's very interesting fraggle.

    What put me off the Tag so far was that general opinion suggested it was average at music. I've not seen many unhappy with its movie performance though. Do you have equalization and if so have you configured it? I'd guess that could make a big differnece, it certainly does with my Pioneer.
     
  3. GaryG

    GaryG
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    744
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Shropshire
    Ratings:
    +2
    Richard

    I'm in Milton Keynes for a meeting tomorrow, if you're around in the afternoon I could bring down an alternative DVD Player and Processor for a quick try out.
     
  4. fraggle

    fraggle
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2002
    Messages:
    1,441
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Milton Keynes
    Ratings:
    +29
    Aww poo.

    I've got to go to Oxford hospital for a checkup on my leg tomorrow :(

    What DVD player & processor do you have?

    Daneel : no it doesn't have any equalisation apart from THX. You can have DD, DD+THX, Stereo downmix or DTS, DTS + THX
     
  5. Peter Baker

    Peter Baker
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2003
    Messages:
    621
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    LONDON
    Ratings:
    +37
    I moved from Arcam 10/Dave/10P3 to Proceed AVP/AMP5 and have found this to be great on both music and movies. I listened to the TAG, and have to agre that I found it pretty sterile with music and somewhat brittle and shouty with HT. I'm afraid I found the Arcam AV8, whilst better, to fail to excite me on music. In fact, whilst the 10/Dave was a bit muddled, I think it might have sounded a bit more musical.
    If you want to get back to this, I have my setup for sale. I'll bump it on the classifieds.
    Alternatively, I would suggest listening to alternative pre/pros.
    Proceed AVP's are sometimes available for approx £2-2.5k, and, even without Prologic2, give an immersive, rich sound.
    Others I liked were the Bryston (a tad more aggressive, but great bass control) which is quite a bit more, or the Naim, which was really toe-tapping on music and lively on HT, if a little 2D.

    Hope this helps a little

    Peter
     
  6. Daneel

    Daneel
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2002
    Messages:
    2,822
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +26
    No TMREQ? Strange, I thought all the Tags with the 192 DACS has it. Maybe it's part of the 5.1 passthrough upgrade?
     
  7. buns

    buns
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2001
    Messages:
    6,066
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Belfast
    Ratings:
    +1
    it is only the av32rDP or the av192 which has the EQ

    ad
     
  8. Parmenion

    Parmenion
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    1,162
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Out there
    Ratings:
    +27
    For some time I have steered clear of expressing an opinion on the Tag processors, mainly because as soon as you express a view that doesn't fit in with the mainstream, you get flamed to buggery.......
    Anyhoo, I absolutely agree with your impression of the Tag. I have listened to three versions (not the DP) and To My Ears ! they produce a muddled soundstage which can be easily bettered by less expensive kit. Others, it must be pointed out, disagree and point to this "muddle" as proof of the processors ability to sling various sounds out of different speakers. Horses for courses I suppose.

    Just a further point.......you seem to have an eclectic mix of speakers. Were they chosen to complement each other?

    regards

    Parmenion
     
  9. fraggle

    fraggle
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2002
    Messages:
    1,441
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Milton Keynes
    Ratings:
    +29
    Thanks, I've seen your ad for the Arcams but I've compared the 10s with the FMJs and like the latters better so I'd be looking to go back to those if I went back.

    The good 2 channel music does prove the main speakers and the Primare amps sound good, when partnered with a good pre/processor, its just that thats the hard bit.

    I've just learned that the frame on my leg is going to be on for a lot longer than we were initially told so a lot of what I've got might need to be sold for financial reasons so I could end up with a 12" colour TV and ghetto blaster :thumbsdown:

    My mate has a 10/DAVE and I might persuade him to bring it over for me to play with (I've forgotten, do they have pre-outs for all channels?)
     
  10. fraggle

    fraggle
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2002
    Messages:
    1,441
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Milton Keynes
    Ratings:
    +29
    The Epos ES30s were bought first. I demo'd the ES22s with Audiolab gear and fell in love with them but couldn't afford it all new then. So when these appeared ex-dem I snapped them up at £1k less than new price.

    The Eltax dipoles are something to sling on the rear walls - I believe in spending as little as possible on the rears as they don't do that much, but by luck they've got a very close tonal match to the ES30s, but start to drop off at about 120Hz which leaves a bit of a hole before the sub takes over.

    The B&W CDM CNT I've just got. Tried all sorts trying to get a decent enough match to give me a good front sound stage and these are the closest I've ever got yet. Almost perfect if I put it about 5" off the floor tilted up towards me.

    And the Servo 15, who could resist at £250 new? :)

    so, sort of thrown together through lots of trial and error over a good few years.



    Rich
     

Share This Page

Loading...