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Opinions Please - you've all got them! HDMI players.

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by deanym, Feb 10, 2005.

  1. deanym

    deanym
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    I want a HDMI dvd player.

    I'm willing to pay for a decent player, however is there a justifiable performance difference between (for example purpose only) a Samsung 945 and a Arcam DV79?
     
  2. Mark Antony

    Mark Antony
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  3. deanym

    deanym
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    Thanks for that, the 2910 and 3910 were high on my list, hdmi players are a bit thin on the ground out there!
     
  4. KraGorn

    KraGorn
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    Any reason why HDMI is of particular interest and DVI not?
     
  5. deanym

    deanym
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    I have a 435 xde so a direct hdmi-hdmi cable would be the most pure route.

    Have you any suggestions of a DVI player?
     
  6. Starvald

    Starvald
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    Probably not the 6 or 7 times better when comparing the prices..... But it is better, yes. I have a DV79, and am very pleased with it. It gives good cd playback too!

    And you're right, there's not a lot to choose from at the moment. I had 3 on my list (denon 3910, Pio 868 AVi and the DV79), and spent months trying to decide which to get.
     
  7. KraGorn

    KraGorn
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    Well, I don't really like the brand due to multi-region problems (ie. the manufacturer doesn't support it) but Denons are DVI and the 1910 seems to be a good machine at the price.

    Also some of the cheaper ones in the same league as the 945, eg. Momitsu, Yamakawa (both scaling machines) are DVI, but they'd only really come into their own if you had an HD-res. display otherwise their scaling abilities are wasted.
     
  8. deanym

    deanym
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    Starvald, thanks for that, okay then, DV79 or denon 2910.

    Kragorn, do you mean Pioneer doesn't support multiregion or HDMI? Also my display is HD ready so would the cheaper brands be wortht he saving in performance terms over Arcam/denon?
     
  9. Mark Antony

    Mark Antony
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    Deanym if you read the secrets review I linked above, if you haven't already, then you'll see the 2910 has a better overall picture quality out of the two machines.

    Both can be multi-regioned, Your money, your choice. Why not go into a local hi-fi/av store and demonstrate them?

    M
     
  10. deanym

    deanym
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    Mark A,

    I looked at your link, very informative.

    It seemed to be only discussing component picture, but as you recommend my local hifi dealer has an xde and both players you mentioned so it may be a worthwhile trip.

    Cheers.
     
  11. Mark Antony

    Mark Antony
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    If you look a bit further down there's two different sets of scores for hdmi and component on both machines, they say of the 2910:


    "The Denon 2910 is the entry level player of their upper line. If you look at it in comparison to the 1910, they are really worlds apart. The 2910 has the build and features of an upper end product. These features include both HDMI and DVI outputs and full DVD Audio and Super Audio CD support.

    The 2910 is similar to the 3910 in many ways. The 3910 ups the ante in terms of power supply, shielding, and audio performance, but the 2910 is tugging at its coat tails. This is definitely an improvement in some ways compared to the popular DVD-2900, but it gives up a little too.

    The DVD-2900 was what I call the Ferrari of DVD players. Mainly because it may very well be the fastest DVD player on the planet. Menu and chapter navigation were instantaneous, and layer changes were completely seamless. This took usability to a whole new level. Because the 2910 uses the Genesis solution, it sacrifices a lot of this. Evidently, the Faroudja processing is too much for the buffers, because navigation is considerably slower than the previous design. Layer changes are also clocking in around a second, which isn’t bad, but it isn’t the 2900.

    The plus side is this player comes with full digital video support and upscaling, which the DVD-2900 lacked. Denon is the only manufacturer on the market right now that is including both DVI and HDMI on one player. This is a huge plus, since the RGB conversion most HDMI players do when you connect them to a DVI based monitor is getting screwed up. Essentially they are converting to PC RGB levels and not the intended Studio RGB levels which allow for dynamic range in the blacks and whites that PC levels don’t allow. The only downside I could find with the Denon’s digital video output was a lack of 480i support via HDMI. This is a feature I would like to see more of from DVD manufacturers as it allows for an unprocessed digital signal for an outboard video processor.

    The video performance de-interlacing wise is identical to Denon’s upper end offerings such as the DVD-3910 and DVD-5900. The MPEG decoder doesn’t seem to be quite as good as the ESS offerings in the upper line. This decoder had severe 4:2:0 CUE issues that were so bad that the Faroudja’s chroma filters couldn’t get rid of them totally. The same went for the 3-2 alternating CUE test. There were obvious banding and flicker even with the Faroudja filters engaged. This was not the case with the 3910.

    The other tests went fine. Black levels were dead on, and the white level measured out at an excellent 101 IRE. The video frequency response was pretty flat, though not quite as good as their upper line of players, which was expected. Y/C delay was perfect at absolute zero via all outputs. Pixel cropping measured out 10 pixels combined for left and right and none on top and bottom.

    Using the digital outputs rendered the same results. There was some pixel cropping, which also seems to be a byproduct of the Faroudja processing, as it goes away without it. Macroblocking is still an issue but is toned down in comparison to the DVD-5900. This continues to be a problem for any player that uses the Genesis FLI-23xx chips. Hopefully Genesis’s new line of chips will remedy the problem or hardware manufacturers will look elsewhere for de-interlacing and scaling support.

    The black levels via HDMI and DVI were accurate and offer the choice of Studio (normal) or PC (enhanced) RGB levels. Again, studio RGB levels are the correct setting and allow for below black and above white information. This is easy to test for with a gray ramp such as the one found on Avia Pro or Digital Video Essentials.

    Denon did not support its Denon Link or Firewire outputs on this player, which is unfortunate. I would have liked to have seen at least one supported since the HDMI output is not the new generation that supports DVD-A.

    Overall this is another solid offering from Denon and currently the most recommend unit of their line below the DVD-3910."
     
  12. deanym

    deanym
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    Mark,

    Scary!!! I had just found the exact information you'd quoted!!

    It seems the Denon is a cracking player, although the reviewer did state the Arcam was his favourite at that price point. Chances are though, I'll hardly be dissappointed with either.

    I think I'll go for the 2910 (as opposed to the 3910) its as good at most things as the 3910 except cd replay, which isn't an issue for me.

    Thanks for the information though, it was very useful.
     
  13. deanym

    deanym
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    right next point!

    where do i buy one of these denon 2910 beasties for the bestest price?

    mail order is fine as its not such a problem if a fault arises.

    Any thoughts?
     
  14. t0by

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  15. Niraj

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    They have then for £515 over here and that includes free delivery and a 2 year warranty, so it might be a better deal than the ones mentioned above.

    Also, the customer service here is excellent.

    Niraj
     
  16. KraGorn

    KraGorn
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    Did you see that note there:

    Looks like Denon want to become elitist like Arcam and keep prices up to protect dealer margins. :rolleyes:
     
  17. KraGorn

    KraGorn
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    I was referring to Denons (which you mentioned in your post I was following), Denon don't support multi-regioning and from reports it seems they will refuse warranty claims on machines which have been made multi-region.
     
  18. deanym

    deanym
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    Kragorn,

    I thought so, just wanted it clarified.

    I have the chance of a 2910 multiregion for £430, but it wouldn't haven't a warranty.

    How reliable are these machines? if it works out of the box, how likely is it to go pop?

    If anyones interested I can get his email address.

    He also sold 3805 amps for £650. With 30 day return/refund but no further warranty.
     
  19. KraGorn

    KraGorn
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    Just browsing through threads here going back some time it seems Denons are wont to having odd problems with DVDs skipping/freezing/whatever. Owning a Denon seems to require you having the ability to flash firmware (as in a recent thread about 1910s for example) and since Denon's official firmware isn't MR-ed then it seems to me that without dealer support you're reduced to hoping it's posted on the net somewhere.

    Not something I personally feel like risking that with a unit costing £100s, unless you've dealer backup I'd say it's too risky.
     
  20. Mark Antony

    Mark Antony
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    Well my Denon dealer, as many are, is more than happy to provide the MR firmware, when it's available - aside from the hassle of waiting for the MR version there has been no problem for me with Denon's and the machine has performed flawlessly, which is more than I can say for my previous Arcam.

    I'd agree with Kragorn and get the cheapest one you can find from a dealer with a year's warranty because any electronic device can screw up and £400 is a lot of money to potentially throw away.

    M
     
  21. deanym

    deanym
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    KraGorn & Mark,

    I agree, esp if there's a history of the odd hiccup. perhaps these are returned machines.

    Oh well looks like I'll have to bite the bullet and get one local, maybe my nice dealer (well he's much more pleasant since i bought my plasma from him!!!), will price match one of the online dealers.

    Out of curiosity, what player do you have Kragorn?
     
  22. KraGorn

    KraGorn
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    I'm mainly HTPC-based and in the process of selling a Pio 868.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Denons are unreliable per se, but clearly some do suffer problems and that's where support becomes a need. The real problem is their inane stance on MR-ing and the provision of firmware.
     
  23. deanym

    deanym
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    and is 868 in good working order? have you sold it - i might buy?
     
  24. KraGorn

    KraGorn
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    It was sold in the classifieds forum here, sadly the guy was supposed to collect it yesterday but didn't arrive, I'm waiting for him to get back to me to re-arrange it.
     
  25. deanym

    deanym
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    Story of my life!!! always a day or two too late!

    Hope you get it sorted soon, however if it falls through, let me know what you want and we could do a deal.
     

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