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Opinions on Toshiba 51wh46 at Currys

Discussion in 'General TV Discussions Forum' started by dog-man, Oct 30, 2004.

  1. dog-man

    dog-man
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    I am considering buying the 51 inch rear projector tv at Currys for £999.95.

    Any reason why I should not buy this tv?


    I have looked at plasma screens, but I think they are too expensive at the moment, and also I am concerned about channel idents burning into the screen.



    Steve...
     
  2. andypandyyy

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    i was wondering exactly the same thing...
    i have approx £1000 to spend and my head is spinning with all the different choice :zonked:
    i had almost decided on the sony 36fs76 or toshiba 36zp38b and then saw this currys one
    i know nothing about the rear-projection tv's, quality is a main criteria, am i likely to be disappointed with the currys one compared to the crt's i mentioned ?

    the crt's are around £800-£900 for 'brand new' graded on ebay - is it probably worth paying the extra for real brand new from a shop

    can anyone suggest any other tv's in this price range, 32" minimum ideally 36"+

    many thanks,
    andy
     
  3. rkb

    rkb
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    Happy Halloween :devil:

    I have a Tosh 46WHO rear proj and can recommend it highly.
    Telly is shipped with contrast set at 100- you should reduce it to 50-60 to avoid screenburn. By the time you use Avia or similar to adjust the settings it should reduce contrast to these sort of levels.

    Most CRTs are very good out of the box, but RPs may need a bit of tweaking.
    The consumer menu for adjusting convergence is quite limited- but there are loads of posts on these forums for accessing the service menu and tweaking til your hearts' content.

    Adjustments should only be made once the screen has warmed up- at least an hour- otherwise if you move the converergence too early, then it will be out next time you turn it on.

    Despite these things to consider, if you have the space and don't mind spending an hour or so to get it set up right in the first instance, then I would highly recommend the Tosh. Mine cost around £1800 over 3 yrs ago (saving £700 against £2500 Retail) so £999 for the 51inch is a bargain!

    Regards

    rkb
     
  4. dog-man

    dog-man
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    I know nothing about RP tv's so this may be a silly question.


    Is there any noise from the tv?

    I am assuming that the projector makes a noise, or is it silent?


    In the specs, it says that the weight is 65kg, is that correct? That is really heavy.

    You mention using "Avia" to alter settings, what is that?


    Steve..
     
  5. rkb

    rkb
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    Hi

    the TV projects using 3 CRT tubes via an internal mirror onto the screen.
    No fan- no noise.

    Avia is a DVD used to calibrate home cinema systems - both sound and vision- correct contrast/brightness/hues/speaker placement etc.
    Avia is NTSC based, there is a PAL one- called Digital Video essentials or something similar. You can get either disc from Piero Milani in the pwerbuys section.

    The weight will be correct- yes it is heavy! Need 2 people to move it.

    Cheers

    rkb
     
  6. dog-man

    dog-man
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    Thanks.


    I take it then that there are no real downsides to buying this type of tv?


    I intend ordering it tomorrow.




    Steve..
     
  7. wildy

    wildy
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    Just bought one, today but from currys and found this forum, can any one post any links with regards to tweaking these tvs?? Coming on friday...

    Also this tv has progressive scan , my dvd player also , can this be used through a standard scart..
     
  8. dog-man

    dog-man
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    Can I ask what size room it will be in?


    the reason I ask, is that when looking at one at my local store, I found that the further away I was from the screen, the better the picture. Mind you, they did have it smack in front of the entrance doors, and in a dark area.



    Steve..
     
  9. wildy

    wildy
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    I would say i would sit about 5 metres away from the tv, the room is about 7x12m..
     
  10. Laurel&Hardy

    Laurel&Hardy
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    That can't be a WH46 then...Must be the WH36 :)

    Progressive is normally available through the component video input. I don't think SCART supports it.
     
  11. wildy

    wildy
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    i dont think this tv has component in :mad:
     
  12. wildy

    wildy
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  13. Laurel&Hardy

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  14. wildy

    wildy
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    Recommend any good scarts, and what are the best settings for optimum veiwing please..
     
  15. dog-man

    dog-man
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    Apart from needing the space to house a 51 inch rear projector TV, is there a minimum size room for a TV of this size for technical reasons rather than the amount of space it takes?



    Steve..
     
  16. Demon

    Demon
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    There are 'considerations' that may affect the minimum recommended viewing distance for the following reasons
    1. Vignetting - Technically as you get below about 5 feet from the TV, due to the nature of projection, you may notice a slight dimming of the picture in the corners, which although occurs, is not that objectionable.. Sit 6feet+ away, and it should be uniform accross the whole screen.
    2. Viewing Angles - This is one that most people complain about in Curry's and I for one wouldn't defend it.. in Curry's all RPTV's look pants when it comes to viewing angles, and only getting one in your front room will convince you!!, but obviously as with say LCD PC monitors, as your viewing angle to the screen gets larger, the picture will get less bright.. now on the 51wh36, Toshiba do have very good horizontal viewing angles.. And anyway, even if the picture gets even 50% dimmer, it is still very watchable.. and becuase its uniformly lit, it looks fine..
    3. Screen size - There is also the factor of magnification. Obvioulsy the 51" TV is magnifying a normal image upto that size.. and the problem is that like blowing up what looks like a super sharp, in focus photograph to twice or three times its size, when scrutinised closely it will no doubt look soft, yet move the picture to a suitable distance and it looks sharp again.. This applies to a 51"RPTV... normal sources like SKY etc, are not that good to start with, and really the RPTV does an excellent job of magnifying it up to that huge size.. In fact if properly setup, you can easily see all the tiny scan lines in between the lines that make the picture up.. So sitting less then 5 feet or so, and text will look slightly soft, and as I find, on some sky channels the text is blurry anyway, so it only looks worse blown up.. however, viewing say teletext, the text looks not bad at all, even at 5 feet away..
    The whole issue of screen size is always debated.. people claiming that they just need to sit closer to their 32" or 36" TV to make it look bigger, but with a 51" at any viewing distance, their is almost exactly double the viewable area of a 36" TV..

    From my experience, I find that sitting 9 ft+ is optimum, it looks pin sharp, and you can't see any artefacts from SKY, etc that are just part of SKY's transmission. Sitting about 6 feet away (as I do sometimes), you may notice slight softness to some text, and may see artefacts in the source image on poor quality tranmissions etc..
    Sit less then 6 feet away, and you just need to relax and watch the TV, as you will start to notice focus/uniformity of brightness etc, you can easily get used to it, but it will be there...


    Just to put your mind at rest, I was taking photo's of the kids at my Brother Halloween party, and he has a large front room with a 51wh36 in it, which inevitable got into some of the photo's.. so here's a crop of a photo showing the TV as viewed by my Camera at about 6-8 feet away at a viewing angle of more than 45 degrees..

    [​IMG]

    Note: The picture appears initially to darken towards the edges, this was just part of the cartoon scene, if you look closely, you can see highlights of the textures that remain bright right to the edge. The scene was slowly panning, and the shutter speed of the camera was low, so it will look 'soft'..

    IMPORTANT
    When you first get the TV, no doubt it will look very different to anything you've had before, and I can assure you that initially things like normal TV may look 'harsh'/'revealing' this means that for example, Eastenders on SKY has many transmission artefacts, and you can see them all!!!.. and the picture is eye-searingly bright..
    My advice is.. use something like AVIA or VIDEO ESSENTIALS (available in the power-buys forums) to set your TV up, I did have some 'starting values' in my tips 'n' tweak for the 51wh36 thread I did a while back.. This may make it look initially different (and some people find it 'horrible).. but give it 2 weeks, and your eyes will be used to it.. you will stop seeing the harshness, and start appreciating the set.. and this is the time to really tweak....

    I know 10 people with the 51wh36, and we all found the first week 'different'.. I questioned my purchase within the first 5 minutes, as everything looked raw and harsh.. but this is just because you can see all the detail.. something you will appreciate when it comes to good quality DVD's..
     
  17. dog-man

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    Thank you for that most useful and interesting reply.



    Steve.. :clap:
     
  18. wildy

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  19. Laurel&Hardy

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    RE: Demon's message.

    I find my 51WH36 is totally ruthless with anything that is not a good signal. Telewest Digital TV service particularly has some horrific artefacts borne out of bandwidth limiting and this TV shows all of them with depressing clarity! Conversely the DVD looks absolutely amazing and every time I watch a film I am reminded why I bought this TV - for its stunning picture clarity. I have never seen any CRT based RPTV get close to this for picture dynamics and detail and I looked at a few big ones before I got this one. I almost wish I got the 57" now!!

    I would say I agree that when I first turned it on and saw the picture for the first time I did question my judgement for getting it. But after a little tweaking and setting the picture controls correctly I soon felt vindicated. Why on earth Toshiba set the TV to 100% contrast / 50% brightness and colour with black stretch on and SVM at max (reset 1) beats the hell out of me. It looks absolutely horrid in this mode!

    And one day (when I get time!) I'm going to line the inside of mine with non-reflective material to minimise the occasional light aberration effect with certain pictures, and get the blue focus sorted - my only complaint about my set, although to be fair it is only slightly out on the mechanical adjustment. Then I'll be well happy!
     
  20. dog-man

    dog-man
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    I notice that people are talking about a 51WH36 on here. I am considering buying the 51WH46.

    What is the difference between the 36 and 46 if any?




    Steve..
     
  21. plaver

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    The was taken from the specs from the currys web site
    Viewable Screen Size 42.1 inches
    It must have shrunk in the wash
     
  22. Laurel&Hardy

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    The 2 main differences are:

    WH36:

    Active vision, 100Hz modes are active, natural, 100Hz, progressive.
    3 SCARTS (2 RGB) + Component video input (essential for progressive scan) and audio out

    WH46:

    Basic 100Hz scanning only.
    3 SCARTS (2 RGB) + audio out, no component video.

    The difference in picture quality I saw between the 42WH36 and 46 was quite marked. The picture on the WH36 looks effortless with bags of detail and crisp, vibrant images, whereas the WH46 looks harsh and jittery, with loss of fine detail and the images looked somewhat washed out in comparison.

    I've said it before in another thread, but I think Tosh's RPTV's this year are a big step backwards compared to what they have done in the past.
     
  23. dog-man

    dog-man
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    Hmmm, Currys web site says that the 51WH46 has all the above features.

    So who is wrong?



    Steve..
     
  24. lynx

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  25. dog-man

    dog-man
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    Just found the specs on toshiba's site and the 51WH46 does definately have all the above .

    I think I will now be getting one.



    Steve..
     
  26. wildy

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    I dont think they have component in, i looked in the shop, and if you download instructions no sign of component, but the main factor for me is a 51" tv for a grand , even if it isnt as good as the previous model still a bargain..
    Also my father purchased the 42" a month or so ago and to be honest i was blown away by it...Its still a step up from a 32" samsung tv which cost me £700 3 years ago..
     
  27. dog-man

    dog-man
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    According to Toshiba's own web site it does have component input.

    Here is the link. It is a pdf link.


    http://www.home-entertainment.toshiba.co.uk/consumer/information.nsf/pages/all_products/$File/mini_brochure.pdf?openelement


    Copy this into your browser and see for yourself.



    Steve..
     
  28. lynx

    lynx
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    A further 7.5% can be discounted using code DCBYAW or if your an NHS employee use the NHS code.
     
  29. wildy

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    well ive looked at the model in the shop no component , my dads hasnt got component, and the manual doesnt mention component, unless its behind a panel i havent really studied the set the set....I know power house sell the older model with component in 42" for £800.....Ive seen the set with standard rgb scart and it impressed me ..
     
  30. Laurel&Hardy

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    Don't ask me what's going on there - the tosh brochure shows the 42 and 51WH46 then gives the specs for the WH36 series!!! Go to the website I posted in an earlier post and click on the owners manual - there is no mention of component video, active vision or progressive scan anywhere in it. Bizarre!

    But I have seen the 42WH46 up close and personal - I wanted to know if they had developed the PJ format further. Sadly I was disappointed. It doesn't have component in or active vision with all the various scanning modes, particularly progressive. But it was not just this that I found disappointing - the picture quality was lacking as I described in my last post. This was no WH36 Mk II. In my opinion the WH46 series is a large step backwards. I doubt the 51" will be any different.
     

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