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opinions on hyperfi deal

Discussion in 'Shopping, Deals, Discounts & Bargains' started by Pete Delaney, Jun 21, 2003.

  1. Pete Delaney

    Pete Delaney
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    Hyperfi are currently advertising Celestion A Series Cinema 1 and 2 with alledged price reductions of £1800 and £2500 respectively!

    cinema1 is now £699.99 comprises b-stock:

    2 A1 150 watt fronts
    2 a5r 150 watt surrounds
    1 c1i 120 watt centre
    1 a6s 200 watt active sub

    The series 2 is similar but with:

    2 a2 220 watt fronts. and costs£999

    This is an apparent huge price reduction, however, if it seems to good to be true it probably is.
    I don't know what the b stock definition is but would welcome any thoughts on these systems and the offer...

    TIA Pete:zonked:
     
  2. nathan_silly

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    A mate has the A5's, very nice sound- great treble. Dipole effect could be better - could be wider- still nice speakers.

    General Skanky has the A1's.

    I think some of them are 4 Ohm speakers, so would recommend a decent poweramp, not a AV amp. 100W will be OK for the standmounts, preferbly 150-200W for the floorstanders needed.

    Nice speakers. IMO better than most, and certainly a bargain if in stock.
     
  3. Pete Delaney

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    Crumbs!!
    Sounds like it's not a duff set up then Nathan?

    Might give them a ring for more detailed spec, regardless of the price drop I would want to be certain it's £700 well spent..... I can see my wallet from here and it has credit cards with zero balance on them!!
    Must..try..resist..must throw wallet into garden hedge...can't help myself.......wife will beat me...wallet taking over rational thoughts.....arghh:zonked:
     
  4. Sigismund

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    I would suggest that your first port of call should be to telephone Hyperfi to check whether they have what you want in stock. I live not far from their shop, and, in my experience, one needs to be super-quick to find such deals in stock.

    Good luck! :)
     
  5. nathan_silly

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    Oh just noticed the centre- not from the A range. I would ask them to bundle in the A range centre.. if not remove that centre from the package and ask Celestion if they have any in stock somewhere.

    I think Mark Ward uses the A range centre, he seems to compare it similar to a Kef Model Reference 200 centre (£700 rrp) I have a Kef 200, it's fab... so if they're similar then I would snap one up ASAP!
     
  6. Pete Delaney

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    The only thing holding me back is I do not have the chance to audition or examine the 'b-stock' speakers. I imagine they are not defective in sound but the cabinets may be imperfect..

    Nathan I looked in my mag and they do not stock an A series centre speaker.

    I'll give them a ring ...back soon..
     
  7. Pete Delaney

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    well they have them in stock and resistance is 6 to 8 ohm...what do you think, should I go for it?
     
  8. nathan_silly

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    What are your current speakers?

    What AV amp/poweramp are you using?

    Would you replace the AV amp if it's not adequate?
     
  9. Pete Delaney

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    Currently AE120 front and AE150 centre old set of monitor audio studio 5 rears no sub and sony strdb 930 amp. would upgrade amp.
     
  10. nathan_silly

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    I'm pretty sure 4 Ohm...

    Celestion A-1 Bookshelf Speakers; Two-way design; One 7" polypropylene woofer; One 1" titanium dome tweeter; Vented box design; One 2 1/4" flared port on rear; Cloth grille; Frequency response 43 - 20 kHz ± 2 dB; Sensitivity 88 dB/w/m; Nominal impedance 4 Ohms; Bi-wirable; Size 16"H x 9.5"W x 14"D; Weight 31 pounds each; Cherry veneer: $1,499/pair; Rosewood: $1,699/pair; USA Distributor: Adcom, Inc., 11 Elkins Road, East Brunswick, New Jersey 08816; Phone 908-390-1130; Fax 908-390-9152.



    The magnetically shielded Celestion A4c centre loudspeaker is of similar design but finished in boring old matt grey to match the majority of televisions out there. Two 6½inch mid/low frequency drivers flank a titanium dome 1inch tweeter and a 4inch midrange driver. Priced at £500 the A4c is up against some stiff competition from the likes of KEF, Ruark, Paradigm and Mission, all considerably less expensive. The Celestion centre is another 4ohm design and has a sensitivity of 88dB, so once again, an amplifier with "oomph" is recommended.


    The owner's manual indicates a frequency response of 100Hz to 20kHz, this would suggest problems using anything other than the Dolby Pro-logic "normal" crossover setting, some information would be lost with a THX or equivalent 80Hz bass-split. However, publicity material from Celestion quotes a response of 65Hz to 20kHz. Both subjective listening and RTA measurements convinced me that the real-world response, aided by the fact that this is a sealed enclosure is somewhere between the two, but I did feel that with an 80Hz crossover a little lower midrange content was lacking.

    Taken from SMR & a magazine review.

    Looks like replacing the Sony is a must!
     
  11. Pete Delaney

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    The price has gone up but not by much.. this guy says it's not b-stock and the rears are A compacts not A1s...the plot thickens:zonked:
     
  12. Pete Delaney

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    Thanks Nathan I figured the sony would be showing it's age...can get the speakers for under £800, will I be a proud owner or just an impulsive skint bloke who thought he was getting something for nothing (relatively speaking):confused:
     
  13. nathan_silly

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    If you can get the A centre as well (either from Hyperfi or from Celestion or second hand/from a shop) yes I would go for it.

    Need to get something like the Rotel 1075 5x100W, minimum. You need a high current amp.
     
  14. buns

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    Hey there..... i have a full set of A series.......6x A1's. A couple of points.

    1. Make totally sure of the grade of the speakers, i tried to get my final pair of A1's from hyperfi b stock and was told they really were hit and miss on the condition (by hyperfi themselves).

    2. The loss of a matching centre is more of a problem than you might initially assume. The A1's are very powerful speakers and i find it hard to imagine the c series centre will have any prayer in coming close to proving an adequate centre image.

    3. The impedence of the A1's is definitely 4 ohm. That is not their lowest and they will frequently go down to 2. I tried running a pair of an old yamaha A5 and sinply ended up tripping the protection circuitry on any sort of loud sequence.

    4. To add to the diving of the speakers issue....... these speakers were rarely given the praise hey desired. The A1's retailed at 900 pounds and were thus matched with similar amps. This didnt necessarily work and it turns out that these speakers need a really high end amp to get them sparkling.

    It all depends on your plans i would say. If you are planning on building a top system over the next while it is a good buy if you can get new stock. You could probably mix and match and get a full new A series system from various sources for under a grand total....... but you would be missing out on the sub (which i know nothig about). But if you dont intend to be moving into a good power amp set up (the rotel suggested should be a minimum) then you just will not get your moneys worth.

    all the best

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  15. Pete Delaney

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    well thanks everyone for your 'sound,' advice (he,he,he). If the kit is all new I think I may take a chance. In the long run I want to upgrade everything but I am worried about the amount of dough I will need to spend to get the speakers in the goove!:smashin:
     
  16. Pete Delaney

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    well I have not yet taken the plunge, the worry over driving the speakers is the problem (I knew there had to be a catch somewhere).
    I have been looking for a suitable amp but I don't fully understand the technicalities. Most quote watts per channel at 8 ohms eg 5 100w channels at 8 ohms, so for 4 ohms of resistance is the power quartered, halved or what (pardon the punn)?
    Can anyone shed any light on the tech specs I should look for if I am to comfortably drive the Celestion A1s?

    TIA Pete:rolleyes:
     
  17. nathan_silly

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    When amplifier is measured, it's (usually) into 8 Ohms, RMS, at 20hz-20khz, with a certain % of THD (Total Harmonic Distortion)

    So a decent amp will have...examples..

    100W into 8Ohm, both channels driven, 20-20khz, 0.05%THD
    and when used into 4 Ohm speakers a high quality amp will double (but distortion usually slightly increase) so..

    200W into 4Ohm, both channels driven, 20-20khz, 0.20%THD

    Usually reasonably priced amp (under £1000) won't double when used into 4 Ohm, but as long as it's 50% more (100W into 8Ohm, 150W into 4Ohm) it's OK.

    It's only when the quoted figure into 4 Ohm is lower than that into 8 Ohm (100W into 8Ohm, 70W into 4Ohm) that I would avoid that amp. That means the amp has a insufficient power supply.

    Don't skimp on the poweramp, that Rotel 1075 like Buns said is a MINIMUM, if you could stretch to 150-200W per channel high current poweramp (into 8Ohm) that'll help.
     
  18. Pete Delaney

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    Thanks again Nathan I have learned lots today! Now back to my quest:smashin:
     
  19. Pete Delaney

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    Out of intersest I dug out my strdb 930 manual. It says the sony has an 8 ohm and a 4 ohm impedence selection switch at the back of the amp and the power rating is quoted at 4ohm is 5 channels at 100w. this is exactly the same as what it quotes for 8ohms ie 5 100w channels. This, from what Nathan suggests is not powerful enough, it makes me wonder why the specs in the manual don't give more guidance toward powering speakers. On the face of it you would think the amp is perfectly capable of driving the Celestion A1s as it has a 4 ohm impedence selection available...:confused:

    Oh and 4ohm THD is quoted at0.09, sounds good I suppose.
     
  20. nathan_silly

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    I would strongly recommend you DON'T use the Sony, unless you want fried tweeters.

    IMO Sony AV amps are very poor driving low impedance speakers.

    I would only use the Sony for a couple of minutes at low volumes just to check the speakers work (each treble & woofer in turn) then box it up.

    I've heard the Sony AV amps, they shut off with 4 Ohm speakers, and sounded awful, really ear splitting. Even struggled driving Wharfdale 6 Ohm speakers (could hear distortion)
     
  21. Ian J

    Ian J
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    Just to annoy you, a Denon AVC10SE was sold in the classifieds this morning for £400 after hanging about for a couple of days.

    This pumps out 125 watts per channel of quality amplification into 8 ohms and is what I use to drive my 4 ohm M&K speakers
     
  22. Pete Delaney

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    OK Nathan, I get the message, I guess it's back to the drawing board. I can't stretch to the speakers and a high quality amp at the moment. It's a shame to dip out on such a speaker bargain, however, half the exitement of upgrading is in the hunt (he said as if to convince/console himself)!
     
  23. Pete Delaney

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    Yes..thanks for that Ian, I'll be off to find a large cliff then....:suicide:

    Not the most succesful of shopping days I've had...worst of all is the wife casually asking if I'd bought those speaker thingies yet?!!!
     
  24. Pete Delaney

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    Yamaha RXV1300rds
    AV Receiver

    Only £599.95
    Was £899.95
    Prices includes VAT @ 17.5% & p/p to mainland UK

    Would this do the trick???

    Everything You Want in a Home Receiver, Plus Numerous Yamaha Features for Greater Enjoyment.

    Versatile, high performance receiver designed to serve as the core component of any high quality home cinema system. Major features include 6-channel discrete amplification (100W x 6, RMS), Yamaha's Digital ToP-ART design concept, Quad-Field Cinema DSP, 25 surround programmes, SILENT CINEMA, and learning-capable/present remote control. Compatible with the newest 6.1-channel movie sound formats including Dolby Digital EX, DTS-ES Matrix 6.1, DTS-ES Discrete 6.1, Dolby Pro Logic II and DTS Neo:6.

    The RX-V1300RDS has the following main features:

    High Power 6-Channel Discrete Amplifier Configuration (100W x 6 RMS; 145W x 6 DIN)
    Digital ToP-ART (Total Purity Audio Reproduction Technology)
    Powerful 32-bit Yamaha LSI(YSS-938) for CINEMA DSP processing
    Compatibility with latest movie sound formats including Dolby Digital EX, Dolby Pro Logic II, DTS-ES Discrete 6.1, and DTS Neo:6
    192kHz/24-bit system DAC
    25 surround programmes including Quad-Field CINEMA DSP programmes
    Accurate touch digitally regulated volume control governs all channels (Yamaha YAC-520 LSI)

    Audio Section
    Minimum RMS Output Power (8 ohms, 20–20,000 Hz, 0.04% THD)
    Main Channels 100W + 100W
    Centre Channel 100W +
    Rear Channels 100W + 100W
    Rear Centre Channel 100W
    DIN Standard Power (4 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.7% THD)
    Main Channels 145W + 145W
    Centre Channel 145W +
    Rear Channels 145W + 145W
    Rear Centre Channel 145W
    High Dynamic Power & Low Impedance Drive Capability Yes
    Dynamic Power/Channel
    8 ohms 140 W
    6 ohms 170 W
    4 ohms 205 W
    2 ohms 245 W
    Linear Damping Yes
    Damping Factor (8 ohms, 20–20,000 Hz) 80 (speaker A)
    Input Sensitivity/Impedance
    Phono (MM) 2.5 mV/47 k-ohms
    CD 150 mV/47 k-ohms
    Frequency Response 10–100,000 Hz -3 dB
    CD (Main Sp Out) 0.04%
    Signa-to-Noise Ratio (CD, 250 mV) 100 dB
    Tone Control Characteristics
    Bass Boost/Cut +10 dB 50 Hz
    Bass Turnover Frequency 350 Hz
    Treble Boost/Cut +10 dB 20 Hz
    Treble Turnover Frequency 3.5 Hz
    Bass Extension Characteristics (60 Hz) 6 dB
    Video Section
    Video Signal Level 1 Vp-p/75 ohms
    S-Video Signal Level
    Y 1 Vp-p/75 ohms
    C 0.286 Vp-p/75 ohms
    Component Video Signal Level
    Y 1 Vp-p/75 ohms
    Pb/Cb, Pr/Cr 0.7 Vp-p/75 ohms
    Signal-to-Noise Ratio 50 dB
    Monitor Out Frequency Response
    Composite/S-Video Signal 5 Hz–10MHz -3 dB
    Component Video Signal DC-60MHz -3 dB
    Tuner Section
    FM 50dB Quieting Sensitivity (1 kHz, 100% Modulation)
    Mono 2 µV (17.3 dBf)
    Stereo 25 µV (39.2 dBf)
    FM Selectivity 400 kHz, 70 dB
    FM Signal-to-Noise Ratio Mono/Stereo 76 dB/70 dB
    FM Frequency Response 20–15,000 hz, +0.5/–2 dB
    General
    Weight 15 kg
    Dimensions (W x H x D) 435 x 171 x 434 mm


    ;) ;)
     
  25. nathan_silly

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    I was going to say that amp manu. use different methods of making the specs look better. The 1Khz tone & DIN rating is one of them.

    "Would this do the trick???"

    I would say No. But that's just me. I would rather use a amp that I know has plenty of power/current, than frying my tweeters.

    The main importance is still the power supply. Any amp could have 500W output, but if the amp just falls over as soon as you connect 4Ohm speakers up it's pretty much a waste of time.
     
  26. Pete Delaney

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    Nathan I hope you realise you are slowly talking me int a 4 figure upgrade!!:zonked: You are a bad person (probably mistreated in your youth). Back to the search, I WILL be succesful!!!;)
     
  27. nathan_silly

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    Hee hee! :)

    If your Sony AV amp has pre-outs for the channels you could look around for second hand poweramps- a mate has the Rotel 993 and a Rotel 991 (3 channel and 2 channel respectively) 200W per channel into 8Ohm, THX. They're available ~£300-£400 sec/hand. No doubt just a teeny bit better than the Yamaha's poweramp section!

    You could then throw the Sony into the canal and look for something better quality, plenty of AV processors around.
     
  28. Pete Delaney

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    No Nathan I don't care anymore.. I'm just going to end up spending ALOT of money and I shall tell the wife it's all YOUR fault...:zonked: I'm on the edge, I'm definatley losing it (lost it actually), oh well it's only money. I expect the kids could eat roots and berries for a few months:devil:
     
  29. Pete Delaney

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    OK Nathan what about this one?

    PIONEER VSX-D2011-S
    If there were any justice in the world, you’d look in the dictionary, and under ‘versatility’, there’s be a picture of the VSX-D2011-S smiling up at you confidently. ‘But is it REALLY versatile?’ you ask. Well, if we said to you it’s capable of decoding pretty much every format known to man, including 96/24 DTS, THX Surround EX, Dolby Digital EX & Pro Logic 2, DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 and DTS-NEO:6, we think you’d agree, that’s pretty versatile. ‘But partner might leave me if I put seven speakers up!’, you cry. Well, Pioneer have come up with a clever concept: the VSX-D2011-S can be used in five channel mode, with the extra two channels of amplification utilised for bi-amping the front pair, adding greater control and slam. Then when your partner has got used to having five speakers and a sub, just stick up an extra pair, reaping the rewards of 7.1. They’ll never notice!Dimensions: 420mmWx188Hx464D


    Price: £670.00


    ;)
     
  30. buns

    buns
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    lol ive been missing out! My own personal opinion would be to forget the integrated amp solution, even the very top denon i would imagine will have its difficulties driving 5 or 6 x 4ohm. And dont forget that you want more than to simply drive them! :D

    Take my example. I have 6 A1's but am only currently using 5. My cinema amp is that yamaha A5. BUT i have 3 enormous slavic power amps linked to is. I will later in the summer upgrade to a good amp but this current set up is a pretty good bridge. I suggest that this would be a good route for you to take. The rotel 1075 can be had for 600/700 odds. Use it with your sony and the A series ad you have a very good set up. You can then upgrade the processor at a later date.

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