Opinions appreciated on DTS-ES/DD-EX installation

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obo

Guest
Hi there!

Hopefully some of you are able to help me with the following problem. Currently I have a DD setup consisting of a Denon AVR-3801 receiver, a pair of B&W 604 S2 for fronts, a B&W CC6 as a center speaker and a pair of B&W 602 S2 speakers as rears. I must say, it sounds terrific. Since there are more and more DTS-ES and DD-EX DVD titles out there I was planning on expanding my setup with two extra surround back speakers.

So off I went to my favorite B&W retailer whom I've trusted for years when purchasing new stuff. His suggestion was to add two extra 602's because then I would have the same quality of sound from all directions. I wasn't too sure about this though, I mean, do I really need speakers that can be so loud for this one extra channel in the DTS-ES and DD-EX tracks? Can't I just settle for two 600's instead? And another problem, my setup is all series 2, which is no longer in production since they have been replaced with the series 3. Will those two series mix together properly? I would go and listen to this combination of series were it not for the fact that my retailer doesn't have series 2 any longer.

So I'm kinda stuck in a dilemma, will I go for the large 602's series 3 to have the same speakers all around the back, or can I do with the smaller 600's series 3?

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated,

Cheers,

Dennis
 
B

bob007

Guest
Originally posted by obo
So off I went to my favorite B&W retailer whom I've trusted for years when purchasing new stuff. His suggestion was to add two extra 602's because then I would have the same quality of sound from all directions.
Still trust them, IMO it was good advice.
Originally posted by obo
Hi there!
I wasn't too sure about this though, I mean, do I really need speakers that can be so loud for this one extra channel in the DTS-ES and DD-EX tracks?
Don't forget that the 6 channels you will be using on the 3801 have identical amplification and can reproduce the full range of frequencies.
Originally posted by obo
Hi there!
And another problem, my setup is all series 2, which is no longer in production since they have been replaced with the series 3. Will those two series mix together properly? I would go and listen to this combination of series were it not for the fact that my retailer doesn't have series 2 any longer.
How about taking your series 2's along and see if they match, or will the dealer let you try a home demo with a pair of series 3's.
Originally posted by obo
Hi there!
So I'm kinda stuck in a dilemma, will I go for the large 602's series 3 to have the same speakers all around the back, or can I do with the smaller 600's series 3?
IMO I would go for the same all round, that's if you can determine that the series 2's/series 3's do indeed match, as for the the smaller 600's they may have different sound characteristics due to their difference in size, then again only a demo will confirm this.

Hope this helps.
 

petrolhead

Well-known Member
I have just changes my setup. I have the 3802 and had 2 x Eltac Dipols at the rear. Now that I have changed the fronts I have a spare ctr speaker and what a difference.

Therefore it may be an idea to try another B&W CC6 for your rear surrround channel. Remember with the rear surround your should keep, when running 2 speakers, max 1 mtr appart.

I you want to got the 2 spk route then 2 x B&W 600
 
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bob007

Guest
Originally posted by petrolhead

Therefore it may be an idea to try another B&W CC6 for your rear surrround channel
The B&W CC6 is a centre speaker and IMO is not suitable for surround back duties. Remember the surround back is not a centre channel.

Centre channels are designed for centre channel use only, they have totally different characteristics to the speakers that are normally recommended for this application. ;)
 

petrolhead

Well-known Member
Fair point bob but I have you ever tried one? Centre that is :D
 
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bob007

Guest
Originally posted by petrolhead
Fair point bob but I have you ever tried one?
Yes I have. When I upgraded to the Denon I connected a Tannoy MC I had kicking about, wasn't impressed with the results. ;)
 
Imo it is best to use just one back channel , ive experimented with both and get far better results with just 1. Dont agree at all with Bob about totally different characteristics for the centre channel, in an ideal world you would have identical speakers for all the channels.
 
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bob007

Guest
Originally posted by installer09
Dont agree at all with Bob about totally different characteristics for the centre channel
IMO a typical centre speaker (like the two that have been mentioned) that is placed in a system with speakers that are regarded as surrounds have a - Different shape, size, number of drivers, lay out of drivers and dispersion, IMO this has to account for something. Doesn't the centre channel at the front act in a different way to the mains?

Originally posted by installer09
in an ideal world you would have identical speakers for all the channels.
Have said no different, in fact I have just gave that advice to my son to which he took and the system sounds great.
 
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Inukjuak

Guest
Originally posted by installer09
Dont agree at all with Bob about totally different characteristics for the centre channel, in an ideal world you would have identical speakers for all the channels.
So if you don't agree with Bob about the different characteristics of a centre channel I take it from your statement above that you would be completely happy with 6 identical centre speakers then, I don't think so.
 

petrolhead

Well-known Member
Taking this further. We are told that we use should speakers with all the same timbre.

Based on that, yes we may not want all centres but would we want all mains. Look at M&K, all their front are the same and you could do the same at the back.

Everyone is different and I would never discount having a centre until trying. As you said bob you did and did not like it but I also did and did like it. (lots of dids eh :))

Peter
 

johna

Active Member
I have the 3801 and the b&w S2 range, I use a CC6 as rear center, (only running 1 rear center)

I swaped around and tries my 601 as the rear center and couldn't hear any noticable difference

The CC6 does the Job great, I would however keep the same range if possible. There isn't a danger in using s2 and s3 range in the same setup. I added a Lc6 s3 center speaker to my set up and only noticed an improvement.
 
The centre speaker should be the same as the left and right front speaker ( which is why speaker manufactures use the same drivers in there centre speakers as there front speakers ) the only difference being is that it is a more conveniant shape to place above or below the moniter.
 

petrolhead

Well-known Member
The centre speaker should be the same as the left and right front speaker ( which is why speaker manufactures use the same drivers in there centre speakers as there front speakers ) the only difference being is that it is a more conveniant shape to place above or below the moniter.
But the shape/size of the box will also effect how it sounds as well.
 
Yes it will affect the way it sounds which is why in an ideal world you would use the same speaker as your left and right .
 
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bob007

Guest
Originally posted by installer09
Dont agree at all with Bob about totally different characteristics for the centre channel
Originally posted by installer09
Yes it will affect the way it sounds which is why in an ideal world you would use the same speaker as your left and right .
Make your mind up. :D
 
Totally different - slightly different!!!:D
 
O

obo

Guest
Whoa! Loads of replies :) Thanx all for giving advice, I'll just go and ask my retailer if I can lend the speakers first to try them out at home. Good point btw bob007, since my denon amplifier gives equal amplification to all channels, it might be better to choose the same type of speaker. Now let's spend! spend! spend! :)

Greetz,

Dennis
 
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Inukjuak

Guest
Originally posted by installer09
The centre speaker should be the same as the left and right front speaker ( which is why speaker manufactures use the same drivers in there centre speakers as there front speakers ) the only difference being is that it is a more conveniant shape to place above or below the moniter.
There are literally dozens of centre speakers out there that have the same drivers as the main stereo pair, from the same manufacturer, and they still sound inferior.

Just sticking the same drivers in various shaped enclosers don't make everything perform and sound the same.

Well at least it's comforting to know the manufacturers have got one thing right, "the shape". :rolleyes:
 
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bob007

Guest
Originally posted by installer09
Imo it is best to use just one back channel , ive experimented with both and get far better results with just 1.
Originally posted by installer09
I have one 77ds as a rear speaker , its not very good at all ,
Originally posted by installer09
Dont agree at all with Bob about totally different characteristics for the centre channel,
Originally posted by installer09
Yes it will affect the way it sounds
Originally posted by installer09
Totally different - slightly different!!!:D
Totally different - Slightly confused. :p
 
I have got far better results with one back speaker, 2 ,77ds were awful , 1 was a little better , 1 CDM SNT is much better.
 

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