Online retailers using expired cards

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Toasty, Aug 29, 2013.

  1. Toasty

    Toasty
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    I had a love film free years subscription that ran out recently, I needed to give credit card details to activate it and simply cancel if I didn't want to pay for it. However, I had a new replacement credit card a few months ago so thought I didn't need to cancel as the card payment would fail. Checked my credit card bill and Love film took a payment for this month. I logged into Lovefilm and my account shows an expired card, but payment is showing on my bill and I have LoveFilm up until then end of September. I'm not too bothered about the lost fiver as I'll catch up with a couple of films I'd earmarked before cancelling properly through the website. I am bother that payment was taken with no complaint though.

    I experienced similar things with ticketmaster and amazon, these did complain when trying to make a payment with the expired card, but simply adjusting the expiry date validated the card, I didn't need to enter the new 3 digit security code on the back of the card (definitley different to previous card number). So this all feels very insecure to me. Anyone have the same or know why expired card details simply just work?
     
  2. Jameskatie

    Jameskatie
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    Sorry no help but you mention amazon, and love film is amazon now
     
  3. Toasty

    Toasty
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    Hehe, good point, but I didn't update Amazon card details before the love film payment was taken.
     
  4. Anthony-Howard

    Anthony-Howard
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    Could be any number of things really.

    Some issuers fail to change card numbers on reissue and have a fixed window of validity so that providing you know the previous dates you can derive current and even future dates.

    Some merchants and payment service providers do not always insist on the expiry date (Some go the other way and demand a start date).

    For repeat billing the merchants can get a transactional ID to make further payments against and so don't need the card details again. The ID will be linked to your account and not your card so even if the card changes they can still process a transaction based on the original terms of the repeat billing agreement.

    Not all merchants insist on a CVV/CVC for cardholder not present transactions and some just insist on the CVV/CVC for first time purchases and then do not require it for subsequent transactions.

    It is all based on the level of risk that the merchant is willing to accept together with its acquirer and/or payment services provider. I know that Amazon in particular have very tight metrics for the performance of their payment solution and the user experience and as such have resisted pressure to use mechanisms like CVV/CVC verification and 3DS/VBV as it adds an extra step. If it is any consolation merchants like Amazon who are willing to accept a higher level of risk probably pay a higher interchange rate per transaction from the acquirer providing them merchant services.

    Cheers,

    Tony.
     
  5. Mr.D

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    Most CC companies will allow you a couple of months overlap when your card expires for standing orders. They know its you , they know its your account so they don't sweat it. Don't rely on a card expiring to halt payments and always destroy old cards as you may be surprised to find they still work.
     
  6. Anthony-Howard

    Anthony-Howard
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    You will probably find that you can't in fact setup a standing order from a credit card. Stranding orders are instructions given to a bank from a payer to transfer money to a payee. You can of course setup a repeat billing using a credit card whereby the payee charges the card using stored details or uses a repeat billing ID setup between itself and its bank.

    I am not aware of any issuer that allows for an expired card to be used after the end of its month of expiry except in cases where the PAN has not changed for the replacement card and the merchant/PSP does not provide the expiry and has an arrangement with their bank not to do so. This may not even happen anymore as expiry dates should be pretty much mandatory and the PAN is increasingly changed on replacement or reissued cards.

    That is not to say that there isn't an issuer that does allow such an overlap like this. I would however take exception to the statement that most do.

    Cheers,

    Tony.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2013
  7. m@rk

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    Visa (and I believe Mastercard) have a scheme that merchants can sign up for where as once you have signed up for a continuous payment order (like a standing order for credit cards) then if you are issued a new card, that merchant gets notified of the new details directly ensuring that people who forget to inform the retailer don't loose out when their magazine subscription stops or their car insurance doesn't renew at the end of the year.

    Oddly this is not something the card companies publicise much
     
  8. Anthony-Howard

    Anthony-Howard
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    Do you have any further details or links you can give about this?

    There are ways to do repeat billing by using an ID/Reference linked to your account number which may not necessarily be the PAN. However what you seem to be suggesting is that updated card details are sent to the merchant for storage to be used for future payment requests which seems counter to the spirit of the payment card regulations and good practice surrounding the retention, or rather non-retention, of data.

    I would be very interested in whatever details you can provide about how this works and what data is sent from where and to whom.

    Cheers,

    Tony.
     
  9. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    MBNA , Barclaycard.
     
  10. Toasty

    Toasty
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    My card in question is MBNA.
     
  11. Anthony-Howard

    Anthony-Howard
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    Just out of interest what logos are on those cards?

    Cheers,

    Tony.
     
  12. Toasty

    Toasty
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    Its actually a play.com visa card, no other logo other than the PayWave for contactless payment. But its issued by MBNA.
     
  13. ldoodle

    ldoodle
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    Natwest allow it as well.

    I got one of those Virgin wine vouchers from Scan, so made use of it. I didn't realise upon placing your first order it sets up an automatic repeatable order.

    And I actually got an email from Virgin Wines mentioning my card had expired but they could still take payment. It also said they recommend updating the details to use the new card so there must be a limited grace period.
     
  14. Anthony-Howard

    Anthony-Howard
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    Were you able to use the card with Virgin wines to purchase something that was not associated with the repeat billing?

    Cheers,

    Tony.
     
  15. ldoodle

    ldoodle
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    Don't know, as I didn't try.
     
  16. Toasty

    Toasty
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    Well, this has certainly opened my eyes, especially where special offers are concerned as they all want cc details to activate them.
     

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