Onkyo TX-NR609 or Denon AVR-2312

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by Undercover82, Dec 28, 2011.

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  1. Undercover82

    Undercover82
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    Now that both the above receivers can be had for pretty much the same price, is the Denon the better deal or not?

    I know the Denon is from the class above (Onkyo TX-NR709 territory) however there are no reviews of this unit anywhere! Will it sound better than the 609 or will the 609 still hold its own?

    I only ask because the Denon AVR-2312 on paper seems to have the same amps as the Denon AVR-1912 - which didn't fair so well against the 609.

    However I am curious that given the extra £200 (at new) of the 2312 then surely it should sound better than the 1912. Also, the more advanced Audyssey system in the Denon plus extra HDMI count are keeping me from ordering the 609.

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. PSM1

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    What speakers do you have?
     
  3. Undercover82

    Undercover82
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    Currently will be partnered Mission 702e floorstanders, 70c1 as centre and 70 x 3 as surrounds, BK XLS 200 sub.

    However all that lot might be used in another room, in which case i'll be looking to purchase a different speaker set for use here. Something like Kef KHT2005.3 or might go discreet with Boston Soundware XS SE. All that's undecided yet though - just getting the receiver first.

    I'm guessing the receivers mentioned don't fall into the same category in terms of warmth?
     
  4. Keiron

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    I too am interested in the Denon (you may also have see the deal at Richer), but again, can't find a single review! How odd.
     
  5. Undercover82

    Undercover82
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    Yes that is where I have seen it too for £399.99 - only £20 more than the Onkyo.
     
  6. dlemon

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    I too am in the same position, only I gone one further and have bought the 609 but have not opened it yet, as I changed from a YAMAHA 1800, now I think it was a bad move backwards, now im taking it back and going to look at the DENON2312, has anyone got one of these 2312 that could give me a opinion on them
    thanks
     
  7. hp1980

    hp1980
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    I'm in the exact same position - ALthough I've not bought my speakers yet, either (thinking of the kefs 3000 5.1 package)

    So far i'm thinking Denon, only because the 4k upscaling is not needed, and from what i've read the Denon has multi eq where as onkyo only has 2eq i think - Also it may or may not matter but the Denon is a cm or so smaler which may matter - I only have a slot in my stand which is 18cms high
     
  8. Undercover82

    Undercover82
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    Well I went ahead yesterday and purchased the Denon from RS. Haven't opened it yet because I'm still umming and arring between the two, and don't want to get stung with the 15% re-stocking fee if I take it back opened. Got 7 days to decide what I'm going to do but 90% sure I am going to keep the Denon.

    On paper/spec it certainly is the better unit. It doesn't everything the 609 does and more. The 4k upscaling isn't anything to consider - surely enough when this res is supported mainstream all the receivers will have better scalers in them.

    I did ask RS of their opinions of the two and they just said the 609 was the better of the two and wanted to sell me that. However they also said they hadn't even tested the 1912 or 2312 so that just makes me question their credibility to even give out recommendations to customers. Do they just go on What HiFi reviews!
     
  9. silent

    silent
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    i am in the same position but listened to the 1912 and 2312 in rayleigh hifi. the 1912 didn't have the same specs as the 609 but they warned me off the onkyo'sand said that the denons were better. the sound between the denons wasn't that vastly different but i listened with £1300 B&W floorstanders and a REL sub which was a good sound. i want a new amp thats good with music to and he explained the denons were better than the onkyo's. he also said about the pre-outs for running stereo and 5.1. i want a pair of floorstanders in the future to play music with a good new turntable in the future with a phono stage added.

    i'm not sure. i keep wanting the 609 but rayleigh hifi in chelmsford have ex-demo 1912's for £299 - no warranties or a 2312 for £399 or 609 for £379. i think RS love what hifi reviews and its a point rayleigh made to. but i rate what hifi as a good mag. i see 1912s are now £300 at RS.

    i currently run a tannoy SFX 5.1 system and need it to run those better.
     
  10. hp1980

    hp1980
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    Bit confused by your 2nd paragraph - Do you mean the denon does everything the Onkyo does?

    I'm thinking Denon more and more - Onkyos seem very unreliable if you read various bits n bobs on the net. also I think RS may have some sort of deal with Onkyo. They love pushing their stuff
     
  11. dante01

    dante01
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    You can buy the AVR1912 for £280 unopened and with full manufacturers warranty:
    Denon AVR-1912 AV Amplifier

    Richer Sounds are also selling the AVR2312 boxed with full warranty for £400:
    Denon AVR2312 Black | AV Receiver | Richer Sounds
     
  12. hp1980

    hp1980
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    Also just found out from another thread something that may force me to go with the Onkyo - Due to my lack of space in the tv cabinet the onkyo may be a better option just because it has a built in fan.

    Onkyo may not be the best of the 2, but it certianly does have a lot going for it - I could always put a slim pc fan or 2 on top of the denon but the hot air will just bounce of the top of the cabinet casing and go straight into the system
     
  13. dante01

    dante01
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    It has a fan because Onkyo amps have a reputation for oerheating. Other amps manage to do without a fan :D


    You can always make it blow the other way and clear the leaves in the garden?


    You still need the same ventilation regardless of the presence of a fan. ;)
     
  14. hp1980

    hp1980
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    hmmm I could also "Make" something using my 'real power workshop' and rig up a few fans behind the unit to create air flow.

    lol - Things just get better. Main reason I'm getting the receiver is my old set up died the other day - The sub blew and it gave me a chance to get the new speakers and av receiver I wanted since we moved into the new place last year. Well anyway I've spent last day or so looking into what I want. Then just now when I went into the living room to measure out the cabinet, incase I'd measured wrong, my bro who is here comes out with "thank god the speakers have died. No more eye sore" Then moves on to "why do you need speakers, the TV ones are fine. Who wants excess noise" "it'll be too loud" "it'll look ugly" "it'll waste electricity" "too many wires"

    If he didn't have a short hair cut I'd swear he was a girl
     
  15. dante01

    dante01
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    Girls can have short hair too :lesson:

    Has he got a squeaky voice and does he wear a dress?
     
  16. hp1980

    hp1980
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    It's not the first time someone has said that haha. Doesn't even watch football :eek: Only if i had a penny for everytime someone has asked me "is he gay" i'd be ****ing rich
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 2, 2012
  17. dante01

    dante01
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    You don't have to be gay not to watch football, wear a dress and have short hair :nono:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 2, 2012
  18. Undercover82

    Undercover82
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    LOL, anyway back on topic.

    hp1980, yes that was a typo earlier. The Denon does everything the Onkyo does and more. What I like in the 2312 is that it gives you the option to use Dynamic Range Control (both DD and DTS) as opposed to Audyssey's Dynamic Volume. Onkyo don't have DRC on DTS. I haven't always found Dynamic Volume ideal on adverts or switching between Sky channels.
     
  19. hp1980

    hp1980
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    Thought as much. Now to see when the next bank holiday is so I can order my sh*t and "waste" a day trying to hook it all up
     
  20. hp1980

    hp1980
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    Oh, btw - Does the denon have pass though so it doesn't make use of the 5.1 speakers when not turned on
     
  21. dante01

    dante01
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    No AV amp applies DRC on anything but Dolby encoded material. DRC is a proprietary technology owned by Dolby Labs. Many amps have alternatives to DRC alongside Dolby's DRC. Yamaha have Adaptive DRC for example and other amps simply call such modes night modes. Dolby DRC is included on all AV amps, DVD and BD players.
     
  22. Undercover82

    Undercover82
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    dante01, Denon must have their own iteration of DRC. If you look in the owners manual for the 2312 they have a DRC which applies to Dolby HD only, and another iteration of DRC which they don't make very clear. However if you cross-check this with the table in the last few pages in the manual they state this DRC applies to Dolby Digital and DTS. This is aside from Audyssey.
     
  23. dante01

    dante01
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    All devices capable of decoding Dolby encoded media have Dolby DRC. It is not specific to Dolby TrueHD and is not applicable to non Dolby formats. Even your DVD and Blu-ray players have it. Anything simply labelled DRC or Dynamic Range in the settings is Dolby DRC. Dolby DRC only gives you 3 settings: minimum, standard and maximum.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2012
  24. Undercover82

    Undercover82
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    dante01, sorry I was referring to D.COMP. This can be applied to pretty much everything on the Denon. This is what I was referring to which doesn't appear on the Onkyos. You're probably wondering why I'm making such a fuss over this, it's because 95% of my material consists of DTS mkvs which I sometimes need to watch on the quiet.
     
  25. dante01

    dante01
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    As I said, all amps these days have the facility to modify the dynamic range auxiliary to Dolby's DRC. The amp manufacture's DRC is not specific to any particular format. Audessey also produce their own third party variant and this can be found on some amps where the manufacturer has paid the licensing.
     
  26. hp1980

    hp1980
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    WHile you guys are here - What is "direct mode" when it comes to subs. The speakers i'm going to get are the kef 3005 5.1 ones. Is direct mode better than non direct ???

    I have a lot to learn
     
  27. dante01

    dante01
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    Which "Direct Mode" are you refering to and on what device?
     
  28. hp1980

    hp1980
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    Basically I'm just looking at the denon user manual and during the speaker setup and it says this

    If using a subwoofer capable of the following
    adjustments, set up the subwoofer as shown below.

    When using a subwoofer with a direct mode
    Set the direct mode to “On” and disable the volume adjustment
    and crossover frequency setting.


    When using a subwoofer without a direct mode
    Make the following settings:
    • Volume : “12 o'clock position”
    • Crossover frequency : “Maximum/Highest Frequency”
    • Low pass filter : “Off”
    • Standby mode : “Off”
     
  29. dante01

    dante01
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    You're more likely to come across the latter than an active sub with Direct Mode. If you do come across one then follow the instructions DEnon give and/or the instructions that were supplied with the sub. It just bypasses the subs own gain control and crossover.
     
  30. hp1980

    hp1980
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    So chances are with the kef set up i'd choose the WITHOUT direct mode?

    PS: The kef sub is active
     

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