Onkyo TX-NR609 16:9 / 4:3 switching with upscaling

marcelmmx

Standard Member
Hi everyone.
I connected my sat receiver to the Onkyo AV receiver using component video and have it upscale video to 1080p. All works great until I switch between 2 channels where one broadcasts in 4:3 format and the other in 16:9 format. Then the screen goes blank for about 5 seconds, till finally the picture appears in the correct format. This also occurs when watching a 4:3 program, that has adverts broadcast in 16:9 in between. This is very annoying, so if anyone has a solution, please let me know.
One more question - why does it sometimes take up to 20 seconds for the receiver to switch between hdmi inputs, when at other times it manages to switch in just 4 seconds? "no signal" is usually showing on the display while the receiver tries to figure out the video and audio format.
 

anorax25

Active Member
I think this is an HDCP issue. It's basically a 'handshaking' protocol between the devices. Each device sends a signal saying "TV - Are you happy to display this resolution/format?". The older the TV ( in my experience ) the more HDCP issues occur. Used to happen on my Sharp TV quite often.

The 'no signal' is the equipment doing the HDCP.

Don't really understand why you are using component, is it an old Thompson Box? Does your Onkyo have HDMI in/out, maybe not? Maybe that's the issue.
 

anorax25

Active Member
I think this is an HDCP issue. It's basically a 'handshaking' protocol between the devices. Each device sends a signal saying "TV - Are you happy to display this resolution/format?". The older the TV ( in my experience ) the more HDCP issues occur. Used to happen on my Sharp TV quite often.

The 'no signal' is the equipment doing the HDCP. Does it on my NR 808.

Don't really understand why you are using component, is it an old Thompson Box? Does your Onkyo have HDMI in/out, maybe not? Maybe that's the issue.
 

marcelmmx

Standard Member
Anorax, thanx for your reply.
Yes, I did figure out that the communication between the components-receiver-TV is the cause, but that presents a problem when switching between individual HDMI inputs - if the source sends a signal in a different resolution than the previously selected one, the TV needs to adjust. I switch between a cable box, that outputs 1080p and a sat receiver, which can output 1080i max. but even that is upscaled - (it is not a HD receiver, but it does have a HDMI output).
There are three reasons why I chose to use component video input:
1) the upscaling by my AV receiver produces much better picture quality than upscaling directly by the Sat receiver
2) you cannot upscale signals coming through HDMI (only composite and component video can be upscaled).
3) when I connected my Sat receiver via HDMI the communication between the components got screwed up completely and the switching took forever - no idea why - it still takes about 6 seconds though (before it was up to 20)

So now I have the receiver to constantly output [email protected] - native from the cable box and upscaled from the Sat receiver - so the TV does not have to switch between different formats. Still it seems the TV and the AV receiver don't communicate well, because when I connect the AV receiver to my PC monitor via HDMI, the switching is much faster - about 3 seconds.

Then there is another problem - when the Sat receiver switches from a program broadcast in 4:3 to another broadcast in 16:9 or vice versa, the screen goes black for about 6-7 seconds. It seems the AV receiver's upscaling system cannot deal with this properly and I don't see a workaround. Do you?

These are two different issues - one - communication between receiver and TV (gets fixed when a PC monitor is used) and two upscaler cannot handle the switch between 4:3 and 16:9 formats.

One more note - when the Sat receiver outputs signal to the AV receiver via HDMI the 4:3 to 16:9 switch poses no problem - but in this case there is no upscaling (i.e. picture quality is not as good) and as I said, the switching between different HDMI inputs takes up to 20 seconds.

I am seriously considering returning the receiver.

Marcel
 

anorax25

Active Member
Hi Marcel,

You clearly know more than I do about this so, my apologies!

I have never tried using the Onkyo to upscale ( something to mess with this afternoon I think ) so, I'll see what happens but, as I don't have component out anymore ( new Sky HD ) it's all HDMI so, I'm guessing from what you have said, it won't do it anyway.

I'll have a fiddle and see if I get the same 'symptoms'.

I would have thought that it was your TV having the issue if the switching was quicker to your PC Monitor via HDMI.

Perhaps it takes longer when it's a component signal?

I'll report back.

best wishes,

Col.
 

anorax25

Active Member
Hi Marcel,

You clearly know more than I do about this so, my apologies!

I have never tried using the Onkyo to upscale ( something to mess with this afternoon I think ) so, I'll see what happens but, as I don't have component out anymore ( new Sky HD ) it's all HDMI so, I'm guessing from what you have said, it won't do it anyway.

I'll have a fiddle and see if I get the same 'symptoms'.

I would have thought that it was your TV having the issue if the switching was quicker to your PC Monitor via HDMI.

Perhaps it takes longer when it's a component signal?

I'll report back.

best wishes,

Col.
 

marcelmmx

Standard Member
Hi anorax,
I am afraid, I will have to take back part of what I said :)

Namely the bit about the impossibility to upscale HDMI signal.
After playing with the settings a bit, I found out the right options and now I am upscaling via HDMI. And the 4:3 / 16:9 switching problem is gone too :clap:
However - care must be taken with this - if you input anything less than 1080i via HDMI and attempt to upscale that to 1080p, the 4:3 / 16:9 switching problem will manifest - only when the input signal is 1080i it disappears. So now I have double upscaling - my Sat receiver upscales the normal SD signal to 1080i and the AV receiver converts that to 1080p, and it works without a hitch :thumbsup: Originally I did not try this thinking double upscaling will produce an inferior result to only single SD-1080p upscaling. Still the picture quality is very good.

There still is, howerer, the problem of the very slow switching between individual HDMI inputs. I did some measurements - the fastest switch was 6 seconds, however, only one time. When switching to the sat receiver it normally takes 20 seconds and when switching to the cable receiver, it normally takes 27 seconds !!! The HDMI indicator flashes for a while, then "no signal" is displayed and this repeats 2-4 times until finally there is sound and picture. If I could resolve this somehow, it would be great. After all if I connect the AV receiver to my PC monitor, it switches in about 4 seconds both ways.
My TV is a 3 years old Samsung model, so that is the culprit I fear.
Marcel
 

anorax25

Active Member
Hi Marcel,

Well, that IS good news! I will certainly have a tinker, using the Onkyo to upscale. I seldom watch an SD broadcast as it's so inferior.

Yes, I think the TV IS the culprit! My old Sharp 46 inch 1080p used to drop out all the time. I have a Samsung 46C7000 now and I would say switching between HDMI inputs are nominally around 5 seconds. Definitely not a problem.

best wishes,

Colin.
 

marcelmmx

Standard Member
Hi Colin,
Well I seem to be getting there slowly. Now I am at a stage where the switch usually takes about 6 seconds and only sometimes longer. The trouble is, each of my components uses a different communication system - Onkyo RIHD, Panasonic Viera Link and Samsung Anynet+. I seem to be getting the best results when Anynet is off and the other 2 on. Don't ask me why :)
Marcel

P.s. hope this helps to other poor souls suffering from similar issues.
 

anorax25

Active Member
Hi Marcel,

Yeah, I have found that Anynet+ screwed things up, particularly when using HDMI passthru on the Onkyo, supplying my TV upstairs.

Haven't had the chance to try the upscale function just yet but, I'm going to give it a try.

Glad to hear you are making progress!

best wishes,

Col.
 

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