Onkyo support for Apple Lossless

[banjoman]

Do any of the Onkyo AV receivers support Apple Lossless - looked at the detailed specs on the website - most models support AAC and all sorts of lossless formats but does not specify Apple lossless explicitly.

Anyone tried streaming Apple Lossless on an Onkyo?

Also, for anyone who might have the Onkyo TX-NR808, does the latest firmware allow Spotify streaming and Air Play?

Thanks!

 

[dante01]

I don't think any AV receiver provides support for Apple Lossless? I'm not even sure that there's a non Apple branded product that supports ALAC (Apple Lossless Audio Codec)?

 

[banjoman]

Most of the latest Pioneer AV receivers - VSX2021, LX55, etc.. - do support Apple Lossless.
The Onkyos support AAC and all sorts of lossless formates including OGG Vorbis - so surprised it does not mention Apple lossless unless they imply that within AAC support

 

[dante01]

Most of the latest Pioneer AV receivers - VSX2021, LX55, etc.. - do support Apple Lossless.
The Onkyos support AAC and all sorts of lossless formates including OGG Vorbis - so surprised it does not mention Apple lossless unless they imply that within AAC support

AAC doesn't mean ALAC support. I own several amps and devices that support FLAC, OGG Vorbis and FLAC, but none of them support ALAC Apple Lossless Audio.

I believe the Logitech Squeezebox offers support, but the Pioneer support is news to me.

Apple Lossless data is stored within an MP4 container with the filename extension .m4a – this extension is also used by Apple for AAC audio data in an MP4 container (same container, different audio encoding). However, Apple Lossless is not a variant of AAC (which is a lossy format), but rather a distinct lossless format that uses linear prediction similar to other lossless codecs such as FLAC and Shorten.

The same lack of support was once apparent for Apple AAC audio files. I think it simply a matter of FLAC and OGG having a head start over Apple's format, but then again, Apple's iTunes and its devices lack support for FLAC and OGG Vorbis.

 

[fyonn]

Any amp that supports apple AirPlay must support ALAC somehow as I think ALAC is the codec used to transport audio in AirPlay. Whether or not they expose this support via other interfaces or not I don't know but it would seem churlish not to as you've already done the work...

David

 

[dante01]

Any amp that supports apple AirPlay must support ALAC somehow as I think ALAC is the codec used to transport audio in AirPlay. Whether or not they expose this support via other interfaces or not I don't know but it would seem churlish not to as you've already done the work...

David

You are right, but I think it has to do with iTunes integration as opposed to it being based on one codec? AirPlay requires a device be compatible with iTunes which in turn would require support for Apple Lossless. AirPlay is more akin to Apple's version of DLNA than it is a codec. The AirTunes part of the AirPlay protocol stack uses UDP for streaming audio and is based on the RTSP network control protocol. I'm not sure that AirPlay support would guarantee Apple Lossless support if not utilising AirPlay?

 

[fyonn]

Afaik, AirTunes, the audio only protocol which preceded AirPlay used ALAC to stream the audio, even if the music you were streaming was an mp3. I assume AirPlay does the same but I don't know for a fact.

Anyway, any receiver that supports AirPlay must therefore support ALAC somehow. You're right that it doesn't mean they've exposed the codec via any other streaming interface but it would seem a waste not to...

David

 

[dante01]

Afaik, AirTunes, the audio only protocol which preceded AirPlay used ALAC to stream the audio, even if the music you were streaming was an mp3. I assume AirPlay does the same but I don't know for a fact.

Anyway, any receiver that supports AirPlay must therefore support ALAC somehow. You're right that it doesn't mean they've exposed the codec via any other streaming interface but it would seem a waste not to...

David

You can't use a codec to stream audio. ALAC is the file format which requires a codec to decode it. AirTunes and AirPLay are means by which to stream audio and other types of media. A codec would still be required to decode the Apple Lossless audio format. MP3 requires an entirely different codec as does AAC. Neither AirTunes nor AirPlay are codecs, they are protocols used for the streaming of audio and other file formats, principally from Apple devices or devices implementing those UDP protocols. The User Datagram Protocol (UDP) is one of the core members of the Internet Protocol Suite, the set of network protocols used for the Internet. With UDP, computer applications can send messages to other hosts on an Internet Protocol (IP) network without requiring prior communications to set up special transmission channels or data paths. AirPlay is Apple's proprietary front end take on UDP.

The principal reason for AirPlay is basically to give streaming support for iTunes, something not covered by protocols such as DLNA and UPnP. This gives AirPLay equipped devices easy access to iTunes or an easy way to stream iTunes audio to AirPlay equipped wireless speakers.

I don't think the implementation of AirPlay requires any form of mandatory support for Apple Lossless or the codec associated with it?

 

[fyonn]

You can't use a codec to stream audio. ALAC is the file format which requires a codec to decode it. AirTunes and AirPLay are means by which to stream audio and other types of media. A codec would still be required to decode the Apple Lossless audio format. MP3 requires an entirely different codec as does AAC. Neither AirTunes nor AirTunes are codecs, they are protocols used for the streaming of audio and other file formats, principally from Apple devices or devices implementing those UDP protocols. The User Datagram Protocol (UDP) is one of the core members of the Internet Protocol Suite, the set of network protocols used for the Internet. With UDP, computer applications can send messages to other hosts on an Internet Protocol (IP) network without requiring prior communications to set up special transmission channels or data paths. AirPlay is Apple's proprietary take on UDP.

The principal reason for AirTunes is basically to give streaming support for iTunes, something not covered by protocols such as DLNA and UPnP.

well, ALAC does stand for "Apple Lossless Audio Codec" so it's both a file format and the associated codec required to deal with it. afaik, iTunes would decode an mp3 and then re-encode it into ALAC or "Apple’s lossless compression technology" to use their terminology to send it to an airplay receiver. They'll then send that using UDP.

however we're wandering off the topic here and I don't know the answer to the OP's question

David

 

[dante01]

afaik, iTunes would decode an mp3 and then re-encode it into ALAC or "Apple's lossless compression technology" to use their terminology to send it to an airplay receiver. They'll then send that using UDP.

however we're wandering off the topic here and I don't know the answer to the OP's question

David

iTunes plays MP3s as MP3 and does not transcode file formats it supports. The same is true of WMA files which iTunes also supports. I know this as fact.

I think you mean AirTunes/AirPlay transcodes the audio and not iTunes?


Onkyo do not currently provide support for Apple Lossless. They also do not implement AirPlay and Apple do not list Onkyo as a manufacturer adopting AirPlay.