Onkyo SKH410 upfiring Atmos speakers - how good?

Dr.Rock

Active Member
Hi,

I'm looking into getting a Denon X2200W AV receiver to replace my 10+ years old receiver that's stopped working, and also so I can make use of the new Atmos & DTS-X features. I'll be keeping my existing Mission M72 speaker package (but center MC1 replaced with superior MC2) with Rel subwoofer which still work and I think are still good, so no need to upgrade the speakers. For Atmos speakers, I'm considering the Onkyo SKH410 upfiring rather than any in-ceiling speaker due to ease and freedom of room layout change. Has anyone tried these Onkyos and how good are they at creating the "from above" effect, as I haven't seen them reviewed on here? I wouldn't mind spending a little extra on a better upfiring speaker but the next one up are the Kefs with a £500 price difference -- totally out of my budget! I don't know if there are or will be any better Atmos enabled speakers worth waiting for which are in similar price range as the Onkyos. Also, is there anything else different about Atmos enabled speakers other than the driver firing upwards or is there anything else in those speakers giving the Atmos functionality? Can I just use another pair of front-firing speakers and angle them upwards, or will I still be missing something?

Thanks.
 
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mtenga

Distinguished Member
To be honest I've not had much value out of the modules over what I previously had with a traditional 7.1 setup. I had four of the onkyos and now have four of the kefs. Don't get me wrong the Atmos tracks I've listened to are all thrilling but the modules don't add much. I've experimented with placement and levels.
 

Dr.Rock

Active Member
Thanks Mtenga. Which Kefs did you use to replace the Onkyos? Are the replacements still upfiring, or ceiling speakers? How much are they an improvement over the Onkyos?

Thanks.
 

mtenga

Distinguished Member
Thanks Mtenga. Which Kefs did you use to replace the Onkyos? Are the replacements still upfiring, or ceiling speakers? How much are they an improvement over the Onkyos?

Thanks.
I got the Kef R50 upfiring modules. To be honest audio wise there is little improvement because the "bounce" does not work well in my room or the technology itself is not up to much. I suspect the latter. They are far better built that the Onkyos and can go lower bass wise but at nearly ten times the price they should be all that.
 

Nodular

Well-known Member
The KEF R50's are fantastic for atmos and reveal much more detail than the Onks which I had before.

They do work when set up correctly.
Yes they are expensive but you do get what you pay for.
 

mtenga

Distinguished Member
They do work when set up correctly..

Well, consider the technology itself. What does it actually consist of? Basically just bouncing sound off a wall. Anybody must know that it can only have a limited impact in comparison to a sound fired directly at you. That is obvious and undeniable is it not?

I've experimented with crossovers, levels and placement and the impact is minimal. Following various threads on the internet my experience seems fairly typical. Doesn't matter how much you spend on the speakers.
 

Nodular

Well-known Member
Well, consider the technology itself. What does it actually consist of? Basically just bouncing sound off a wall. Anybody must know that it can only have a limited impact in comparison to a sound fired directly at you. That is obvious and undeniable is it not?

I've experimented with crossovers, levels and placement and the impact is minimal. Following various threads on the internet my experience seems fairly typical. Doesn't matter how much you spend on the speakers.

I'm happy with mine and the effect they give with atmos and up mixed material.
There is an extra sense of height for sure in my cinema room.

Sorry to hear you are not experiencing the same.
 

kbfern

Distinguished Member
You could try the the XTZ S2 which are not too expensive at £280 a pair and deffo better than teh Onkyo. They can be up or down firers either placed on top of L&R speakers or on wall or ceiling.

Epic Home Cinema Projectors
 

Dave M

Distinguished Member
Those with the Onkyo's; How did you set up the levels for them?
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Those with the Onkyo's; How did you set up the levels for them?
Not an Onkyo owner but generally set crossover to 150hz or higher. You will need to raise the levels by at least 3dB. They can struggle to be honest.
 

mjbtin

Well-known Member
If on a budget these look like a decent buy,should be a step up from the onkyos.

Eltax MONITOR ATM

Martin
 

Dave M

Distinguished Member

mjbtin

Well-known Member
Why’d they be a step up?
Two way speaker with 5"woofer and soft dome tweeter,better build quality,removeable grill,binding posts and weigh more than twice the onkyos for an extra £30?
Looks to get good reviews,one purchaser went from the onkyos to the eltax and said they were in a different league.

Martin
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Why’d they be a step up?
Yes. Any speaker really depends on the size of the drivers and cabinet and they will perform better than the Onkyos. They really are the entry point for Atmos modules. The king of the hill use to be the KEF R50s, now replaced by the KEF R8a, however you have to pay a price.
 

Dave M

Distinguished Member
Thanks guys. I've never really appreciated Atmos. Think I have my Onkyo's set up wrong. I did have the crossover at 80 but have now changed to 150. Not tested yet though.
 

anlygi

Well-known Member
Thanks guys. I've never really appreciated Atmos. Think I have my Onkyo's set up wrong. I did have the crossover at 80 but have now changed to 150. Not tested yet though.

I was a little underwhelmed with Atmos using front heights. Audible difference over 5.1 sure, but not really getting that true overhead feeling.

When I moved to on-ceiling this week after redecorating and set as top middle on my AVR, what a difference! Going through my UHD collection again hearing what I have missed. Anything but on or in ceiling is clearly a compromise. When we buy a place next year I will go in-ceiling and likely upgrade to a 5.2.4 setup, only 5.1.2 at the moment.
 

StefanBFC

Well-known Member
The Onkyo's are OK for a budget entry level to Atmos. They do give a sense of height, but don't expect a lot. It makes you wanting more.

I replaced them with ceiling speakers and it made a huge difference, and I mean huge!!
 

Dave M

Distinguished Member
I've always been put off with ceiling speakers as hiding the wires looks like a nightmare!
 

gibbsy

Moderator
I'm more than happy with my upfirers, with DTS Neural employed they certainly breath new life into old standard 5.1 discs.
 

brad123

Well-known Member
Confused so if you do DTS you lose the rear speakers as you cant connect extra speakers to the amp to do both extra DTS speakers and the old school rear speakers?
 

Romster1

Active Member
I'm more than happy with my upfirers, with DTS Neural employed they certainly breath new life into old standard 5.1 discs.
Hi Gibbsy my new receiver has DTS neural support so interested in your comment but wanted to know does it only up process DTS content or all multichannel content?
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Hi Gibbsy my new receiver has DTS neural support so interested in your comment but wanted to know does it only up process DTS content or all multichannel content?
Unless the receiver has the ability to cross-match the various formats, ie, Neural:X with Dolby Digital and DTS with Dolby Surround then the receiver will fall back on the default upmixing of Dolby Digital to Dolby Surround and DTS to DTS Neural. Personally I stick with the default settings.

What I have found though is that with DTS discs, especially those with a DTS MA HD soundtrack in 5/7.1 is that the upmixing to, in my case, 5.1.2 is very good indeed and enjoyable. You're receiver may have the cross-match ability. I have a Denon receiver and I just have to scroll through the audio 'movie' button and if it's there it should show on the facia display. It should come up as DolbyD+NeuX.
 

Romster1

Active Member
Unless the receiver has the ability to cross-match the various formats, ie, Neural:X with Dolby Digital and DTS with Dolby Surround then the receiver will fall back on the default upmixing of Dolby Digital to Dolby Surround and DTS to DTS Neural. Personally I stick with the default settings.

What I have found though is that with DTS discs, especially those with a DTS MA HD soundtrack in 5/7.1 is that the upmixing to, in my case, 5.1.2 is very good indeed and enjoyable. You're receiver may have the cross-match ability. I have a Denon receiver and I just have to scroll through the audio 'movie' button and if it's there it should show on the facia display. It should come up as DolbyD+NeuX.
Ive got the pioneer VSX 934 and a firmware update has added both dts virtual and neural x support I have a lot of DTS movies on my NAS and was interested in testing those. I put Avitar on last night and pressing the surround button scrolls through the sound options I saw dts neural x and virtual x and one displayed both of those together. I havent got ceiling speakers but having read this thread I am interested in getting and hooking up some up firing speakers. I will add that even without them the sound stage using the virtual and neural x settings did seem more special
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Ive got the pioneer VSX 934 and a firmware update has added both dts virtual and neural x support I have a lot of DTS movies on my NAS and was interested in testing those. I put Avitar on last night and pressing the surround button scrolls through the sound options I saw dts neural x and virtual x and one displayed both of those together. I havent got ceiling speakers but having read this thread I am interested in getting and hooking up some up firing speakers. I will add that even without them the sound stage using the virtual and neural x settings did seem more special
Virtual is what you should be using without actual Atmos speakers. With the speakers it's Neural that comes into it's own and it does make great use of those speakers. I really do rate it, I have some DTS HD titles that really do take on a new dimension.
 

Romster1

Active Member
Virtual is what you should be using without actual Atmos speakers. With the speakers it's Neural that comes into it's own and it does make great use of those speakers. I really do rate it, I have some DTS HD titles that really do take on a new dimension.
thanks for the advice I'll definitely haveto look at getting some up firing ones as ceiling ones are not an option for me.
 

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