IRobot
Prominent Member
Hi Dudes,
I recently purchased the PR-SC5507 and thought I'd post a mini-review of it. It's my first Onkyo amp, previously owned Denon and Marantz amps.
First impression, it's a big ugly black box and even though it doesn't have any power amps, it's still larger than my previous Marantz avr and almost weighs as much. Yep, this one's best kept hidden away in a cupboard. I've put it next to my Arcam P7 and it makes the P7 look small and stylish . Speaking of Arcam, my original intent was to get the AV888 but that unit has issues and lacks some useful features (Audyssey, DSD) and some features that might be worth playing around with in the future (DSX,PLIIz etc.). However, if the Onkyo didn't satisfy on the sound quality front, I would still consider changing to the Arcam (if they fix the issues). But that won't be necessary as having spent some time with the Onkyo, I'm very happy with its sound quality for music and movies. Also it's worked flawlessly with everything I've thrown at it so far, multiple sources (PS3, Sky HD, Oppo BDP-83, Sonos, PC), simultaneous HDMI outputs to TV and PJ and being able to play an audio source (CD) while having a muted video source on the TV (football). You can tell it's a mature product as it should be being the 3rd or 4th gen pre/pro from Onkyo. One thing I didn't like is that there seems to be a relay inside the amp that clicks when you change sound formats. It also clicks when changing channels on Sky HD if you're using the optical connection. You get used to it though.
Setup:-
Plenty of HDMI inputs, seven at the back, one in front. I took the easy option and plugged my Sky, Oppo and PS3 into the ones labelled cab/sat, DVD/BD and game respectively. It saved time having to mess around assigning inputs. Sky only outputs DD5.1 through the optical so you have to assign the cab/sat audio input to one of the optical inputs i.e. OPT1 making sure to press ENTER so that an asterisk appears next to it i.e. OPT1*. I expect this will catch a few people out.
There are three source configurable trigger sockets, I use one to turn on the power amp and another to turn on the sub. You can set a delay between them to avoid power surges.
Firmware updates can be done over the web like the PS3 and Oppo. The first update is already available, something to do with the iPod dock and internet radio, neither of much interest to me but I tried it anyway and the update worked fine, took about 15 minutes.
Auto setup starts as soon as you plug the Audyssey mic in. The mic is the usual Audyssey tower mic with a threaded insert for tripod mounting. You have to do a minimum of three positions and up to eight max. You can choose between wide and height channels but not both together. There's two subwoofer pre outs which are treated separately. Auto setup will determine level and distance individually for each sub. I like this line from the manual:-
"No matter how many speakers you use, two powered subwoofers are recommended for a really powerful and solid base".
Looks like Onkyo are base junkies .
Audyssey is engaged by default when auto setup completes and so is Dynamic EQ. Dynamic Volume is off by default and I'm inclined to leave it turned off as I don't like the idea of any compression to the sound. Auto setup did a good job on my system.
Sound Quality:-
The Onkyo sounds great with stereo music. There's a sense of greater space and clarity to the sound compared to what I've heard with previous amps. If you switch to a matrix mode, "Dolby PLIIx Music" in particular, there's some real magic going on with the sound. Take for example tracks from Fleetwood Macs Mirage album, the main vocals are clear and precise and come from the front soundstage while the background vocals appear to come from around you and particular instruments from different parts of the surround soundstage. It sounds fantastic even though it's just a stereo CD but sounds every bit as good as some of my multi-channel SACD discs. Matrixing has never worked this well before with other amps and I've often just gone back to listening in straight stereo. The surround processing of the Onkyo is top class.
Movies sound superb. Watching Sunshine in DTS Master Audio, the Onkyo seems to sound more complete, you get enveloped with the sound/atmosphere of the movie. With previous systems, the surrounds gave me all the effects OK but not so much the atmosphere. At lower volume levels, the surround channels don't fade out like my previous amps. This is probably down to Dynamic EQ.
I put on a concert blu-ray, Iron Maiden - Flight 666 and ramped up the volume to reference level. Holy crap, it was seriously loud but awesome, half the street must have heard what I was listening to. The drum sounds in particular were excellent, a really visceral impact.
Operation:-
The single remote supplied is OK but will no doubt end up in my remote control shoebox once I get the Harmony programmed with the most useful buttons. One problem with the remote is that you've only got one button to cycle through the surround modes and this amp has a huge number of surround modes so trying to get to the one you want can be a hassle. The Onkyo's got plenty of DSP power, you can apply surround sound modes to things like DSD and HD bitstreams which my previous amp couldn't do.
The OSD is really useful, it will show volume changes so no need to squint at the front panel any more. Surround mode changes also come up on screen. Pressing "Display" will show info about the audio input and output, pressing it again will show info about the video input and output. The setup menu isn't overlaid though.
Video processing is pretty well covered with the ability to set resolutions and picture adjustments per source. Or you can just set a global resolution or you can set the global setting to "through" and it will pass the video through untouched.
I don't know why Onkyo are calling these new units "network controllers/receivers" because it won't play videos over your network. It will play music over the network but it puts a short gap between songs which is annoying for live music or classical or lots of other stuff like Pink Floyd. Internet radio is the only thing it does properly over the network. I'll be sticking to the Sonos for music playback.
Here's a naked shot for anyone who's in to that kind of thing .
So, to sum it up, it's the dog's danglies , sounds superb, has a huge amount of flexibility with both audio/video and works flawlessly with every source I tried and nothing much to complain about.
I'll post some feedback when I've had a chance to try out PLIIz or Audyssey DSX.
Thanks
Steve
UPDATE #1 - 7/11/2009
Dynamic EQ:-
I ran some frequency sweeps with REW software to see what effect Dynamic EQ is having on my system. These curves are at different levels but overlayed on each other so you can see the effect.
With the Onkyo running at reference level or with Dynamic EQ switched off, I get a fairly flat frequency response as shown by the black line. The more you reduce the volume, the more Dynamic EQ will compensate by adjusting the base curve and surround levels.
UPDATE #2 - 1/12/2009
Height Channels:-
I've been using surround back channels for the last three months but have found that they don't offer much benefit over 5.1. Probably because my room is fairly small (12ft by 22ft) and they were positioned close to the side surrounds. So I decided to re-position them as front heights instead to see if Dolby PLIIz or Audyssey DSX processing brings any benefits. The pic below shows how I positioned the height speakers. They are "Monitor Audio R225HD" which can be used horizontally as a centre speaker.
I mentioned above, the hassle of having to loop through the huge amount of sound modes with one button on the remote. I got round that problem by controlling the Onkyo via the network port. I was able to switch directly to the sound mode I wanted to try. I'll post more about this in a future update.
Black Snake Moan (DD 5.1):-
I watched the scene where Samuel L. Jackson plays his electric guitar in his shack and it starts raining. In native DD 5.1 mode, so no heights, the effect of the rain hitting the roof of his shack was very realistic. It really sounded as if it was coming from above and sounded just like it does when it rains on the plastic roof of my shed. Activating the heights in PLIIz mode didn't actually improve the sound much at all. The rain and thunder effects didn't change much. There was a slight change to his singing voice, I wouldn't say it was for the better though. Again, I didn't hear any noticable improvement to the sound when using DSX heights instead of PLIIz. The sound was great to start with and DSX heights didn't change much.
Blade Runner - (Dolby True HD):-
I thought this one would be good to test as it has a lot of height stuff in the sound. It practically rains all the way through the film and then you've got all the flying cars and hovering advertising things. In native Dolby True HD 5.1 mode it does sound very good and all the aerial effects come from where they should be in the sound stage. Activating the height channels doesn't really make much difference at all in either PLIIz or DSX mode.
Stereo Music:-
Nothing sounds better in surround than a bit of symphonic prog . So I put on "Collage - Heroes Cry", corny lyrics, but they are a Polish band so I guess you can forgive them that . It sounds fabulous in Stereo with the Audyssey EQ really opening up the front sound stage compared to Direct Stereo. Switching to PLII Music mode is stunning with the symphonic keyboards soaring up all around you. Using the heights in PLIIz didn't make that much difference compared to PLII Music. I noticed that the vocals were very slightly less focused with the heights activated. With Audyssey DSX, you have to matrix the sound up to 5.1 first. You could use DTS Neo:6 Music with DSX Heights but I tried Dolby PLII Music with DSX Heights. DSX didn't sound too good. The soundstage was moved towards the front and it was a bit heavy and leaden compared to the airy hi-fi sound from PLIIz. Out of the two height processing modes, PLIIz was far superior in my room with my speakers but I still preferred the regular 5.1 PLII Music mode.
So, in my room with my fairly decent 5.1 speakers, I didn't experience a greater sense of immersion by using front height speakers so they'll probably be coming back down at some point.
UPDATE #3 - 9/12/2009
Web Control:-
Many of the functions of the Onkyo can be controlled via it's network port. Member FASHICE created some web app code that allowed you to control the Onkyo using a web browser. I adapted that code and added a design that looks good on a small form factor web browser such as an iPod Touch. I use the Sonos app on the iPod anyway to control the music that gets played back on my system. A good thing about the web app is that you can get direct access to functions that require dozens of button presses on the Onkyo remote such as sound modes. As it's a web app, it needs to run on a web server. All my music files for my Sonos are on a NAS (Netgear Readynas). The NAS has a built in web server which I enabled and copied the web app files to. Here's some screenshots of the Onkyo Web Controller running on my iPod Touch:-
UPDATE #4 - 7/3/2010
Using Two Subs:-
I recently acquired a second sub so I thought I'd see how the Onkyo would handle the integration of two subwoofers.
Before running the Onkyo's auto setup, I checked to see if the chosen positions for the subs would give a good respose at the listening position. I put one sub behind the front left speaker and the other behind the front right speaker so they were near the front corners of my rectangular room (12ft by 22ft). A quick check with REW showed that this wasn't going to work. One of the large dips was in the same frequency range for each sub. I moved the front left sub near the rear left corner of the room so the subs were at diagonal corners. Check again with REW and things looked much more promising. Where the frequency response was weak with the front sub, it was strong with the rear sub and vice-versa.
Next I level matched the subs, front was set to 50% gain and the closer rear sub to 40% gain. I ran both subs together and saw a cancellation at about 25Hz. Adjusting the phase of the rear sub fixed that problem but since I still had to run the Audyssey auto setup which would take care of any phase issues, I set the phase back to 0 and started the Audyssey setup.
Auto setup came up with the following distance/level settings:-
sub 1 (front) 5.1m -8dB
sub 2 (rear) 2.55m -8dB
One thing I wanted to check was that the two subs would get EQ'd seperatly. This chart shows the seperate EQ curves applied to each sub.
So after the auto setup completed and with the Audyssey EQ turned on, I got this response for each sub.
Running both subs together, gave this response.
Here's the combined response with 1/3 smoothing.
I recently purchased the PR-SC5507 and thought I'd post a mini-review of it. It's my first Onkyo amp, previously owned Denon and Marantz amps.
First impression, it's a big ugly black box and even though it doesn't have any power amps, it's still larger than my previous Marantz avr and almost weighs as much. Yep, this one's best kept hidden away in a cupboard. I've put it next to my Arcam P7 and it makes the P7 look small and stylish . Speaking of Arcam, my original intent was to get the AV888 but that unit has issues and lacks some useful features (Audyssey, DSD) and some features that might be worth playing around with in the future (DSX,PLIIz etc.). However, if the Onkyo didn't satisfy on the sound quality front, I would still consider changing to the Arcam (if they fix the issues). But that won't be necessary as having spent some time with the Onkyo, I'm very happy with its sound quality for music and movies. Also it's worked flawlessly with everything I've thrown at it so far, multiple sources (PS3, Sky HD, Oppo BDP-83, Sonos, PC), simultaneous HDMI outputs to TV and PJ and being able to play an audio source (CD) while having a muted video source on the TV (football). You can tell it's a mature product as it should be being the 3rd or 4th gen pre/pro from Onkyo. One thing I didn't like is that there seems to be a relay inside the amp that clicks when you change sound formats. It also clicks when changing channels on Sky HD if you're using the optical connection. You get used to it though.
Setup:-
Plenty of HDMI inputs, seven at the back, one in front. I took the easy option and plugged my Sky, Oppo and PS3 into the ones labelled cab/sat, DVD/BD and game respectively. It saved time having to mess around assigning inputs. Sky only outputs DD5.1 through the optical so you have to assign the cab/sat audio input to one of the optical inputs i.e. OPT1 making sure to press ENTER so that an asterisk appears next to it i.e. OPT1*. I expect this will catch a few people out.
There are three source configurable trigger sockets, I use one to turn on the power amp and another to turn on the sub. You can set a delay between them to avoid power surges.
Firmware updates can be done over the web like the PS3 and Oppo. The first update is already available, something to do with the iPod dock and internet radio, neither of much interest to me but I tried it anyway and the update worked fine, took about 15 minutes.
Auto setup starts as soon as you plug the Audyssey mic in. The mic is the usual Audyssey tower mic with a threaded insert for tripod mounting. You have to do a minimum of three positions and up to eight max. You can choose between wide and height channels but not both together. There's two subwoofer pre outs which are treated separately. Auto setup will determine level and distance individually for each sub. I like this line from the manual:-
"No matter how many speakers you use, two powered subwoofers are recommended for a really powerful and solid base".
Looks like Onkyo are base junkies .
Audyssey is engaged by default when auto setup completes and so is Dynamic EQ. Dynamic Volume is off by default and I'm inclined to leave it turned off as I don't like the idea of any compression to the sound. Auto setup did a good job on my system.
Sound Quality:-
The Onkyo sounds great with stereo music. There's a sense of greater space and clarity to the sound compared to what I've heard with previous amps. If you switch to a matrix mode, "Dolby PLIIx Music" in particular, there's some real magic going on with the sound. Take for example tracks from Fleetwood Macs Mirage album, the main vocals are clear and precise and come from the front soundstage while the background vocals appear to come from around you and particular instruments from different parts of the surround soundstage. It sounds fantastic even though it's just a stereo CD but sounds every bit as good as some of my multi-channel SACD discs. Matrixing has never worked this well before with other amps and I've often just gone back to listening in straight stereo. The surround processing of the Onkyo is top class.
Movies sound superb. Watching Sunshine in DTS Master Audio, the Onkyo seems to sound more complete, you get enveloped with the sound/atmosphere of the movie. With previous systems, the surrounds gave me all the effects OK but not so much the atmosphere. At lower volume levels, the surround channels don't fade out like my previous amps. This is probably down to Dynamic EQ.
I put on a concert blu-ray, Iron Maiden - Flight 666 and ramped up the volume to reference level. Holy crap, it was seriously loud but awesome, half the street must have heard what I was listening to. The drum sounds in particular were excellent, a really visceral impact.
Operation:-
The single remote supplied is OK but will no doubt end up in my remote control shoebox once I get the Harmony programmed with the most useful buttons. One problem with the remote is that you've only got one button to cycle through the surround modes and this amp has a huge number of surround modes so trying to get to the one you want can be a hassle. The Onkyo's got plenty of DSP power, you can apply surround sound modes to things like DSD and HD bitstreams which my previous amp couldn't do.
The OSD is really useful, it will show volume changes so no need to squint at the front panel any more. Surround mode changes also come up on screen. Pressing "Display" will show info about the audio input and output, pressing it again will show info about the video input and output. The setup menu isn't overlaid though.
Video processing is pretty well covered with the ability to set resolutions and picture adjustments per source. Or you can just set a global resolution or you can set the global setting to "through" and it will pass the video through untouched.
I don't know why Onkyo are calling these new units "network controllers/receivers" because it won't play videos over your network. It will play music over the network but it puts a short gap between songs which is annoying for live music or classical or lots of other stuff like Pink Floyd. Internet radio is the only thing it does properly over the network. I'll be sticking to the Sonos for music playback.
Here's a naked shot for anyone who's in to that kind of thing .
So, to sum it up, it's the dog's danglies , sounds superb, has a huge amount of flexibility with both audio/video and works flawlessly with every source I tried and nothing much to complain about.
I'll post some feedback when I've had a chance to try out PLIIz or Audyssey DSX.
Thanks
Steve
UPDATE #1 - 7/11/2009
Dynamic EQ:-
I ran some frequency sweeps with REW software to see what effect Dynamic EQ is having on my system. These curves are at different levels but overlayed on each other so you can see the effect.
With the Onkyo running at reference level or with Dynamic EQ switched off, I get a fairly flat frequency response as shown by the black line. The more you reduce the volume, the more Dynamic EQ will compensate by adjusting the base curve and surround levels.
UPDATE #2 - 1/12/2009
Height Channels:-
I've been using surround back channels for the last three months but have found that they don't offer much benefit over 5.1. Probably because my room is fairly small (12ft by 22ft) and they were positioned close to the side surrounds. So I decided to re-position them as front heights instead to see if Dolby PLIIz or Audyssey DSX processing brings any benefits. The pic below shows how I positioned the height speakers. They are "Monitor Audio R225HD" which can be used horizontally as a centre speaker.
I mentioned above, the hassle of having to loop through the huge amount of sound modes with one button on the remote. I got round that problem by controlling the Onkyo via the network port. I was able to switch directly to the sound mode I wanted to try. I'll post more about this in a future update.
Black Snake Moan (DD 5.1):-
I watched the scene where Samuel L. Jackson plays his electric guitar in his shack and it starts raining. In native DD 5.1 mode, so no heights, the effect of the rain hitting the roof of his shack was very realistic. It really sounded as if it was coming from above and sounded just like it does when it rains on the plastic roof of my shed. Activating the heights in PLIIz mode didn't actually improve the sound much at all. The rain and thunder effects didn't change much. There was a slight change to his singing voice, I wouldn't say it was for the better though. Again, I didn't hear any noticable improvement to the sound when using DSX heights instead of PLIIz. The sound was great to start with and DSX heights didn't change much.
Blade Runner - (Dolby True HD):-
I thought this one would be good to test as it has a lot of height stuff in the sound. It practically rains all the way through the film and then you've got all the flying cars and hovering advertising things. In native Dolby True HD 5.1 mode it does sound very good and all the aerial effects come from where they should be in the sound stage. Activating the height channels doesn't really make much difference at all in either PLIIz or DSX mode.
Stereo Music:-
Nothing sounds better in surround than a bit of symphonic prog . So I put on "Collage - Heroes Cry", corny lyrics, but they are a Polish band so I guess you can forgive them that . It sounds fabulous in Stereo with the Audyssey EQ really opening up the front sound stage compared to Direct Stereo. Switching to PLII Music mode is stunning with the symphonic keyboards soaring up all around you. Using the heights in PLIIz didn't make that much difference compared to PLII Music. I noticed that the vocals were very slightly less focused with the heights activated. With Audyssey DSX, you have to matrix the sound up to 5.1 first. You could use DTS Neo:6 Music with DSX Heights but I tried Dolby PLII Music with DSX Heights. DSX didn't sound too good. The soundstage was moved towards the front and it was a bit heavy and leaden compared to the airy hi-fi sound from PLIIz. Out of the two height processing modes, PLIIz was far superior in my room with my speakers but I still preferred the regular 5.1 PLII Music mode.
So, in my room with my fairly decent 5.1 speakers, I didn't experience a greater sense of immersion by using front height speakers so they'll probably be coming back down at some point.
UPDATE #3 - 9/12/2009
Web Control:-
Many of the functions of the Onkyo can be controlled via it's network port. Member FASHICE created some web app code that allowed you to control the Onkyo using a web browser. I adapted that code and added a design that looks good on a small form factor web browser such as an iPod Touch. I use the Sonos app on the iPod anyway to control the music that gets played back on my system. A good thing about the web app is that you can get direct access to functions that require dozens of button presses on the Onkyo remote such as sound modes. As it's a web app, it needs to run on a web server. All my music files for my Sonos are on a NAS (Netgear Readynas). The NAS has a built in web server which I enabled and copied the web app files to. Here's some screenshots of the Onkyo Web Controller running on my iPod Touch:-
UPDATE #4 - 7/3/2010
Using Two Subs:-
I recently acquired a second sub so I thought I'd see how the Onkyo would handle the integration of two subwoofers.
Before running the Onkyo's auto setup, I checked to see if the chosen positions for the subs would give a good respose at the listening position. I put one sub behind the front left speaker and the other behind the front right speaker so they were near the front corners of my rectangular room (12ft by 22ft). A quick check with REW showed that this wasn't going to work. One of the large dips was in the same frequency range for each sub. I moved the front left sub near the rear left corner of the room so the subs were at diagonal corners. Check again with REW and things looked much more promising. Where the frequency response was weak with the front sub, it was strong with the rear sub and vice-versa.
Next I level matched the subs, front was set to 50% gain and the closer rear sub to 40% gain. I ran both subs together and saw a cancellation at about 25Hz. Adjusting the phase of the rear sub fixed that problem but since I still had to run the Audyssey auto setup which would take care of any phase issues, I set the phase back to 0 and started the Audyssey setup.
Auto setup came up with the following distance/level settings:-
sub 1 (front) 5.1m -8dB
sub 2 (rear) 2.55m -8dB
One thing I wanted to check was that the two subs would get EQ'd seperatly. This chart shows the seperate EQ curves applied to each sub.
So after the auto setup completed and with the Audyssey EQ turned on, I got this response for each sub.
Running both subs together, gave this response.
Here's the combined response with 1/3 smoothing.
Last edited: