Onkyo 606 legal rights

Skyman1

Standard Member
Hi to everyone, i'm new to these forums however I need some advice.
My Onkyo 606 has developed a HDMI problem. Sadly i am out of the 2 year warranty, and having spoken to both Richer sounds and Onkyo's service dept, they still want to charge me £117 for the privilege of a repair.
Looking around on Google and forums, it appears to be a known issue.
My question is: Has anyone taken Onkyo on and won? I believe a known issue should be carried out free of charge.
Thanks for reading
 

Crustyloafer

Distinguished Member
Given that the standard warranty on the Onkyo's is 2 years (3 Years on the bigger models) which is pretty generous compared to other similarly low priced consumer electronics I think it could be argued that it has lasted a reasonably sufficient length of time without requiring a repair.

In order to take on Onkyo in this matter I think you would have to get proof that it is a known and inherent fault in the design of that product. Evidence that numerous people have encountered similar issues is not hard evidence that it is a design flaw. You would need get independent inspection of the unit by a qualified electrical and electronic engineer with knowledge of the design and then get them to provide a report stating that issue you have encountered is extremely likely to occur on most products based on that design.

I deal with all the repairs at my place of work and I can't say, given the very high numbers of that particular model that we have actually sold and no doubt many other retailers have, that I have had a disproportionate number of these units to deal with. Whilst I think it would be fair to say that the relatively small number of Onkyo AV receiver repairs I have had to deal with have mostly had HDMI board issues, it is still a very small number overall compared to units sold. Therefore that would also lead me to believe that in these small number of cases there may also be external factors involved in the early demise of the HDMI functionality. For example here is an excerpt from page 2 of the user manual for the Onkyo TX-SR606:

Onkyo-Free-Space.jpg


I am not sure how many people in reality really have the recommended free space or "flue like gap" around their receiver and therefore it could be quite easily argued that the product has not been used or installed according to the manufacturer's guidelines, thus rendering your warranty null and void. Whilst I am sure that the above recommended free space is erring on the side of caution, there is no doubt that restricting the airflow around any AV receiver, especially those that are know to run warm and need plenty of space, would inevitably decrease the lifespan of any components within the product.

Just my side of things, and I hope that perhaps it might help you make a decision one way or another. Might be a good opportunity to bite the bullet and to upgrade to a newer 3D capable AV receiver, perhaps one with network features and Airplay functionality too. :thumbsup:

Cheers,

Chris.
 
Mate id be back on to onkyo. A product should last longer than two years without fault. It's also a bit wrong in my opinion for crusty loafer to refer to your amp as low cost electronics. Depends how much you earn. You might also think 3d is mostly rubbish as I do and therefore have no need for for a 3d capable amp. Any electronics can fail but the shelf live of an av receiver at any cost should be much longer than two years. Good luck getting it sorted mate
 

Crustyloafer

Distinguished Member
It's also a bit wrong in my opinion for crusty loafer to refer to your amp as low cost electronics.

That is your opinion and you are of course entitled to it. My reference to it being a low cost item was referring specifically to that type of product relative to the rest of the market for that type of product. In the integrated AV receiver market they range roughly from about £250 to about £5000 and in that context and even within the context of Onkyo's range only it is a pretty low end product.

That's not to say a product that originally retailed for £400 should not last, but one that is well known to get very hot and thus require plenty of ventilation will inevitably be more susceptible to component failure due to incorrect installation/placement.
 

amleto

Standard Member
Given that the standard warranty on the Onkyo's is 2 years (3 Years on the bigger models) which is pretty generous compared to other similarly low priced consumer electronics I think it could be argued that it has lasted a reasonably sufficient length of time without requiring a repair.

If that was onkyo/retailer defence, I would be very happy come the court date! I very much doubt that a judge would agree that a reasonable person would expect a £400 rrp piece of equipment to fail within 3 years.
 

Crustyloafer

Distinguished Member
If that was onkyo/retailer defence, I would be very happy come the court date! I very much doubt that a judge would agree that a reasonable person would expect a £400 rrp piece of equipment to fail within 3 years.

Well it's not. These are my own personal views and nothing more. If it were then I would refer back to my earlier point that the manual states that a minimum of 20cm free space is required not only above but to either side of the product as well which I doubt very much that most users adhere to.

Anyway this is all beside the point, if the OP wishes to take things further with Onkyo or the retailer then so be it, I was just trying to point out what the other side of the argument might be should it reach a legal climax.
 
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BobbyMac

Banned
The SOGA states 6 years as a reasonable period of time for equipment to function as intended, no matter how long the manufacturers or retailers think is reasonable to them
 

Crustyloafer

Distinguished Member
The SOGA states 6 years as a reasonable period of time for equipment to function as intended, no matter how long the manufacturers or retailers think is reasonable to them

Provided it has been used and installed entirely within the manufacturer's guidelines.
 

BobbyMac

Banned
Provided it has been used and installed entirely within the manufacturer's guidelines.

Hence the part of my post that read "to function as intended"

TBH in this day in age with forums like this one any manufacturer or retailer using grey areas to dodge their consumer responsibilities would be in danger of a consumer backlash.

Unfortunately these days manufacturers believe in built in obsolescence to drive their future sales, wether that's to the consumers benefit is arguable
 

Crustyloafer

Distinguished Member
I think we should wait and see how the OP gets on with Onkyo/RS. We don't really know the whole story like exactly what aspect of the HDMI board has failed, whether there is physical damage to any of the sockets etc.

Anyway, best of luck to the OP and please do let us know if you make any progress one way or another.
 

YellowSphere

Novice Member
There is a difference between built in obsolescence and issues arising from backwards steps in build quality are completely unrelated. Let's all have a guess why AV Receivers are generally unreliable when compared to other audio electronics. Because they have more going on in them! In the interests of competition and the market that generally won't pay a higher price they have to cut somewhere, and that basically means that most AV manufacturers, Onkyo especially, would rather pay out huge sums in licensing costs for added technologies than actually building the thing well.

I don't think that Onkyo designed the 606 to have HDMI troubles, seeing how none of their other amplifiers, before or since, have to the extent that it is. Also because it would be completely stupid to do so.

Anyway, that's all a bit off topic. I have heard of people getting FOC repairs on out of guarantee 606s by going straight to Genserve? Might be worth a go, unless that's who you meant by "Onkyo's Service Department"?
 

Skyman1

Standard Member
Well, that's opened a can of worms I can see.
Thanks to everyone who has commented. The board I have been told needs some capacitors replacing to stop the unit switching to a blank screen and back on again, no matter which HDMI source is being used.
By Genserve do you mean Onkyo's sole authorised service agent? then yes I have spoken with them they told me £117, But it may not last. Biting the bullet I would pass on at the moment as funds are tight, although feel free to advise me of what you think I should aim for in that range. My priority would have to be reliability,performance,features and a second zone for speakers in the kitchen would be nice. Using Optical inputs I am ignorant too, but I guess the quality wouldn't be the same as HDMI would it?
The unit is in a cloak cupboard under the stairs ventilation I would say is adequate. I'm liking the SOGA being 6 years but think the onus is on me to prove design fault which may be difficult. I will keep you all posted should I have any luck. Many thanks to all.
 

Graham27

Well-known Member
The SOGA states 6 years as a reasonable period of time for equipment to function as intended, no matter how long the manufacturers or retailers think is reasonable to them
No, sorry, it doesn't. The 6 year period is only the limitation period for making a claim, it isn't how long any product is meant to last. Goods only have to last for as long as is fair and reasonable, dependent on a variety of factors.

The manufacturers warranty is separate from these statutory rights, so they can make their warranty as short as they see fit, and they can charge for repairs outside of this period. Any breach of statutory rights is different, and should be taken up with the retailer.

I think most people, and most Small Claims courts, would expect the item to last longer than 2 years without fault. But the problem is that not all non-working items are faulty. Hence why you have to demonstrate why the item is faulty, and not the result of misuse, damage, etc.

I'd be speaking to Richer Sounds to see if they have a procedure for out of warranty items, many other retailers do. If not, you could get your own independent fault report which may show an inherent fault and thus entitle you to a free repair and a refund of the report costs. The only thing to be wary of is that if it isn't an inherent fault, you'll have to pay for the repair and the report.

Good luck though, hope you get it sorted out :)
 

amleto

Standard Member
'proof' in this case is quite lax. If you can prove that the unit hasn't been opened (tamper proof seals?), that it hasn't been dropped (cosmetics are good) and state that it has been provided sufficient ventilation, then that would be pretty good proof to a reasonable person (imo, ianal) that the unit hasnt been mistreated. If it hasnt been mistreated, then the fault must be through normal use... On top of this you have anecdotal evidence that it is a common fault.

With all this in mind, even if you pay the repair and start a small claims, it's definitely possible the judge would not award 100% of the repair cost back to you.
 

Graham27

Well-known Member
'proof' in this case is quite lax. If you can prove that the unit hasn't been opened (tamper proof seals?), that it hasn't been dropped (cosmetics are good) and state that it has been provided sufficient ventilation, then that would be pretty good proof to a reasonable person (imo, ianal) that the unit hasnt been mistreated. If it hasnt been mistreated, then the fault must be through normal use...
Unfortunately not :( Everyone states they've looked after their product, even if they haven't. That's why you have to get the report, to verify exactly what's caused the fault.
 

YellowSphere

Novice Member
Bear in mind you'd of course have the retailer refund the cost of the report, most likely. Also, have you just spoken to RS at store level, or have you tried their call centre, who tend to be more understanding in my experience.
 

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