Question OLED Streaming apps refresh rate

Discussion in 'LG TVs Forum' started by gorman, Oct 29, 2017.


    1. gorman

      gorman
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      A question for you LG OLED owners.

      With video streaming apps (Netflix, Amazon Prime Video) are LG OLEDs doing reverse pulldown to display smooth 24fps content, do they switch refresh rate or are you locked at 60Hz displaying juddering content?

      Does Now TV display correctly at 50Hz?

      I ask this because all apps on my Xbox One S are uncapable of switching refresh rate (even though the box has specific options to allow that), everything goes out at 60Hz for a total judder fest, and I'd like to understand if I'd get better streaming once I upgrade my TV.

      Thanks in advance.
       
    2. SeeMoreDigital

      SeeMoreDigital
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      Most content on Netflix and Amazon Prime is distributed in its progressive form (ie: 23.976 or 24.000fps) without pull-down flags. All of NOW TV's content (including their on-demand movies) is distributed at 25.000fps, in-line with UK/EU broadcasting requirements...

      So my advice to you (or anyone else) is buy a 'smart TV' with all the necessary 'apps' built-in ;)
       
    3. gorman

      gorman
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      Hi! I appreciate you taking the time to answer my question but... I'm perfectly aware that Netflix and Amazon distribute content in 24p (or 25p for UK/European TV productions). As well as I'm aware that Now TV is all in 25p.

      The question was different, though. How do the LG OLEDs handle this content? Because my Xbox One S is stuck with a locked 60Hz refresh rate. Do LG OLEDs switch to the correct refresh according to content being streamed through their built-in apps (and in the UK you have all of them, Netflix, Prime Video, Now TV, BBC iPlayer, etc.)? Is the switch noticeable? Can one be 100% sure that it happens?

      I've been asking on AVS Forum as well but, so far, no clear answers. And if I can't find answers from AV enthusiasts forums... I'm left without options :)
       
    4. SeeMoreDigital

      SeeMoreDigital
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      The LG TV's automatically changes the panel's refresh-rate to accommodate the contents frame-rate. Indeed, all 'smart' TV's should do this...
       
    5. gorman

      gorman
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      Ok, good. So the user interface for Netflix, say, runs at 60Hz (or whatever LG OLEDs use as "regular" refresh rate. I suppose it has the video running in the background, for Netflix, as it does on Xbox One S, right? When you select playback start, it switches refresh rate without user input. Correct?

      I'm asking because, on Netflix for instance, you have 25p (BBC stuff, mainly) and 24p content. So I don't think it would be correct to have the GUI running at 24Hz (for smoothness reasons too).
       
    6. SeeMoreDigital

      SeeMoreDigital
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      Sufficed to say, content distributed via Netflix can run at any of the standardised fps speeds and the display will self adjust its refresh-rate. Plus 'smart' TV's will correctly adjust their refresh-rate when playing content via a USB pen-drive and/or over a network too!

      By-the-way... Just because the BBC is a UK organisation, doesn't mean that all of it's content runs at 25.000fps/50Hz. There's plenty of BBC content available on Blu-ray that runs at 23.976 fps progressive!

      Don't worry @gorman... 'Smart TV's' aren't just smart because of their 'apps'. They are way better at displaying video than any computer or a games console with a fixed refresh-rate ;)
       
    7. gorman

      gorman
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      Ok, thanks for your answers. I know BBC produces 23.976 stuff too but, say, Doctor Who or Luther or Torchwood and many others are 25fps.

      Also, bear in mind that the limitation regarding refresh rate is simply due to bad programming. I have an HTPC that automatically switches to the correct refresh rate with content played back (madVR handles that). Consoles are nowadays identical to PCs internally. The problem is only with software. :(

      Again, thanks for all your help. Much appreciated.
       
    8. SeeMoreDigital

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      Just-so-you-know...

      TV's and playback equipment have been able to automatically alter their refresh-rate for many years, even back in the old analogue CRT days.

      Indeed, over the years I've had multi-standard VCR's, Laserdisc, CDi and DVD players hooked up-to to CRT TV's either via composite, S-video or component analogue video that could all automatically alter their refresh-rates ;)

      And yes... Every now and again you will find some content that has either been encoded incorrectly and/or possess the wrong flagging meta-data :(
       
    9. MultiRoom

      MultiRoom
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      I'm not disagreeing with you, IMO you have the experience, whereas I only thought I knew based on what I've read......but can a CRT TV really automatically adjust it's refresh rate based on an analogue signal? I'm very surprised by this!
       
    10. jonspurs

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    11. gorman

      gorman
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      Thanks. I wrote there. I still don't own an LG OLED but I have it planned to buy it. It might be a 2017 model or I might just end up waiting as long as my old 60" Kuro doesn't give app. But the overall state of streaming apps playback is worrying in its being a complete clusterfrack...
       
    12. jonspurs

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      I've literally just found out myself that a new firmware has been release in Korea yesterday...someone will try it and let us know.
      I think you could get around the apps lip sync by using a HDMI stick - Roku/NowTV/FireStick...though don't quote me on it...I'm just guessing the internal apps have an issue and not external inputs.

      Jon
       
    13. SeeMoreDigital

      SeeMoreDigital
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      Personally, I haven't come across any major lip-sync issues yet.

      But I'm using ARC directly to an Oppo UDP-203 which I'm using as a pre-amp to serve four analogue stereo amplifiers...
       
    14. NicolasB

      NicolasB
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      The TV is not the problem, the source is. There are plenty of media streamer devices that cannot output 24Hz - the Nvidia Shield TV, for example, cannot play 4K Netflix material at 24Hz at all, and it also can't automatically switch refresh rates for 50Hz stuff (although you can switch it manually).

      The original poster's question was a perfectly reasonable one: just because a TV is capable of displaying 24Hz, that doesn't mean it's built-in apps will drive it at that rate. (In fact, on my Panasonic VT65, the built-in Netflix app used to display 24Hz material at 60Hz).
       
    15. NicolasB

      NicolasB
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      The answer to that question, actually, is "it depends on the settings, and on the app".

      Netflix switches internal refresh rate for 50Hz material correctly. It will play 24Hz as 24Hz if either you have RealCinema turned on and TrueMotion off, or you have TrueMotion on and De-Judder set to at least 1. (There are pros and cons to both of these options).

      I can't remember for sure, but I have the impression that everything in the YouTube app is played at 60Hz.

      Amazon I don't use, so I'm not sure.
       
    16. SeeMoreDigital

      SeeMoreDigital
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      Hardly any video sources actually run at 24.000fps not even on UHD disc's. Sufficed to say, 23.976 fps sources should be viewed at a 23.976Hz refresh-rate. Forcing them to run at 24Hz was and still is marketing pap!

      Anyway, I can confirm that Netflix, Amazon Video and NOW TV run at the correct frequencies. As I have them all ;)
       
    17. gorman

      gorman
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      Thanks SeeMoreDigital. And yeah, I use 24Hz just for shortness. I know that 99% of material out there is at 23.976Hz (save from a handful of BluRays that for whatever reason are actually 24fps).
       
    18. NicolasB

      NicolasB
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      Btw, gorman, another thing you may have an issue with is audio. Several people have already mentioned the possible lip sync problem. Another is that it can be difficult to get a sound format any more demanding than plain DD or DTS out of the television, if you want to send it to an external audio processor/amp/receiver.

      2016 LG TVs can't output anything above DD or DTS at all (which means you don't get the full benefit of the DD+ sound in Netflix). 2017 models are capable of outputting DD+, or even DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD, via ARC; but only some AV amps are able to handle those formats coming in via ARC (even if they can handle them coming in via one of their regular HDMI inputs).
       
      Last edited: Oct 30, 2017
    19. gorman

      gorman
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      I have to be honest: losing out on Atmos (whenever I will upgrade) would bother me. The difference among DD and DD+, in my opinion, is not worth much.
       
    20. SeeMoreDigital

      SeeMoreDigital
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      In order to hear Atmos audio "in all its proper glory" you will need a surround sound amplifier that can decode it. Do you have one of these?
       
    21. gorman

      gorman
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      Yeah, I'm fully aware. No, I don't. I currently use a Yamaha RX-A3010 which I plan to upgrade when I'll upgrade to 4K.
       

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