OLED SCREEN BURN ( permanent image retention)

fluxedman

Well-known Member
I am quite surprised that John Lewis over burn in protection. Surely the vast majority of people that have the £140 burn in protection cover will find that their TV's suffer from burn in at some point in the second half of the fifth year of cover?

LG have apparently addressed the issue, with better software techniques, tweaks, manufacture process improvements. Its been enough for 99% other retailers to believe and simply not sell burn in cover, JL however at least give the customer the option which imo still makes them no1 in my books.
 

SMLMckenzie

Active Member
LG have apparently addressed the issue, with better software techniques, tweaks, manufacture process improvements. Its been enough for 99% other retailers to believe and simply not sell burn in cover, JL however at least give the customer the option which imo still makes them no1 in my books.

That is why I am surprised that John Lewis offer the policy. It is basically a policy that allows OLED owners to upgrade their TV's in 4 and a half years time for only £140.
 

fluxedman

Well-known Member
That is why I am surprised that John Lewis offer the policy. It is basically a policy that allows OLED owners to upgrade their TV's in 4 and a half years time for only £140.

Possible, but I think they would just replace only the panel, but same TV.

The reason why many 2015-2018 OLED owners got an exchange or voucher option was due to curved panels and different OLED type screens that they stopped producing or were expensive to source.
 

fluxedman

Well-known Member
Agee to the thoughts mentioned earlier, it is getting harder to return OLEDs due to poor picture quality be it uniformity, banding or tinting etc but yeah its not just John Lewis doing it, have read many other retailers doing it, AO, Richer sounds and others. We have to remember under consumer protection law, if we have been sold unsatisfactory goods, we can return it to for a full refund, even if we do have to bump a few heads to get it sorted.

Its a sad time really and frankly LG and manufacturers need better quality control and better within specification assessments, its unreasonable to spend £1000+ on a TV that may have poor image quality.

These so called Engineer assessments or QC checks imo are not correctly done or managed,
You wouldn't buy a brand new Ferrari scratched.
 

Goooner

Distinguished Member
It seems to be much harder to return OLEDs for uniformity issues/faults. Even Richersounds who i and most others consider outstanding for returns, hide behind "within spec" it seems.
That alone without even considering the burn in fear has put me off buying an OLED.
If I were to buy an OLED though I think Costco would be the safest option.
Had no problems with Richer Sounds last year, getting my C8 panel replaced for a dead pixel.

Couldn’t have been easier, sent pictures of the fault, put in touch with the local repairer who came to my house and replaced the panel, despite Covid.

Was expecting them to want to take it away.
 

Jynmagic

Standard Member
It seems to be much harder to return OLEDs for uniformity issues/faults. Even Richersounds who i and most others consider outstanding for returns, hide behind "within spec" it seems.
That alone without even considering the burn in fear has put me off buying an OLED.
If I were to buy an OLED though I think Costco would be the safest option.
Im gonna try one more time before I give up on oleds. This time Ill open it in a way where I can quickly test it without assembling it and not taking it out of the packaging anymore than I need to. Then Ill seal it and say it was unused if its a sh*tty panel.

Ill probably go with sony this time, maybe phillips or panasonic after more reviews. Just need to wait till november price drop.
 

drokkeh

Active Member
Opened a case with LG about my E6 55inch OLED image retention in July. They offered a panel replacement for £200 but I didnt take up the offer at the time as I was busy with work etc. Just re-opened the case and called them and they said the offer still stands to replace the panel for £200.

Although the guy on Customer Service did say that their repair centre moved in September or something and they will be able to start taking repair bookings in around 2 weeks, so i need to call back then.

I told him my model was the last 3D model from 2016 and he confirmed they would replace it with a 2D panel (didnt say what panel year) as they dont have replacement 3D panels anymore.
 

Jynmagic

Standard Member
Opened a case with LG about my E6 55inch OLED image retention in July. They offered a panel replacement for £200 but I didnt take up the offer at the time as I was busy with work etc. Just re-opened the case and called them and they said the offer still stands to replace the panel for £200.

Although the guy on Customer Service did say that their repair centre moved in September or something and they will be able to start taking repair bookings in around 2 weeks, so i need to call back then.

I told him my model was the last 3D model from 2016 and he confirmed they would replace it with a 2D panel (didnt say what panel year) as they dont have replacement 3D panels anymore.
They have to give you a refund if they cant replace it. Saying that though, if you go the refund route they might start to play dirty.
 
D

Deleted member 29597

Guest
So, as I am considering a 65" C1 to replace a kaput Philips should I really be looking at a Samsung neo QLED instead?

Usage, films, documentaries and (potentially the killer) F1 on Sky with a permanent driver list down the left side.

Obviously, the C1 will give better film performance but if there's a chance that I'll have to go through the hoops in somewhere between 3 & 5 years I'd rather avoid that.

I already have an 11 year old Samsung plasma and a 15 year old Pioneer plasma in other rooms, both of which have performed faultlessly since new and I'm kind of expecting my new set to get somewhere close to that otherwise what's the point of progress?
 
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BillRawles

Active Member
As much as they're not without their own faults, I'd be looking at Sony LCDs before a Samsung. Android/Google TV is very decent now. I wouldn't get hung up on the the lack of Dolby Vision in the Samsung but some would so I'll mention it. I prefer the way Sony like to keep the detail on screen but you will lose out on inky black bars - Sammy go the opposite way, try to retain the black bars but you'll also lose some of the image.
 

lisbonlion

Well-known Member
I was all prepared to go for a XH9505 but then went in to John Lewis and was blown away by how much better the a80 looked. I had discounted oled due to potential screen burn but have read that it shouldn't be as much of a problem any more.

We currently use the tv for a dnd Skype session once a week for around 5-6 hours at a time. Is this too much of a risk? I'm not sure if there is a way to remove all static parts of a Skype window.
 

BillRawles

Active Member
If it involves red/yellows for extended periods, that's a definite no no. All you can do is set OLED light fairly low and hope for the best.

In saying that, don't read too much into how much they've improved burn-in protection, they've said the same thing in every annual iteration of these TVs and it's been bull. . . .although 2018 model cases do seem fairly low, not zero as some would have you believe - the next year will tell a lot.
 

mikej

Well-known Member
I was all prepared to go for a XH9505 but then went in to John Lewis and was blown away by how much better the a80 looked. I had discounted oled due to potential screen burn but have read that it shouldn't be as much of a problem any more.

We currently use the tv for a dnd Skype session once a week for around 5-6 hours at a time. Is this too much of a risk? I'm not sure if there is a way to remove all static parts of a Skype window.
I would try and remove any static elements that you can and make sure you use a picture mode with modest luminance/brightness/colour settings that aren't too high. Basically, the lower you set these settings to, the less of a risk they'll be.

Zooming the picture is another option if the TV has that facility - this can work quite well for static elements (banners etc) at the top and bottom of the screen.
 

blerks

Novice Member
All OLED tvs will have burn in eventually either 1 month or 2 years
They may try new materials, new organic technology but regardless they are still testing on the wild. No one knows how many hours will these new OLED panels will prevent burn in compared to those released 2 years ago

If people buy OLED expecting to last more than 2 years they are nuts
 

cj101

Active Member
My 2016 LG 65 E6 had developed significant image retention by April of this year.

Taken a few months of discussion between myself, LG and the retailer but the result is a replacement 65 C1 being delivered on Friday. All credit to the retailer for stepping up in the absence of any available replacement panels from LG.
 

simonliu79

Active Member
My 2016 LG 65 E6 had developed significant image retention by April of this year.

Taken a few months of discussion between myself, LG and the retailer but the result is a replacement 65 C1 being delivered on Friday. All credit to the retailer for stepping up in the absence of any available replacement panels from LG.
Result! Can I ask who the retailer was?
 

stephentw

Active Member
Is it purely anecdotal that there seems to be less Panasonic burn/retention or are they just selling less so not as talked about?

I'm going for a JZ1500 I think and at £2700 I don't fancy a fight with them if it develops this issue, it sounds like a nightmare and I sympathise with anyone in this situation.
 

WarHog

Member
Is it purely anecdotal that there seems to be less Panasonic burn/retention or are they just selling less so not as talked about?

I'm going for a JZ1500 I think and at £2700 I don't fancy a fight with them if it develops this issue, it sounds like a nightmare and I sympathise with anyone in this situation.
The JZ1500 is generally sold around £1,999
 

massivetoe

Standard Member
Oled has only been used in mainstream home entertainment for a very short time and it's long term life span is yet to be seen .
There has been talk and fears of screen burn since they became available to the mass market in 2013 but has anyone actually got screen burn on there Oled TV ?
I have used and abused my Oled's for over 5 years and never seen any screen burn to date on my sets with mixed use and low brightness level of 35.


Is OLED the right choice for you?

Even though my experience with OLED has been great I don't think OLED is for everyone, if your a heavy news channel user or sports fan I would recommend you think twice about buying an OLED TV.
The red/ yellow banners on news and sports channels can and will in time cause permitted image retention.

If you own or have owned an OLED that had PRI ,BI SB could you share your story and photos if possible?

Update 1-3-21

We have our first 2018 C8 with permanent image retention.
Not good news as these newer panles have a larger red sub pixel to help again PIR, this set was only 2 years old.
Luckily the owners 5 years warranty with D n G did the right thing and replaced his set for a new one.

Thanks to @rongood for sharing his story.

Update 2-2-21

Perminant image retention could well be a thing of the past with new oled technology in the latest 2021 evo panels.


23-1-2020 update
I read a very interesting review on the new Panasonic oled model which uses cooling fans to reach well over 1000 nits plus helping limit perminate image retention.
Heat having an effect on SB/PIR is something I had never thought of over the years when trying to understand why some were getting SB/PIR easier than others .
It's been thought by many that using a lower oled light setting over a higher one would extend the time before it would happen but not for the reasons once thought .
It was thought each oled oled sub pixel which like a bucket on paint , one red, green,blue and white .
And each hour of consecutive use would in even use that paint unless the buckets run dry which show as permanent image retention.
If Panasonic are correct and cooling the panel does reduce PIR then in effect the paint in the buckets has not just been being used over concecutive acumalivite use but actually drying out when getting hot .
I find this very interesting and if proven true could be great news for the future of oled .

14-4-2018 update .

LG have confirmed last week to Ratings.com reviewers that there is indeed a variance between panels that makes some more susceptible to screen burn than others .
They are now also replacing or repairing panels with screen burn under warranty for the first 12 months .
They are also repairing 2017 sets with 25% calibration test pattern image retention for up to 5 years from date of purchase.


We have a member who has RTL channels logo burn in from 4 hours viewing a day , his tv was replaced as faulty but now his second is starting to show the same problem as he continues to watch RTL.

Another with burn in from yellow subtitles .

A guy that mostly watches HDR movies in 1.35.1 which has left image retention from the top and bottom black bars .
(This now seams to have been resolved by watching full screen content in between his films)

And the worst so far was from the sky news banner .


As warned by LG in there manual oled can get what they call sticking image , we know it as permanent image retention my theory so far is where some of the 4 coloured sub pixels that make up the WRGB pixel fade fast than less used ones in that pixel , bold coloured logo’s or banners left on screen for many hours at a time will wear the colour sub pixel and its luminance will drop leaving permanent image retention.

And that is sticking image ,screen burn, burn in or permanent image retention or what ever you like to call it .


Below is an example of this happening
These are photo form ratings screen burn test on a B6 oled tv .
Look at the top left logo

View attachment 929303
View attachment 929304


it's still not so clear as to what level of use they can stand before this sub pixel wear ,if your daily consists of viewing mainly sky news , sky sports , or other channels with a bold logo on or Gaming with HUDS on with or without HDR then your OLED could be at risk of burn in .
Using a higher oled light setting may also speed up pixel ageing problem.
OLED may not be your best choice of display technology if your a big sports fan who watchs mostly sky sports and sky sports news .
If that sounds like your viewing habits you may want to go with an LCD tv.

It may also be possible that some sets develop problems where the software does not function correctly in stopping the screen cycle to do its job.
( never turn off you oled at the wall it needs power to do a screen clear cycle when in Standby)

when some panels are manufactured something in that process can cause some panels to be more susceptible to Permanent image retention.

One thing is becoming clear Ex display OLED is a NO NO , screen burn on demo sets is very common .

Also the colour yellow within a channel logo or the sky news banner look to be a definite cause of PIR.


Some shared photos so far

View attachment 980234
View attachment 980235
View attachment 980236
View attachment 980237
View attachment 980238
View attachment 980239
View attachment 980240

Big thanks to @mad steve , @Shocked @Leander @Gary5779 @doug56hl for sharing there oled burn in nightmares .


PIR Prevention

MIX YOUR CONTENT!

USE A LOWER OLED LIGHT SETTING (50 or below)

If you really want to keep an eye on PIR download the free calibration disk from the link below , pop the file on to a usb and plug it in to your set .
Use the photo and video app on your tv to play the file .
Open colourHCFR fields folder then open 100% colour , test all 7 colours and look for any image retention of any kind .
If you were to do this once a month you would catch any damage in the early stages and then prevent It from causing Permanent damage by adjusting you viewing habits.

MP4-2c.7z


Latest news is a guy won a court case against LG for screen burn and got a full refund .
Other owners with screen burn on the sky tv forums have now had there tv repaired by LG under warranty.

IMO LG have been very silly not replace or repair these sets with screen burn from the start as there so small amounts of cases out there .

How will companies like Sony and Panasonic now deal with screen burn cases ?

LG OLED screen burn in issues - Page 20 - Sky Community

I also think some blame should be with Service providers , logos used to be much worse than they are now but over the years some more responsible service providers like BBC,channel 4 have dimmed there logos greatly .
Sky in the other hand clearly don’t care as sky news and sky news sports have the most harmful banners and logos to date .
There really is no need for brightness and boldness of there banners and logos , if they were to correct this we all could then enjoy the best picture quality available to day .


Ratings latest screen burn tests are on 6 C7 LG oled . Owning a c7 myself I’ll be watching this test closely, I do think it’s obvious which of the test will fail and which will be fine .

Real Life OLED Burn In Test on 6 TVs


LG have now stated they will cover screen burn for the first 12 months .

OLED SCREEN BURN ( permanent image retention)
OLED SCREEN BURN ( permanent image retention)

“LG offer screen burn repairs under there 12 manufacturing warranty if you have followed the process of running several screen cleans. However if you are now a year outside of said warranty your no longer able to get a free repair. If LG had deemed the tv was faulty and not been abused within 12 months LG would of replaced or repaired the tv”
So, my E8 (2018) has screen burn. 3 years normal use. It is in a bright room, so the brightness is usually pretty high. But I've always used Pixel refresher, had logo luminance up high and had screen shift activated. Always had varying content.

See attached picture below. Worst bit is the dark middle. See if you can spot anything else. I do use this for PC usage too (auto hide task bar).

It's under warranty with domestic and general. The retailer provided the extra to take it up to 5 years. The engineer today (TVRS in Motherwell) sounded optimistic, but I'll wait for the official verdict from D&G.
 

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