OLED SCREEN BURN ( permanent image retention)

I don't think time has elapsed to illustrate just how or if 2018/19 sets are more resistant to burn in.

I think we can comfortably assess this in 2 years or so times with a retrospective poll.
You are correct that in that screen burn can generally expect to accumulate over 2 or 3 years.

However, using the OLED burn in poll we can compare the reported burn in rates from 2018/2019 sets now with the reported rates for 2017/2018 setc one year ago.

From:

"2018 sets currently have a reported burn-in rate of 4.9%. Exactly 1 year ago, 2017 sets had a reported burn in rate of of 7%. The 2018 sets now have a reported rate of burn-in that is 70% the level that 2017 sets had one year ago. This indicates that 2018 sets are less susceptible to burn in than 2017 sets. In this case though the difference between these two model years is much less stark than between the 2017 and 2016 sets."
 

There all at it
Interestingly that monitor tops out at 400 nits. Only half the peak brightness of an LG OLED panel in a TV. (I assume that this is using an LG panel.) I wonder if this is one of the ways to reduce the chance of burn in.

This also makes me wonder - do LG limit peak brightness on their new X range when the TV detects that it is being used for gaming?
 
Interestingly that monitor tops out at 400 nits. Only half the peak brightness of an LG OLED panel in a TV. (I assume that this is using an LG panel.) I wonder if this is one of the ways to reduce the chance of burn in.

This also makes me wonder - do LG limit peak brightness on their new X range when the TV detects that it is being used for gaming?
Yeah I think that could be for two reasons ,first being monitors are in your face like you sit feet away from it so from 800 nits would be painful at that distance.
Second limit burn in .

LG have been reducing peak HDR brightness in game mode on there sets for years , my c9 doesn't seem to be held back by this at all
I've not seen there new oled monitor states yet maybe it's also in the low 400s
 
Has the lit pixel gone away? I assume your set probably has some similar functionality that runs automatically.
Hi
I first saw the white pixel last night at 8pm, and it was there when the TV was in standby. I left home this morning at 3am to catch a flight and the pixel wasn't on the screen, however when I turned the TV on it was there again.
Annoyingly I am now away for three weeks so I cannot check.
Loewe TVs do some kind of reset when you turn the TV off but I don't know what it is.
I googled it and someone suggest turning the TV off for 24 hours.
 
I will probably get a LGCX later on this year for my gaming and tv use probably 50/ 50 split so will see how it does with burn in
 
Yeah I think that could be for two reasons ,first being monitors are in your face like you sit feet away from it so from 800 nits would be painful at that distance.
Second limit burn in .

LG have been reducing peak HDR brightness in game mode on there sets for years , my c9 doesn't seem to be held back by this at all
I've not seen there new oled monitor states yet maybe it's also in the low 400s


I think maybe if you saw your C9 in HDR side by side with my Q9FN I think you'd see how much impact HDR really can have and what those extra nits do make, especially with lights etc. It really stands out, especially in games.
It's the first thing I noticed between my Oled and Q9FN . In fact my whole family noticed it right of the bat.

I understand and can see the benifits Oled offers over Qled in other parts, but HDR isn't one of them to me personally.. No matter how hard we can try to convice ourselfs HDR just needs more nits if you want the full effect.. Going duller to protect the panel i can understand but surly it is going backwards for HDR no matter how we look at it really ?

Remember when Sony removed the rumble feature from there joypads, saying it's not needed and so last gen. When in fact it was because they didn't want to pay the royalties lol.

I can't help but think if going duller is there only option to protect Oleds with HDR content... When the next wave of mini/micro and dual layer HDR Qleds come out, Oled HDR will be left behind.

But this is just my opinion based on what I'm currently seeing between my 2 TVs while in HDR mode.
 
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I think maybe if you saw your C9 in HDR side by side with my Q9FN I think you'd see how much impact HDR really can have and what those extra nits do make, especially with lights etc. It really stands out, especially in games.
It's the first thing I noticed between my Oled and Q9FN . In fact my whole family noticed it right of the bat.

I understand and can see the benifits Oled offers over Qled in other parts, but HDR isn't one of them to me personally.. No matter how hard we can try to convice ourselfs HDR just needs more nits if you want the full effect.. Going duller to protect the panel i can understand but surly it is going backwards for HDR no matter how we look at it really ?

Remember when Sony removed the rumble feature from there joypads, saying it's not needed and so last gen. When in fact it was because they didn't want to pay the royalties lol.

I can't help but think if going duller is there only option to protect Oleds with HDR content... When the next wave of mini/micro and dual layer HDR Qleds come out, Oled HDR will be left behind.

But this is just my opinion based on what I'm currently seeing between my 2 TVs while in HDR mode.
I've seen HDR on Qled with double the nits of my oled and it looks great and better but only for short periods of time .
Its too bright for my eyes in a light controlled environment, I dont watch much HDR content but when I do it's late evening with the lights out.
When and if all tv content is in HDR then great the extra nits would come in handy for day time viewing , but at night time is when I get to do my tv viewing i would need a HDR darkroom preset with 1000 nit max or I would have to have lamp on .
I need pitch black with no distracting to really let my hair down ,switch off from the real world and get engrossed in the movie I'm watching or box sets I'm watching.
And in that dark environment LED just fails apart when there are dark scenes , when led pumps out all thoses nit to highlights in a dark scenes it shows all problems that LED have ( light bleed,haze,blooming,halo)and that is so distracting , all the realism the higher nits give in bright day time scenes are wiped out by dark scenes.
Present day led will never be fit for purpose in my viewing conditions.
My most pleasurable HDR experience is DV in cinema picture preset in a darm room , just perfect
 
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I've seen HDR on Qled with double the nits of my oled and it looks great and better but only for short periods of time .
Its too bright for my eyes in a light controlled environment, I dont watch much HDR content but when I do it's late evening with the lights out.
When and if all tv content is in HDR then great the extra nits would come in handy for day time viewing , but at night time is when I get to do my tv viewing i would need a HDR darkroom preset with 1000 nit max or I would have to have lamp on .
I need pitch black with no distracting to really let my hair down ,switch off from the real world and get engrossed in the movie I'm watching or box sets I'm watching.
And in that dark environment LED just fails apart when there are dark scenes , when led pumps out all thoses nit to highlights in a dark scenes it shows all problems that LED have ( light bleed,haze,blooming,halo)and that is so distracting , all the realism the higher nits give in bright day time scenes are wiped out by dark scenes.
Present day led will never be fit for purpose in my viewing conditions.
My most pleasurable HDR experience is DV in cinema picture preset in a darm room , just perfect
For me there are three key points around OLED brightness:
(1) You watch TV in a dark room. I wonder what proportion of TV users watch their TV in the dark? I imagine the proportion is much higher in members of this forum.

Personally I do not like watching a TV without either some bias lighting behind the set - I have a remote control Philips hue light strip set to a dim white on the back of my TV - or a dimmable Hue lamp in the corner of the room.

For people, who watch TV in a brighter environment those extra nits can be very useful.

(2) The use of black frame insertion (BFI) for better motion. For me BFI is much better than motion compensation frame interpolation - which always adds some artefacts.

This years LG OLED models will be the first to use BFI. However, to use BFI successfully a display has to have a very high peak brightness - as use of BFI significantly dims the screen.

For example, my Sony ZD9 has a peak brightness between 1500 and 2000 nits. However, if I turn BFI up to 2 out of 5 then I need to set the brightness to max to compensate for the dimming effect of BFI.

As an aside if I turn BFI up to maximum the display becomes dim and flickery - however this is the only level of BFI that results in "perfect" motion. For example, if you look at a motion test such as the following you see what is actually being displayed in each frame even when watching the moving UFO - i.e. white bars with black gaps that move across the screen - and not sample and hold induced motion blur - which makes you see black boxes moving against a grey background.


What you should see is this - even when watching the moving UFO. If you do not then that is because your display is blurring the image (well actually your eyes are the display is not blurred) due to sample and hold motion blurring.

UFO Motion.jpg


So to get perfect motion with BFI we need displays with a peak brightness much higher than 2,000 nits (when measured without BFI - which is the normal case) - because the BFI results in such a reduction in peak brightness.

This may be why 2019 LG OLED sets were apparently capable of BFI but it was LG pulled the feature before release. It will be interesting to see if the 2020 sets have BFI that can be effective without making the display so dim that it becomes unwatchable - except perhaps in a completely black room.

(3) OLED brightness is significantly impacted by ABL. We keep talking about OLED peak brightness as if it is constantly around 800 nits. However, all OLEDs significantly reduce their brightness as the average brightness level of a scene increases. For example, a small white area can be very bright but if the whole screen is white e.g. a snowscene, then the whole screen will dim significantly. This is shown in the table below. For a small area of white the Samsung is "only" 34% brighter than the OLED but for a complete white screen the Samsung is almost 4 times as bright as the LG!

% screen covered
by white window
LG C9 (nits)Samsung Q90R (nits)How much brighter is Q90R?
2​
855​
1145​
33.92%​
10​
845​
1487​
75.98%​
25​
530​
1275​
140.57%​
50​
301​
816​
171.10%​
100​
145​
536​
269.66%​
 
most of the HDR displayed on the screen is 300 nits or lower its only the specular highlight detail that gets up to peak brightness
 
Hi folks
I seem to be yet another lg OLED c7 owner with a tv now displaying signs of burn in / banding. See attached pics. The tv was bought just over two years ago which, from reading various threads, seems to be a common point where these issues start to show themselves, dependent on use obviously. I have read taximanias fantastic post (thanks for that) and am about to make a claim to curry’s based on the tv not being of satisfactory quality, rather than specifically a warranty issue which may give them more wriggle room. I will be happy to take to small claims if necessary as I certainly have not abused/misused the tv being well aware of the potential for burn in and having owned a Panasonic plasma for over 10yrs without issue and still going strong.
Does anyone have any advice as to how best to proceed? eg tread gently and just call curry’s customer service in first instance, or do you feel I may have a battle on my hands and so putting things in writing at the start may be best? Many thanks.
 

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For me there are three key points around OLED brightness:
(1) You watch TV in a dark room. I wonder what proportion of TV users watch their TV in the dark? I imagine the proportion is much higher in members of this forum.

Personally I do not like watching a TV without either some bias lighting behind the set - I have a remote control Philips hue light strip set to a dim white on the back of my TV - or a dimmable Hue lamp in the corner of the room.

For people, who watch TV in a brighter environment those extra nits can be very useful.

(2) The use of black frame insertion (BFI) for better motion. For me BFI is much better than motion compensation frame interpolation - which always adds some artefacts.

This years LG OLED models will be the first to use BFI. However, to use BFI successfully a display has to have a very high peak brightness - as use of BFI significantly dims the screen.

For example, my Sony ZD9 has a peak brightness between 1500 and 2000 nits. However, if I turn BFI up to 2 out of 5 then I need to set the brightness to max to compensate for the dimming effect of BFI.

As an aside if I turn BFI up to maximum the display becomes dim and flickery - however this is the only level of BFI that results in "perfect" motion. For example, if you look at a motion test such as the following you see what is actually being displayed in each frame even when watching the moving UFO - i.e. white bars with black gaps that move across the screen - and not sample and hold induced motion blur - which makes you see black boxes moving against a grey background.


What you should see is this - even when watching the moving UFO. If you do not then that is because your display is blurring the image (well actually your eyes are the display is not blurred) due to sample and hold motion blurring.

View attachment 1255401

So to get perfect motion with BFI we need displays with a peak brightness much higher than 2,000 nits (when measured without BFI - which is the normal case) - because the BFI results in such a reduction in peak brightness.

This may be why 2019 LG OLED sets were apparently capable of BFI but it was LG pulled the feature before release. It will be interesting to see if the 2020 sets have BFI that can be effective without making the display so dim that it becomes unwatchable - except perhaps in a completely black room.

(3) OLED brightness is significantly impacted by ABL. We keep talking about OLED peak brightness as if it is constantly around 800 nits. However, all OLEDs significantly reduce their brightness as the average brightness level of a scene increases. For example, a small white area can be very bright but if the whole screen is white e.g. a snowscene, then the whole screen will dim significantly. This is shown in the table below. For a small area of white the Samsung is "only" 34% brighter than the OLED but for a complete white screen the Samsung is almost 4 times as bright as the LG!

% screen covered
by white window
LG C9 (nits)Samsung Q90R (nits)How much brighter is Q90R?
2​
855​
1145​
33.92%​
10​
845​
1487​
75.98%​
25​
530​
1275​
140.57%​
50​
301​
816​
171.10%​
100​
145​
536​
269.66%​
There is the only valid point for more oled nits that could improve my viewing experience .
I've experimented with BFI on my c9 for SDR and I most got used to the flicking but not quite.
It was amazing at times untill bright scenes appear. I was thinking of starting a partition to get LG to release a FW with 120hz BFI like that which is coming on the 2020 sets as the 2019 60hz version is not fit for use.
In the us there had one fw on c9 that gave BFI options to switch it on in levels which work very well at a lower setting rather than the on or off option we had .

I've been watching an oled screen for over 5 years now so I think my brain has adjusted to its motion very well to the point that i dont see any issues untill I see a panning shot in HDR ,but SDR is perfectly fine at 130 nits to my eyes .
ABL again is something my brain must be used to because I can honestly say I never notice it , this could be that before oled a had plasma which is another tech with Abl.
It must be 18 years of ABL panels for me so I dont know any better i guess, it's amazing what your brain can do with processed imagery.
 
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Out of curiosity how many use hours have you logged on the tv in that 2 year time span?
 
Out of curiosity how many use hours have you logged on the tv in that 2 year time span?
Hi lumper
Just checked and usage is just over 9700hrs, 1300 comp cycles run and 5 pixel refreshes. From date of purchase I’ve worked out tv has been on an average of 11-12hrs per day. Maybe higher than the typical user?! 😬
 
Before getting on the defensive, why don’t you speak to Curry’s first and see what they say?

Lots of people have had success getting burn in sorted recently you only have to search the numerous threads to see that.
 
Before getting on the defensive, why don’t you speak to Curry’s first and see what they say?

Lots of people have had success getting burn in sorted recently you only have to search the numerous threads to see that.
Thanks Fergal
Yes I do intend to just have the conversation with curry’s in the first instance. Certainly don’t intend to get on the phone and start off with an aggressive stance or being arsey. Looking for them to assist after all. I just felt that perhaps stating the ‘fit for purpose’ route may avoid the issue, from the threads I have read so far, of people being rejected on the basis of burn in not being a warranty issue.
Cheers
 
Thanks Fergal
Yes I do intend to just have the conversation with curry’s in the first instance. Certainly don’t intend to get on the phone and start off with an aggressive stance or being arsey. Looking for them to assist after all. I just felt that perhaps stating the ‘fit for purpose’ route may avoid the issue, from the threads I have read so far, of people being rejected on the basis of burn in not being a warranty issue.
Cheers
It’s definitely a good idea to be equipped with a plan b but chat to them first and see what they say
 
Hi lumper
Just checked and usage is just over 9700hrs, 1300 comp cycles run and 5 pixel refreshes. From date of purchase I’ve worked out tv has been on an average of 11-12hrs per day. Maybe higher than the typical user?! 😬
Hi, thanks for that information.
I dont know what they classify that as, I know my average use is higher.
I do believe you will have good luck with getting it replaced from LG.
Others on the Reddit boards in the US have had their panels replaced up to 4 years after purchase, LG told me in an email that as a courtesy they generally do replace them if they can ascertain that in fact burn in has occurred and not some other issue, I dont think your usage will be a factor.
I would try the store you bought it from first, see what happens there, then I would appeal to LG, actually I might just send an email to both to see what each has to say, but there is a decent chance they will take care of you and replace it for you.
Good luck.
 
Hi, thanks for that information.
I dont know what they classify that as, I know my average use is higher.
I do believe you will have good luck with getting it replaced from LG.
Others on the Reddit boards in the US have had their panels replaced up to 4 years after purchase, LG told me in an email that as a courtesy they generally do replace them if they can ascertain that in fact burn in has occurred and not some other issue, I dont think your usage will be a factor.
I would try the store you bought it from first, see what happens there, then I would appeal to LG, actually I might just send an email to both to see what each has to say, but there is a decent chance they will take care of you and replace it for you.
Good luck.
Thanks. Good to know you have higher use.
Yes lg in US does seem to have better customer care. Are you saying lg UK told you that they can replace for burn in? Case by case basis applies no doubt.
I’ve emailed curry’s today and will update with their response in due course.
 
No, LG in the US told me that.
I assumed it would be anywhere, I mean I just went to the lg site and hit contact and then emailed them with my questions and that is what they told me.
I dont know if they can tell by my email where I am from or not, but it never came up.
 
Ok. Thanks for confirming. I’ll use that as my next port of call depending on response from curry’s.👍
 
Reply from curry’s today:
“Please be advised that upon checking our systems with your information you have provided, I can confirm the the TV is outside of the warranty period and would kindly ask that you contact a member of our out of warranty team on 0344 561 6666.”

Firstly I wasn’t specifically making a warranty claim anyway but rather a claim on the basis of not fit for purpose.

Secondly, I’m pretty sure the tv came with a 5yr warranty although I didn’t receive any paperwork for it. Would that not have been the case for this tv given it was bought November 2017?

So next stage will be a call to the ‘out of warranty team’ at the weekend when I return from holiday.
 
It seems to me that if you use the pixel refresher, and other built in anti burn in tech the LG tvs provide plus reduce your oled brightness to 50% and obviously dont play games or channels that keep bright static images on screen for hours a day everyday we should be fine.

Oleds organics are the weakness they degrade in time, what degrades them?
Heat, thermal acceleration so if you can reduce heat, and limit brightness and avoid bright static images I think you can enjoy the panel for many years.
I plan to use a quiet little fan behind my panel to help dissipate heat, it can only help.

That being said I have talked to many users who dont worry about any of that stuff and after 4 and 5 years still have no signs of burn in, I think the whole thing is blown out of proportion.

It is a concern when you spend thousands of dollars on a new tv, you want to know it isnt goign to be burnt after 2 or 3 years, I feel the same way and was concerned, but then I did 3 weeks of research, and now I feel so good about it, I spent 2300 and ordered a 65" E9, I plan to game on it daily, as well as stream videos, use youtube, watch cable tv, dvd movies, etc... not worried even a little.
 
It seems to me that if you use the pixel refresher, and other built in anti burn in tech the LG tvs provide plus reduce your oled brightness to 50% and obviously dont play games or channels that keep bright static images on screen for hours a day everyday we should be fine.

Oleds organics are the weakness they degrade in time, what degrades them?
Heat, thermal acceleration so if you can reduce heat, and limit brightness and avoid bright static images I think you can enjoy the panel for many years.
I plan to use a quiet little fan behind my panel to help dissipate heat, it can only help.

That being said I have talked to many users who dont worry about any of that stuff and after 4 and 5 years still have no signs of burn in, I think the whole thing is blown out of proportion.

It is a concern when you spend thousands of dollars on a new tv, you want to know it isnt goign to be burnt after 2 or 3 years, I feel the same way and was concerned, but then I did 3 weeks of research, and now I feel so good about it, I spent 2300 and ordered a 65" E9, I plan to game on it daily, as well as stream videos, use youtube, watch cable tv, dvd movies, etc... not worried even a little.
Good luck with that .I dont play games and have a logo burn in and the setting bar on the left hand side has burnt in white . .so it's not blown out of proportion. I had my tv changed and they advised go for a qled
 

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