OLED, owned 4 different models. Disappointed.

ashenfie

Well-known Member
I think that I am in the camp that does not see judder partially. I can see it when I look for it but I can tune out. 24Hz material is always going to suffer. Better TVs highlight it rather than hide it. The only solutions is to mess with the processing with the effectively making the picture worse. So unless film producers up the frame rate, its always going to be there.
 

Fx1

Active Member
How can someones experience of their OLED be a load of rubbish?
If he can't see any motion issues, then he can't see any motion issues. Nothing you can say can change that.
I am in the same boat. I can't see any judder on my C7 so for me, motion is pretty perfect.
Or is that a load of rubbish too?
He said it has perfect motion and it doesn't.

It doesn't matter what his experience is or if he sees it or not. It's there.

It's more accurate to say that to his eyes he can't see any motion problems.
 

Bl4ckGryph0n

Distinguished Member
He said it has perfect motion and it doesn't.

It doesn't matter what his experience is or if he sees it or not. It's there.

It's more accurate to say that to his eyes he can't see any motion problems.
Surely that goes without saying ;) is this just an argument for argument sake?

I also don’t have motion issues, nor burn in issues, any issue actually. Now to any person that means that there is nothing that that affects me or bothers me. Your mileage might vary.
 

Slugsy01

Distinguished Member
I don’t have any motion issues either.
 

staffy 2

Well-known Member
Hey Fx1 have you ever thought it’s your eyes that has the problem as that’s now 4 of us on this page saying we had no motion problems.Why would I speak rubbish I’m 100% truthfull i post colour graduation issues but that’s the only issue I’ve come across in 3 months.Ive no bands and no tint either and trust me if i Had motion issues I’d return it as football would unwatchable but the truth is I find the motion on my E7 100% Perfect I’ve never ever seen a millisecond of any judder in over 1000 hours of all broadcast quality tv shows and films.Could you have a bad panel with misaligned filter as honestly the motion is sublime it’s as smooth as butter.You sound like you sit watching your tv and scrutinise it for faults instead of just enjoying it.If you see the motion issues that you list then how can you keep the tv as no way could I watch a tv with all those motion issues and like I said I’d never have those motion issues anyway as the tv would be returned straight away.
I’d say it’s a specific weakness of Oled tech and your eyes I’d say you have a Sensitivity issue which I a real shame.
 

drdocmatt

Active Member
Almost every film shot in 24 fps has motion blur in each static frame. If the TV displays the frames one after the other entirely correctly there is motion blur. What technicians refer to as judder is usually a result of frame rate mismatch, where it winds up showing one frame for longer than others on a regular or irregular basis, and imho most image processing algorithms inevitably make interpolation errors from time to time and you get fragments of picture in the wrong place for half a frame. Trouble is this is more or less exactly what happens when you get a low bitrate source, and for this purpose low bitrate means anything not capable of rendering every pixel that's changed in each frame accurately. Which is essentially every video stream you will watch more or less... So be careful not to ascribe video stream flaws to your TV for a start..
Roll on BFI to fix sample and hold..
 
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Fx1

Active Member
Hey Fx1 have you ever thought it’s your eyes that has the problem as that’s now 4 of us on this page saying we had no motion problems.Why would I speak rubbish I’m 100% truthfull i post colour graduation issues but that’s the only issue I’ve come across in 3 months.Ive no bands and no tint either and trust me if i Had motion issues I’d return it as football would unwatchable but the truth is I find the motion on my E7 100% Perfect I’ve never ever seen a millisecond of any judder in over 1000 hours of all broadcast quality tv shows and films.Could you have a bad panel with misaligned filter as honestly the motion is sublime it’s as smooth as butter.You sound like you sit watching your tv and scrutinise it for faults instead of just enjoying it.If you see the motion issues that you list then how can you keep the tv as no way could I watch a tv with all those motion issues and like I said I’d never have those motion issues anyway as the tv would be returned straight away.
Do you really think it's someone's eyes over the technology that is known to have sample and hold judder.

You have a 55 which is smaller so it's likely less noticable. Also it would not show up on football as its 50hz broadcast and not 24hz movie. It also requires black pixels on a colour background.
 

staffy 2

Well-known Member
Well I must have the most amazing eyes then that smooth motion so that’s a bonus.
Do you still have Oled then Fx1 and can you see stutter on say a ZD9 lcd or a Sony A1.I would say that some people seem more sensitive to it than others.
 

Slugsy01

Distinguished Member
You are not looking hard enough then because it's there.

It's also not general motion either but a specific weakness of oled tech and 24hz

Shame you experience that but as I say, I have no issues and many people have the same experience as me.
 

arenaman

Moderator
My E7 has the best motion of any TV I've ever owned, more or less perfect, well to my eyes anyway which is all that matters
 

Tech_Guy

Active Member
Everything I watch with motion processing turned off either shows a lot or a little or no noise. But motion judder, blurring and flickering are there. I'm pretty sensitive to it. I'm watching Pandorum now which is a 2009 film on Amazon streaming. I can see motion judder, flicker and blur in this film too and noise scenes. It doesn't happen with every tv show or film though. I don't know why. I keep wondering if it's the general quality of the provider I.e Netflix or Amazon with low bitrate because they are supposedly HD movies which should look better. I love and hate my OLED and I miss the motion very much on my Plasma tv. But you have to live with it.
 
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arenaman

Moderator
Everything I watch with motion processing turned off either shows up noise, judder and blurring. When people or cars or things move vertically or horizontally or the camera pans you can see it's not smooth. There is judder and blurring. I see this because I'm sensitive to it. I'm watching Pandorum which is a 2009 film on Amazon streaming. It doesn't happen with every tv show or film though. I love and hate my OLED and I miss the motion very much on my Plasma tv.

To me the E7 beats the VT65 on motion no question, that was the one thing about the VT65, was never entirely happy with the motion but it was still better than the stuttering Samsungs
 

Tech_Guy

Active Member
To me the E7 beats the VT65 on motion no question, that was the one thing about the VT65, was never entirely happy with the motion but it was still better than the stuttering Samsungs

Mine is a 55B7. Why is it some content on Amazon and Netflix show judder, blurring and flickering and other movies don't?

I can't stand TrueMotion because with smooth or clear. Even user de judder and de blur don't really work.

It's like the picture messes up badly and the sample and hold technique doesn't know where to place the pixels so it guesses.

A good example is even when watching The Grand Tour with True Motion enabled. The road and grass breaks up badly in fast moving scenes or closer shots of cars plus blur is still there and motion is not always entirely smooth some scenes are good some are bad. It can be an unenjoyable experience.

The HD Pandorum movie though is not as bad as say The Grand Tour for motion, it's still there but thats in UHD.
 
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arenaman

Moderator
Mine is a 55B7. Why is it some content on Amazon and Netflix show judder, blurring and flickering and other movies don't?

I can't stand TrueMotion because with smooth or clear. Even user de judder and de blur don't really work. It's like the picture messes up badly and the sample and hold technique doesn't know where to place the pixels so it guesses.

I actually have TM set to clear, I see a bit of judder without it, maybe the perfect solution is in the finer controls but I don;t see the need right now as it's nearly perfect to me

I don't watch much Amazon, only TGT and on Netflix have watched both seasons of Stranger Things and a season of Dark, both looked great. I have SkyQ and the motion there is great, the football is faultless
 

Tech_Guy

Active Member
I actually have TM set to clear, I see a bit of judder without it, maybe the perfect solution is in the finer controls but I don;t see the need right now as it's nearly perfect to me

I don't watch much Amazon, only TGT and on Netflix have watched both seasons of Stranger Things and a season of Dark, both looked great. I have SkyQ and the motion there is great, the football is faultless

Guys are we supposed to keep Edge enhancer and real cinema on? And would you turn noise reduction off for HD movies?

Yeah I watched Stranger things and Dark and didn't experience any either. I wonder at which frame rate is most material on Amazon or Netflix original t.v. shows, movies filmed in?

I just started watching Contagion and there is minimal noise in this movie not as much as Pandorum. Quality of HD is Better but newer film. Still motion judder and blur though
 
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choddo

Well-known Member
You are not looking hard enough then because it's there.

It's also not general motion either but a specific weakness of oled tech and 24hz

I get the effect you're talking about on games at 30fps or more. High contrast dark mountains panning against bright skies for example. Don't really notice it in movies because the image is more tightly controlled by the creators while games can have crazy fast pans etc.

Always had it with every TV tech, possibly least on CRTs. plasmas did it with green phosphors in particular. LCDs with just about everything. Less so recently as they've improved a lot.
 

Fx1

Active Member
I actually have TM set to clear, I see a bit of judder without it, maybe the perfect solution is in the finer controls but I don;t see the need right now as it's nearly perfect to me

I don't watch much Amazon, only TGT and on Netflix have watched both seasons of Stranger Things and a season of Dark, both looked great. I have SkyQ and the motion there is great, the football is faultless
True motion is unusable.

The artifacts are horrendous especially faces and people's legs walking in the background. Complete breakdown of the original image.
 

arenaman

Moderator
True motion is unusable.

The artifacts are horrendous especially faces and people's legs walking in the background. Complete breakdown of the original image.

Unlucky, can you still return it?
 

Fx1

Active Member
Unlucky, can you still return it?
It's not a fault it's the way it works. It is the same on all of them I'd expect. This is why everyone turns picture processing off. The algorithm can't guess where the pixels are going to be and artifacts. This looks like digital blocks in the image. Not to mention overshoot which makes people's head have a funny wobble.

Why would you have that turned on?
 

arenaman

Moderator
It's not a fault it's the way it works. It is the same on all of them I'd expect. This is why everyone turns picture processing off. The algorithm can't guess where the pixels are going to be and artifacts. This looks like digital blocks in the image. Not to mention overshoot which makes people's head have a funny wobble.

Why would you have that turned on?

Each to their own, mine looks good, not perfect but miles better than having it switched off and I don't see anything like you describe, maybe the odd but of artefact now and again but not often.
 

Fx1

Active Member
Each to their own, mine looks good, not perfect but miles better than having it switched off and I don't see anything like you describe, maybe the odd but of artefact now and again but not often.
Yes it's certainly not consistent but it is there but the wobbly heads is always there. I hate that effect. I can't unsee it. It happens when the TV thinks the head is going to keep moving in the same direction but doesn't and over shoots.
 

goingoingong

Distinguished Member
It's not a fault it's the way it works. It is the same on all of them I'd expect. This is why everyone turns picture processing off. The algorithm can't guess where the pixels are going to be and artifacts. This looks like digital blocks in the image. Not to mention overshoot which makes people's head have a funny wobble.

Why would you have that turned on?
A scene near the end of Batman vs Superman when without it you have bendy wobbly sky scrapers as some planes fly past them. On: you have rock solid buildings and iffy planes. Off: everything is iffy.
 

wxman2003

Well-known Member
TM is a mess with anything higher than 0,0. First by using it, you are converting 24hz to 60hz if set to 0,0. Now if you set dejudder at 1 or higher, you are now telling the tv to do even more processing of that converted 24hz to 60hz. You really only have 2 choices. RC on, TM off for correct 5:5 cadence, or RC off, TM off (or 0,0) for 3:2 cadence. Anything else and you are telling the tv to "guess" as to how motion will be within that scene. For simple motion, all in one direction, it can usually guess right. It rarely gets it right when objects are moving in different directions on the screen and this creates artifacts. Coming from a Pioneer 5020 and Samsung F8500 plasma, my E6 5:5 cadence with RC on looks exactly as my Pioneer did with it 3:3 cadence and the Samsung's 5:5 cadence. Setting TM to 0,0 looks exactly as the plasmas did when they try to convert to 3:2. Judder looked just as "bad" on my plasmas. Luckily, over the years I got use to it, and don't even notice it anymore.
 

staffy 2

Well-known Member
True motion off but RC on and can’t see any of these problems and games on one x and PS4 Pro look awesome I feel blessed my eyes aren’t as sensitive to the motion that others see.
Infact the motion issues I read put me off Oled for years and then Trusted Reviews said oleds can’t handle interlaced signals like sky hd 1080i which I have they said it stutters but to my amazement Sky hd 1080i looks so good I’ve not upgraded to Sky Q as the picture is almost 4K like at times and 3 months in with over 1000 hours of sky hd viewing and not one stutter anywhere but I’m not doubting people who see it and can only say your eyes are sensitive to it and some people say football stutters they see 4 balls on some shots but my eyes don’t see any of this I’m amazed at how stutter free and smooth the motion is so why is it so bad for some yet others like me see no issues it’s a mystery.
 

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