OLED motion renders some content unwatchable

Drooch

Active Member
I watched the Saving Private Ryan UHD on my new 65” LG OLED and found the opening battle borderline unwatchable.

In 85% of cases OLED smashes plasma, but anything with shaky-cam, like the opening battle, is a traumatic experience. The motion limitations of OLED are serious and I don’t think the alarm has been sounded enough on this.

I removed any TruMotion, natch, and played with BFI, but whatever setting I used the motion was constantly jolting and jumping, unable to keep up with what was going on. I saw the film 3 times in the cinema and countless times on plasma and as crazy as the hand-held effect was and as low as Spielberg cranked the shutter speed it was always ‘pleasing’ to the eye.

On OLED it sent me into a migraine. I also had this with Mission Impossible III’s frenetic camera, and 1st person games are also pretty brutal on the eyes. The final battle in SPR was slightly less unbearable.

Has anyone else had this experience, and do we know if any upcoming TV tech is likely to fix this issue?

I’m glad I only spent $2,400 on what is an otherwise exceptional TV. I was toying with the vastly more expensive 77” and I’m relieved I held back. It’s crazy to me that the supposedly elite TV tech renders some content completely unwatchable.
 

Kapkirk

Active Member
I find the opening scene of that movie pretty traumatic on ANY TV, it is a very shaky and all over the place tbh but thankfully it only lasts a few minutes. I watched this movie only a couple of weeks ago on my HZ2000 but did not remember it being unwatchable in fact it's one of those movies that just makes me forget about the TV it's so engrossing.
Motion will always be better on your old plasma, I had a Panny plasma and never remembered any motion issues like I have with my new Panny OLED which is a shame really, not much we can do about it though until the next generation of faster processors comes along. However, the HDR, enhanced resolution and colour accuracy do help make up for the other shortcomings in OLED a little.
 

SyStemDeMoN

Well-known Member
There must be something amiss here as I have an aging c6 and the 4k UHD of this is just perfect,
I came from a panny plasma also and can't stand to watch a film on any LCD tv's.
I turn off all processing on my TV and still love my set.
Just to be sure, have you tried it in film maker mode ?
 

Kapkirk

Active Member
I find the opening scene of that movie pretty traumatic on ANY TV, it is a very shaky and all over the place tbh but thankfully it only lasts a few minutes. I watched this movie only a couple of weeks ago on my HZ2000 but did not remember it being unwatchable in fact it's one of those movies that just makes me forget about the TV it's so engrossing.
Motion will always be better on your old plasma, I had a Panny plasma and never remembered any motion issues like I have with my new Panny OLED which is a shame really, not much we can do about it though until the next generation of faster processors comes along. However, the HDR, enhanced resolution and colour accuracy do help make up for the other shortcomings in OLED a little.
There must be something amiss here as I have an aging c6 and the 4k UHD of this is just perfect,
I came from a panny plasma also and can't stand to watch a film on any LCD tv's.
I turn off all processing on my TV and still love my set.
Just to be sure, have you tried it in film maker mode ?
No I watch all my movies streamed from Netfix and use the cinema preset as I seem to prefer movies in that pre-set, I use Luminance on about 48 contrast 88 and BFI OFF, IFC on low. Filmmaker is what most people recommend on the Panny OLED but I find the cinamea setting more natural with more detail in the blacks.
 

WheelUp

Active Member
I had this problem on my B6. Anything with contrasting foreground and background colours with fast pans was flickery and really unpleasant on the eyes. Anything with just fast panning was still bad, but not as bad. Obviously no changes to settings (unless you put every up to full whack, full on artificial smoothness) mad any difference. I seem to remember lots of people agreeing, and just as many saying they had no problem. Conclusion: some people have eyes that are susceptible to OLED motion issues, some people do not.
 

fluxedman

Well-known Member
Didn't notice any issues myself with Filmmaker mode and 48inch CX and UHD version of shaving ryans privates.

I noticed OLED motion was terrible when I was first running the LG CX for the first 3 weeks though, especially with sports (boxing and UFC) so people getting knocked out in a split second the motion was almost faulty looking but few weeks later it was smooth as butter, they do say OLEDS require a good few weeks or 200-300hrs of use to mellow out.

I think with the size of screen it maybe is more noticeable. I would say if its new wait a few weeks and also try Filmmaker mode since it switches all the junk processing off giving you what film makers wanted you to see if anything its worth a shot.
 

5to1

Well-known Member
IConclusion: some people have eyes that are susceptible to OLED motion issues, some people do not.

Not just OLED. Some people have issues with Plasma. Others with LCD. Some with pretty much anything. All displays after all are only mimicking the motion we see when we look out of the window.

Another important factor is conditioning. Step from one display type to another and you’re probably more likely to pickup issues. Even stepping up FOV significantly but sticking to the same display type may result in motion related issues.

I know it’s easy to say when you’re not particularly afflicted with this issue, but it’s best to try and ignore such issues. The more you fixate on it, the worse it will get. IMO given some time, most people will learn to ignore them.
 

Kapkirk

Active Member
Not just OLED. Some people have issues with Plasma. Others with LCD. Some with pretty much anything. All displays after all are only mimicking the motion we see when we look out of the window.

Another important factor is conditioning. Step from one display type to another and you’re probably more likely to pickup issues. Even stepping up FOV significantly but sticking to the same display type may result in motion related issues.

I know it’s easy to say when you’re not particularly afflicted with this issue, but it’s best to try and ignore such issues. The more you fixate on it, the worse it will get. IMO given some time, most people will learn to ignore them.
I think you hit the nail on the head 5to1, once we notice it we tend to FIXATE on that problem and keep looking for it, I'm guilty of this in the past and was so fixated on it I missed half the movie I was trying to watch, fortunately motion issues were never a problem with my Plasma but I did start to see it when I bought my Pany OLED, I think the larger the screen the worse it seems. I was round my son's this evening watching his Sony A8 and I actually thought the motion was worse on the Sony than my HZ2000 so I guess I should think myself lucky.
 

WheelUp

Active Member
Not just OLED. Some people have issues with Plasma. Others with LCD. Some with pretty much anything. All displays after all are only mimicking the motion we see when we look out of the window.

Another important factor is conditioning. Step from one display type to another and you’re probably more likely to pickup issues. Even stepping up FOV significantly but sticking to the same display type may result in motion related issues.

I know it’s easy to say when you’re not particularly afflicted with this issue, but it’s best to try and ignore such issues. The more you fixate on it, the worse it will get. IMO given some time, most people will learn to ignore them.
Yeah, all valid points. And I did go from plasma to OLED, so that was a massive change for me. I did more or less get used to it in the end, but every now and then I watched something that contained a fast pan with contrasting foreground/background which reminded me of the problem.
 

5to1

Well-known Member
Yeah, all valid points. And I did go from plasma to OLED, so that was a massive change for me. I did more or less get used to it in the end, but every now and then I watched something that contained a fast pan with contrasting foreground/background which reminded me of the problem.

That’s good you’re getting used to it and getting on with enjoying the positives.

Sometimes people fixate on a small step backwards in one area and completely miss the massive leap forward in the other areas.

Ive now got a 77AG9 which we’re really enjoying. Grabbed it at £2400 a few months ago. A few years ago I’d never have imagined I’d be watching movies in my living room on a 77” emissive display that can achieve True blacks right next to vibrant fully lit pixels.

Yes some low bit rate broadcast stuff looks crap, occasionally I have to choose between crushing detail near black or exposing some nasty artefacts. But 99% of the time, my critical viewing (films or series in the evening) is better then I could have dreamed about a few years ago.
 

Cryfreman

Active Member
All I know is that if a new (dreaming) Panny 4K HDR plasma came out my oled would be gone in an instant.
Really sensitive with motion and the OLED’s are just terrible at it, some are lucky and don’t really see it… or lie to themselves a touch so they don’t feel to bad about their new purchase 😁
 

5to1

Well-known Member
All I know is that if a new (dreaming) Panny 4K HDR plasma came out my oled would be gone in an instant.
Really sensitive with motion and the OLED’s are just terrible at it, some are lucky and don’t really see it… or lie to themselves a touch so they don’t feel to bad about their new purchase 😁

I didn’t really “see” it with LCD either 😮 (nor the issues people moaned about with Plasma).

If you only read forums you’d probably think I was abnormal. But I suspect most people don’t “see” it either.
 

Cryfreman

Active Member
I didn’t really “see” it with LCD either 😮 (nor the issues people moaned about with Plasma).

If you only read forums you’d probably think I was abnormal. But I suspect most people don’t “see” it either.

Yeah motion is a funny thing. I often go around a mates for a curry night and he chucks Netflix on using his PS4, funny thing is he has my old plasma and even that can’t hide that stutter mess of no frame matching 😁
Tried to get him to use the inbuilt app but obviously a PS4 is ‘better’ 😂
 

5to1

Well-known Member
Yeah motion is a funny thing. I often go around a mates for a curry night and he chucks Netflix on using his PS4, funny thing is he has my old plasma and even that can’t hide that stutter mess of no frame matching 😁
Tried to get him to use the inbuilt app but obviously a PS4 is ‘better’ 😂

The question is who’s the one that’s better off?

Unlike other aspects of the image, in all cases TVs are ultimately trying to “trick” us into believing we’re seeing motion.

If I really focus my mind on analysing the image I can undo that trick with every type of TV. But im just robbing myself of the ultimate point in watching TV.

I appreciate everyone’s different and some people have real trouble with Sample and hold. Just as some have issues with phosphour trails, flicker, etc. But I think most can and would be well served to just accept and learn to ignore the foibles of whichever approach their TV uses.
 

Drooch

Active Member
Unlike other aspects of the image, in all cases TVs are ultimately trying to “trick” us into believing we’re seeing motion.

If I really focus my mind on analysing the image I can undo that trick with every type of TV. But im just robbing myself of the ultimate point in watching TV.

I appreciate everyone’s different and some people have real trouble with Sample and hold. Just as some have issues with phosphour trails, flicker, etc. But I think most can and would be well served to just accept and learn to ignore the foibles of whichever approach their TV uses.

Well we don’t have much choice… which is the problem. The market should be innovating new technologies or techniques to correct the problem and create TV’s with equal or better motion resolution to OLED.

Consumers shouldn’t have to be settling for less.
 
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GAmbrose

Well-known Member
Well we do


Well we don’t have much choice… which is the problem. The market should be innovating new technologies or techniques to correct the problem and create TV’s with equal or better motion resolution to OLED.

Consumers shouldn’t have to be settling for less.

Micro LED is coming within the next few years.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
The only display I imagine reaching perfection these day and still looking modern would be a JVC N5/N7 in a totally light controlled blacked out room.

Otherwise LCDs are going to have a bad time with dark scenes and blooming and halo.
OLEDs have the motion limitation.
Projector wise you still have the lumen issue but DTM really does alleviate a lot of that and a treated room helps perception of highly bright scenes feel bright.

I just think at this point in time we need to accept the flaws of each display technology and embrace them.

I fancy returning to OLED for that deep deep contrasty image; but with my experience I now know I'll need to compromise on:
1. Uniformity
2. Motion
3. Screen size

Sadly just part and parcel of each technology, regardless of the people with 'perfect sets' tell people who don't see the obvious technical limitations with their displays.
 

5to1

Well-known Member
Well we don’t have much choice… which is the problem. The market should be innovating new technologies or techniques to correct the problem and create TV’s with equal or better motion resolution to OLED.
Well you do have a lot of choice actually. A lot more then our parents who could take CRT or lump it.

You could try the various manufacturers BFI approaches. You could use interpolation if SOE irks you less the Sample and Hold based retinal retention. Or If sample & hold motion is truly a show stopper, grab a second hand Plasma.

I’m not trying to take the P, I’m being completely serious. For those that really hate sample and hold there are options, you don’t have to blight your viewing experience.

Consumers shouldn’t have to be settling for less.

Of course they do, or we’d never buy another TV again :) There’s a balance between what’s technically achievable, the cost of delivering that to the mass market and the benefit (demand) in the market. Clearly one or more of those can’t be met right now. Perhaps the first two or perhaps they don’t feel enough people care enough to make it worth their while.

But things change, OLED came along, LG invested and pushed true blacks. Samsung etc had to respond with better FALDs. Colour Gamut is being pushed now. The battle will probably move to motion at some point (but there are issues with all the pre-existing techniques).
 

UpgradingAgain

Active Member
This forum probably represents a very small fraction of TV buyers. I’m sure the World at large is enjoying the current crop of TVs without ever wondering about some of the stuff people remain focussed on here.
 

HMHB

Distinguished Member
I’m interested in this topic because I’m still using my Panasonic plasma every day and don’t want to change to something that annoys me when the time comes.

I do wonder when I read about things needing ‘running in time’ if it’s just the user getting used to it rather than the electrical item getting better? People say it a lot about headphones and I don’t believe that they actually get better but I could well be wrong :)
 

50W

Active Member
Just when you think you get your head around OLED and all the burn-in concerns and then someone comes up with this! I don't think I had even read anything about OLED and motion concerns before this.
Or is this more of an issue for those that are susceptible to this type of thing?
 

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