OLED motion - I think it has a way to go

Michael7877

Active Member
I’ve seen the motion processing on a Sony OLED with problem material. Sadly it’s the same and there, otherwise I would have bought one.

Its an OLED issue, albeit I think slightly less worse on Sony and Panasonic

The fast response time could be slowed with hardware in the future. Maybe they'll do it that way for the best of both worlds.

When I compared LG with Sony at the store when I was buying, for motion I saw an obvious difference. I always considered myself sensitive to motion problems, and I really don't see a problem with anime on my TV.

If you put something on a usb stick and took it to a store, you could see again the difference, maybe it's bigger than you remember. Doesn't hurt to look again, you can only benefit
 

Gremlins

Active Member
I was going to make a thread on this, nice to see it already exists.

Do you guys think max black frame insertion will become usable? Because reviewers like HDTVtest says on every OLED review it is too fatiguing go beyond medium.

If this is solved would the motion be equivalent of Plasma motion? Or is the 600hz plasma TVs completely unachievable by modern TVs?

EDIT: I find it interesting how many in this thread claim projector motion is equal to plasma motion. I thought the ceiling without interpolation for projectors were 650 lines, and often with inherent 3/2 judder? Challenges of 24fps for domestic projectors
 

Michael7877

Active Member
I was going to make a thread on this, nice to see it already exists.

Do you guys think max black frame insertion will become usable? Because reviewers like HDTVtest says on every OLED review it is too fatiguing go beyond medium.

If this is solved would the motion be equivalent of Plasma motion? Or is the 600hz plasma TVs completely unachievable by modern TVs?

Max is fatiguing in what way? The eyes?

The longer the black frame lasts, the brighter the image has to be to keep the same perceived brightness level. OLED in the LG WRGB format probably wont increase much in peak brightness ability, so the brightness loss will remain about the same for max BFI
 

Gremlins

Active Member
HDTVtest quote:

Sony A8 - "Clearness Max is pure black frame insertion and introduces too much flicker and brightness drop to be watched comfortably for long periods."

He seems to say this on every OLED review for max setting.
 

Michael7877

Active Member
HDTVtest quote:

Sony A8 - "Clearness Max is pure black frame insertion and introduces too much flicker and brightness drop to be watched comfortably for long periods."

He seems to say this on every OLED review for max setting.

Ah, he must mean comfort from brightness drop. Doesn't the CX have 120hz BFI? I don't use bfi on my A8 because it's 60hz and flickers too much (like CRT). But when I had my CRT at 120hz, no flicker at all. All that remains is the brightness drop. It's too bad they don't enable higher brightness BFI, especially with SDR. With HDR I understand, it'd require 1600 nits 50% of the time instead of 800, which is obviously too high. But even if they did 600 nits bfi for 300 peak in SDR, that shouldn't affect panel life too much... or maybe it would, because why else wouldn't they?
 

TokenUser

Active Member
I have a projector and OLED. I agree that the motion on the projector is better but the downside is the projector is too noisy. For me this is a major factor why our family screen is the OLED and the projector is relegated to the spare room as the second screen. Now. If someone invented a silent projector...
 

Tim2049

Well-known Member
So my LG OLED GX bit the dust today. God knows why.. one dead pixel then dead.

anyway, not big deal. Just get a new TV in from JL tommorow. But in the meantime I wanted to watch this anime from the 90s. I'd watched a few episodes on my OLED and it looked awful as you'd expect it to.

Played it on my HW40ES (sony projector) and all I can say is some flaws of an OLED are very obvious..
1. DSE/graininess/texture on the low saturated colours and poor content; I see this and it moves with the screen. Whether LG or Sony or Panasonic.. it seems to be a panel/technology issue. Things on animated content especially just don't look CLEAN in movement
2. Motion - put simply, the motion on OLEDs due to the instantenous pixel response time does not hold a candle to this £500 old projector, similar to probably how it doesn't to a plasma TV also.

I do wonder how if ever we will bridge this gap with OLED technology. Motion interpolation can only do so much. I have no motion interpolation on this PJ activated.. just natgive 24fps playback and its smooth.


Now OLEDs have a place in the tech world IMO.. and a place which make it hard to be usurped and its in:
1. HDR & Dolby vision due to pixel level control of colour and specular highlight detail retrieval
2. Gaming - the instant pixel response time which causes issues with 24hz content and white panning shots is the saving grace which makes video games so god damn amazing on an OLED panel


For home cinema though... I'm honestly now just not sure which is the right way to go. I think moving forwards for those that can afford it both money wise and space wise, surely something like a JVC NX5/7/9 is the pinnacle of home theatre (due to the high contrast panel) whilst a device like an Epson 9400 probably trades blows for film & TV dependant on what size of a screen you can create with it versus the OLED.

Any thoughts or similar experiences?

With just a little bit of tweaking, motion on OLED can be 'flawless' from my experience.
 

Tim2049

Well-known Member
which OLED do you have? please watch 1917. i can timestamp you scenes,

Not quite sure why my comment caused such hilarity. A little insecure on the subject perhaps?

I have a Sony AF8. Previously owned two Panasonic plasmas. As I maintain, with a little tweaking, motion is as good as I could ever want it. Perfectly smooth panning shots etc. You can mock all you like, I put more faith in my eyes than your hyperbole...
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Not quite sure why my comment caused such hilarity. A little insecure on the subject perhaps?

I have a Sony AF8. Previously owned two Panasonic plasmas. As I maintain, with a little tweaking, motion is as good as I could ever want it. Perfectly smooth panning shots etc. You can mock all you like, I put more faith in my eyes than your hyperbole...


Nothing insecure. I have the money to go out and buy a Sony AG9 or LG OLED GX or a Panasonic HZ2000 (sadly not available in 77''). The only display I can't afford is the 88'' LG OLED 😂 😂 . And I'm in the perfect position as my GX has just broken within the 28 day return period so is going back or getting swapped... I can swap it for a Sony or LG.

I just found it funny because OLEDs have an inherent issue with 24hz content due to the instant pixel response time. This is complained about by Sony and LG owners a like but to different degrees. To say its perfect, I think is a bit of a stretch, but maybe you have nailed the settings or maybe you don't notice the issues.

If you have 1917, I can ask you to display some scenes and see what its like. You might be right but I'll be very surprised. If you are right, then I might just venture to the Sony AG9 instead. :)
 

Tim2049

Well-known Member
Nothing insecure. I have the money to go out and buy a Sony AG9 or LG OLED GX or a Panasonic HZ2000 (sadly not available in 77''). The only display I can't afford is the 88'' LG OLED 😂 😂 . And I'm in the perfect position as my GX has just broken within the 28 day return period so is going back or getting swapped... I can swap it for a Sony or LG.

I just found it funny because OLEDs have an inherent issue with 24hz content due to the instant pixel response time. This is complained about by Sony and LG owners a like but to different degrees. To say its perfect, I think is a bit of a stretch, but maybe you have nailed the settings or maybe you don't notice the issues.

If you have 1917, I can ask you to display some scenes and see what its like. You might be right but I'll be very surprised. If you are right, then I might just venture to the Sony AG9 instead. :)

Well I'm far from a techie, but I always assumed the inherent 24hz issue was only a thing without tinkering with the processing..(?) I could be wrong of course.

Motion was my biggest hesitation before upgrading from plasma. I'd always heard that Sony was the best option with this in mind. I spent ages playing around with the settings and have found what I genuinely believe to be the perfect balance. If there was any stutter whatsoever it'd drive me absolutely nuts...

I don't have 1917 unfortunately, although I see it's on Amazon prime, so I'd be more than happy to check out any 'difficult' scenes, absolutely. If there's an issue I'll be very honest about it too.

As an aside, I'd always opt for Sony. The only thing I regret is buying mine at launch so it cost a fortune. Seeing the 65" CX for around a grand less than I paid does sting a little (!) Still, I couldn't be happier with how its performed over this last 2.5 years. Sorry, I digress...
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Well I'm far from a techie, but I always assumed the inherent 24hz issue was only a thing without tinkering with the processing..(?) I could be wrong of course.

Motion was my biggest hesitation before upgrading from plasma. I'd always heard that Sony was the best option with this in mind. I spent ages playing around with the settings and have found what I genuinely believe to be the perfect balance. If there was any stutter whatsoever it'd drive me absolutely nuts...

I don't have 1917 unfortunately, although I see it's on Amazon prime, so I'd be more than happy to check out any 'difficult' scenes, absolutely. If there's an issue I'll be very honest about it too.

As an aside, I'd always opt for Sony. The only thing I regret is buying mine at launch so it cost a fortune. Seeing the 65" CX for around a grand less than I paid does sting a little (!) Still, I couldn't be happier with how its performed over this last 2.5 years. Sorry, I digress...

Money isn't a problem. 77 GX at launch was £6000, I paid £5000. Current 77 AG9 is £3600. Its much cheaper so I'd be saving money. And the £1500 can go towards a new projector (or a new room refurb). However the CX is a similar price at £3400 and has HDMI 2.1 gaming features so if the Sony doesn't solve the motion issues, it seems like a much better purchase. Especially as VRR has actually made a world of difference to my gaming.

1917, 1 hour 2 minutes 15 seconds (approx)
The guy comes out of the vehicle, says buy to commander then there is a difficult panning sequences where it pans around to some trees and a messed up building.

If you could check that out, would be awesome. :) I think this is a scene they made thinking "lets stress every single OLED Panel to the max hehehe". Without motion interpolation, the scene should be an absolute mess so would be interesting to see it with and without.


I honestly think for the odd phase I have a weird motion sensitive issue, I'm just better off buying a good projector with good motion handling (JVC or Sony.. or an Epson 9400 which has slight compromises in motion but GIGANTIC value for the most part).

This year (2020) is just such a crap year to buy tech as everything from projectors to TVs seems to be a big gimped and will likely be refined next year.

PS Thank you and sorry if I am coming across as a dick.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Well I'm far from a techie, but I always assumed the inherent 24hz issue was only a thing without tinkering with the processing..(?) I could be wrong of course.

Motion was my biggest hesitation before upgrading from plasma. I'd always heard that Sony was the best option with this in mind. I spent ages playing around with the settings and have found what I genuinely believe to be the perfect balance. If there was any stutter whatsoever it'd drive me absolutely nuts...

I don't have 1917 unfortunately, although I see it's on Amazon prime, so I'd be more than happy to check out any 'difficult' scenes, absolutely. If there's an issue I'll be very honest about it too.

As an aside, I'd always opt for Sony. The only thing I regret is buying mine at launch so it cost a fortune. Seeing the 65" CX for around a grand less than I paid does sting a little (!) Still, I couldn't be happier with how its performed over this last 2.5 years. Sorry, I digress...


24hz issue is due to the instant pixel response time of an OLED panel. Basically an OLED panel instantly refreshes and responds to changes. This is perfect for 60hz content and above but it sucks for 24hz.

This has always been the case, in that 24hz is problematic but LCD panels, due to their slow pixel response time which isn't instant, actually had a very helpful knock-on effect of a very slight but subtle motion blur which made panning shots look a lot more natural; reducing visible judder from the pixels refreshing.

Motion processing comes into play to FIX the issue on the OLED panels. So, motion interpolation on LCDs was used because.. people like smoother motion. Motion interpolation on OLEDs is moreso used to FIX the motion issues for 24hz content due to the instant pixel response time.


Instant pixel response time has its BIG pros and BIG cons.
1. Cons = 24hz content
2. Pros = PHENOMENAL for gaming with a buttery smooth responsiveness
3. Pros = PHENOMENAL for 60hz content for the same as above.

So the motion ISSUES on an OLED panel are down to the inherent flaws in the technology (which is why i did the laugh emoji).

The motion SOLUTIONS on an OLED panel are down to the motion processing options on Sony, LG, Panasonic. The issue is that motion processing, no matter what anyone says, does affect the motion and directors intent so some people are obviously against it. In my experience Sony & Panasonic are best at avoiding the SOE.
 

Tim2049

Well-known Member
Money isn't a problem. 77 GX at launch was £6000, I paid £5000. Current 77 AG9 is £3600. Its much cheaper so I'd be saving money. And the £1500 can go towards a new projector (or a new room refurb). However the CX is a similar price at £3400 and has HDMI 2.1 gaming features so if the Sony doesn't solve the motion issues, it seems like a much better purchase. Especially as VRR has actually made a world of difference to my gaming.

1917, 1 hour 2 minutes 15 seconds (approx)
The guy comes out of the vehicle, says buy to commander then there is a difficult panning sequences where it pans around to some trees and a messed up building.

If you could check that out, would be awesome. :) I think this is a scene they made thinking "lets stress every single OLED Panel to the max hehehe". Without motion interpolation, the scene should be an absolute mess so would be interesting to see it with and without.


I honestly think for the odd phase I have a weird motion sensitive issue, I'm just better off buying a good projector with good motion handling (JVC or Sony.. or an Epson 9400 which has slight compromises in motion but GIGANTIC value for the most part).

This year (2020) is just such a crap year to buy tech as everything from projectors to TVs seems to be a big gimped and will likely be refined next year.

PS Thank you and sorry if I am coming across as a dick.

Just checked (working from home has a lot of benefits!). You're right, it definitely seemed to stress the tv out a little. Not significantly, but the trees and background buildings had a very slight 'wobble'. I never noticed that on the 4k blu ray version I rented, but I'd be an arrogant sod to claim that it definitely wasn't there either.

That's geneuinely one of the only times I've spotted 'stress' and I'd still never deem that enough to put me off OLED, or re-evaluate their motion abilities. All tech has slight shortcomings of course. If you went with the projector you'd possibly have similar frustrations with black levels..(?)

Anyway, that was a good exercise and you're absolutely right about that scene. Would my girlfriend have noticed the issue? Almost certainly not, but it was there, you're quite right.

Ps. Hey all good! I appreciate your time on this. Not dickish at all 😉
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Just checked (working from home has a lot of benefits!). You're right, it definitely seemed to stress the tv out a little. Not significantly, but the trees and background buildings had a very slight 'wobble'. I never noticed that on the 4k blu ray version I rented, but I'd be an arrogant sod to claim that it definitely wasn't there either.

That's geneuinely one of the only times I've spotted 'stress' and I'd still never deem that enough to put me off OLED, or re-evaluate their motion abilities. All tech has slight shortcomings of course. If you went with the projector you'd possibly have similar frustrations with black levels..(?)

Anyway, that was a good exercise and you're absolutely right about that scene. Would my girlfriend have noticed the issue? Almost certainly not, but it was there, you're quite right.

Ps. Hey all good! I appreciate your time on this. Not dickish at all 😉

Cheers mate, if you get a chance could you video it for us and I'll compare it to the LG with the settings which I found mitigated it the best. Don't worry if not as I understand you're probably busy.

I found ont he LG de judder to 3 reduced it fairly well, at 4 it was NEARLY a non-issue, at 5 is was PERFECT but the dreaded soap opera effect/force was strong. At 4 the SOE was STILL creeping in but it just felt less filmic, more modern.. I'm going to guess the Sony will feel like 4 in terms of reduction of artifacts but still feel more filmic.

Which settings were you using? did you use it with motion interpolation on and off? Off it should look like a total mess as its just the LG Panel doing the job.. and it doesn't do a good one.

Honestly I'd love to have both displays side by side (but I don't have the space) because as much as I do love Sony's motion processing (I have a sony PJ I'm using to type to you now), I just don't think Sony's motion processing completely removes the motion flaws which a lot of us OLED owners don't like. I think once we tune the LG and Sony with both motion processing on, its MARGINALLY in favour of Sony who will have a more natural flow and motion BUT the motion issues will still be there. This is not to discount Sony's motion. Sony's motion IS SUPERIOR to LG's. BUT I'm not convinced at all that Sony's motion processing mitigates the inherent flaws in OLED motion.. (if that makes sense).

Yeah when you watched in on Bluray you were probably too busy enjoying the film. its what I am trying to do more and more rather than point holes in my display devices. 😂 😂

If you could video the judder/artifacts for me with it off and on.. it would be really good but no worries if not and of course no rush at all! I don't have a GX to even compare as this piece of crap is broken. 😂😂

And FYI the judder is not there at all on my Sony PJ.. so its an OLED issue.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Also I love when 2 enthusiasts can have an honest open discussion and come to a fair conclusion on something with egos cast aside. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

you could have easily lied there and said its perfect. 😂😂😂 to which I would have then bought a Sony AG9.. then come back on this thread crying that I see issues with that scene. then got a replacement cos I would think mine is faulty etc. etc.
 

Tim2049

Well-known Member
Cheers mate, if you get a chance could you video it for us and I'll compare it to the LG with the settings which I found mitigated it the best. Don't worry if not as I understand you're probably busy.

I found ont he LG de judder to 3 reduced it fairly well, at 4 it was NEARLY a non-issue, at 5 is was PERFECT but the dreaded soap opera effect/force was strong. At 4 the SOE was STILL creeping in but it just felt less filmic, more modern.. I'm going to guess the Sony will feel like 4 in terms of reduction of artifacts but still feel more filmic.

Which settings were you using? did you use it with motion interpolation on and off? Off it should look like a total mess as its just the LG Panel doing the job.. and it doesn't do a good one.

Honestly I'd love to have both displays side by side (but I don't have the space) because as much as I do love Sony's motion processing (I have a sony PJ I'm using to type to you now), I just don't think Sony's motion processing completely removes the motion flaws which a lot of us OLED owners don't like. I think once we tune the LG and Sony with both motion processing on, its MARGINALLY in favour of Sony who will have a more natural flow and motion BUT the motion issues will still be there. This is not to discount Sony's motion. Sony's motion IS SUPERIOR to LG's. BUT I'm not convinced at all that Sony's motion processing mitigates the inherent flaws in OLED motion.. (if that makes sense).

Yeah when you watched in on Bluray you were probably too busy enjoying the film. its what I am trying to do more and more rather than point holes in my display devices. 😂 😂

If you could video the judder/artifacts for me with it off and on.. it would be really good but no worries if not and of course no rush at all! I don't have a GX to even compare as this piece of crap is broken. 😂😂

And FYI the judder is not there at all on my Sony PJ.. so its an OLED issue.

I'll certainly try and film It, sure thing. I didn't think we could upload video here..(?) I'll give it a shot though (this is where my naff tech skills come to the fore!)

I'm glad about the honesty too. People can often be too defensive about their big purchases, I see it all the time. About a year ago I was tempted to upgrade to the AF9, but after spending some time with one I didn't really spot any differences to mine. HDR had a bit more of a kick, but it was incremental to say the least. Anyway, I'm digressing again, sorry. Point is, you'll find people out there saying the two sets are 'night and day'. It's misleading to say the least, but commonplace in AV circles i find.

My settings are probably blasphemy to many, so I'd take my preferences with a slab of salt, let alone a pinch. For example, I use Cinema Pro for gaming. After hours of tweaking between modes, I find the image/smoothness noticeably better than Game mode.

For apps (Prime/Netflix etc) I use Cinema Pro. Motionflow set to 'Custom', Smoothness set to '3' (a happy medium I've found) and Film Mode set 'Medium'.

For blu ray/4k I'm set to 'Custom' picture mode and utilise the same motion settings as above.

As an aside, my 'torture test' on my plasmas was the opening shot from The Dark Knight. Slow wideshot of the city and one skyscraper in particular used to go haywire. Its vertical lines would dance all over the place. That was the very first scene I tried on the OLED and it was absolutely spot on. Not sure if that comes under 'motion', but it certainly did to me..(!)

Anyway, cheers, I'll work on uploading a brief video of 1917 if I can.
 
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kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
I'll certainly try and film It, sure thing. I didn't think we could upload video here..(?) I'll give it a shot though (this is where my naff tech skills come to the fore!)

I'm glad about the honesty too. People can often be too defensive about their big purchases, I see it all the time. About a year ago I was tempted to upgrade to the AF9, but after spending some time with one I didn't really spot any differences to mine. HDR had a bit more of a kick, but it was incremental to say the least. Anyway, I'm digressing again, sorry. Point is, you'll find people out there saying the two sets are 'night and day'. It's misleading to say the least, but commonplace in AV circles i find.

My settings are probably blasphemy to many, so I'd take my preferences with a slab of salt, let alone a pinch. For example, I use Cinema Pro for gaming. After hours of thinking between modes, I find the image/smoothness noticeably better than Game mode.

For apps (Prime/Netflix etc) I use Cinema Pro. Motionflow set to 'Custom', Smoothness set to '3' (a happy medium I've found) and Film Mode set 'Medium'.

For blu ray/4k I'm set to 'Custom' picture mode and utilise the same motion settings as above.

As an aside, my 'torture test' on my plasmas was the opening shot from The Dark Knight. Slow wideshot of the city and one skyscraper in particular used to go haywire. Its vertical lines would dance all ove rather place. That was the very first scene I tried on the OLED and it was absolutely spot on. Not sure if that comes under 'motion', but it certainly did to me..(!)

Anyway, cheers, I'll work on uploading a brief video of 1917 if I can.

Thank you mate, that would be great.

I would not upgrade from your Sony unless you game. There are no tangible upgrades from when you bought your Sony to now panel-technology wise apart from BFI which I think isn't the biggest deal at all given it doesn't solve the 24hz issues.

The only reason to upgrade is HDMI 2.1 and VRR which are REAL upgrades. I played TW3 and RDR2 with VRR and it felt like 60.. disabled them and it was a juddery mess so its really good.

I have a lot of OLED torture tests.. from showing the banding to showing the judder. The important thing is they don't detract from the experience but they're simply not perfect panels.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
OLEDs have 3 issues for me which I think are simply not solvable:

1. Motion - as we've discussed.
2. Banding 5% grey - known issue, comes out in weird scenes too like the colour black and blue.
3. DSE 'dirty whites' - you'll likely never notice this unless you watch Anime or low bitrate block stuff but there is a 'texture' to the OLED panel which comes out on the bright colour white. I've tested it on a couple of OLEDs (not all from this year production model wise) and they have it.
4. HDR limitations full field brightness

Overall its FAR FAR FAR better than LCD but its still not perfect at all.

I think perfection for home theatre is probably a projector in a treated room which will have better image consistent, no banding, no DSE apart from the texture of the projector screen which will rarely come up in content and the motion will be perfect compared to what we exhibit on OLEDs and that perfect will stretch even farther if you have a Sony or JVC PJ.

This is without even taking into account a small projector screen (say 95-100'') is still GIGANTIC compared to a 77'' OLED.

Now OLEDs do have HDR performance but I have to say that the HDR impact of my OLED due to the limited full field brightness is nothing which shocks or surprises me. Yes speculr highlight detail is BEAUTIFUL but good tone mapping on a high contrast PJ will get you 95% there.

Also our human iris dilates and constrcts based on the APL of a film. I have found myself getting blinded by my old Epson 9400 more than my LG OLED 77'' CX/GX which I've had.

I really do love OLEDs because for the first time I feel like I have a reference monitor in my house but... there is something missing at times IMO.
 

Unopinionated

Active Member
OLEDs have 3 issues for me which I think are simply not solvable:

1. Motion - as we've discussed.
2. Banding 5% grey - known issue, comes out in weird scenes too like the colour black and blue.
3. DSE 'dirty whites' - you'll likely never notice this unless you watch Anime or low bitrate block stuff but there is a 'texture' to the OLED panel which comes out on the bright colour white. I've tested it on a couple of OLEDs (not all from this year production model wise) and they have it.
4. HDR limitations full field brightness

Overall its FAR FAR FAR better than LCD but its still not perfect at all.

I think perfection for home theatre is probably a projector in a treated room which will have better image consistent, no banding, no DSE apart from the texture of the projector screen which will rarely come up in content and the motion will be perfect compared to what we exhibit on OLEDs and that perfect will stretch even farther if you have a Sony or JVC PJ.

This is without even taking into account a small projector screen (say 95-100'') is still GIGANTIC compared to a 77'' OLED.

Now OLEDs do have HDR performance but I have to say that the HDR impact of my OLED due to the limited full field brightness is nothing which shocks or surprises me. Yes speculr highlight detail is BEAUTIFUL but good tone mapping on a high contrast PJ will get you 95% there.

Also our human iris dilates and constrcts based on the APL of a film. I have found myself getting blinded by my old Epson 9400 more than my LG OLED 77'' CX/GX which I've had.

I really do love OLEDs because for the first time I feel like I have a reference monitor in my house but... there is something missing at times IMO.
Would you rather watch an HDR movie on your OLED or your LCD? When you take all the pros and cons into consideration what is most pleasing for watching an HDR movie?
 
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kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Would you rather watch an HDR movie on your OLED or your LCD?

OLED by far.

HDR stretches LCDs too far. By running the backlight at 100, you can see the backlight in some challenging scenes, you can see halo, blooming, the local dimming zone has to be aggressive to supresss blooming resulting in loss of shadow detail and the same happens at the opposite end of the spectrum with the lack of highlight detail due to zonal control.

If you took away OLED's pixel level control of colour and brightness, then LCDs I feel would really give them a run for its money but it the intricate control at a pixel level allows for OLED's to paint a reference looking image in HDR. LCDs on the otherhand due to zonal control, just end up IMO looking sloppy.

The Full field brightness impact of an LCD is great and better than an OLED but I don't find myself astounded by it and in certain circumstances it can be too much. I don't like being blinded in a dark room by 1000+ nits full field.

I think SDR wise, its a far more interesting battle where LCDs can hold their own a little more fairly.

Projector wise, I've only seen HDR on the 9400 which was a low contrast (compared to JVC and Sony PJ) without DTM. I'd say the HDR experience was fantastic on that despite its shortcomings because you could really appreciate in the increased colour gamut and due to how the human iris works, for some reason bright scenes felt VERY bright. I have never looked away from my OLED due to its brightness but strangely I did with the Epson.



This leads me to believe that with the right tone mapping, in a very treated room, the most comfortable HDR experience with the least amount of artifacts might lie in projection if you can accept its shortcomings for the GIGANTIC size of screen which makes our TVs look like postage stamps.

Visual TV Size Comparison : 110 inch 16x9 display vs 77 inch 16x9 display
There is my 77'' OLED against my 110'' screen.

.. and against 130''

.. and finally 150''
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
I do wonder if I can afford and source a 130'' 150'' ALR projector screen alongside a projector which can fill them at some point. If so, I would be an extremely happy person.

But then my other two projector screens would have to be put up for sale.
 

Cryfreman

Active Member
Motion on my GZ950 is laughably bad compared to my GT50 plasma. Keep messing with settings and now settle on 2 or 3 for film smooth/blur. Just a case now of putting up with it.
If a 4K plasma came out with near oled HDR performance this oled would be gone in the blink of an eye. Thinking of paying the bucks and going projector
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Motion on my GZ950 is laughably bad compared to my GT50 plasma. Keep messing with settings and now settle on 2 or 3 for film smooth/blur. Just a case now of putting up with it.
If a 4K plasma came out with near oled HDR performance this oled would be gone in the blink of an eye. Thinking of paying the bucks and going projector


Really is interesting. We have Panasonic owners saying their OLEDs are as good as their plasmas and we have Panasonic owners saying their OLEDs are crap compared to their plasmas.

I think motion, and appreciating the limitations of an OLED panel, is a real art form where some people simply don't notice it.
 
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