OLED motion - I think it has a way to go

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
So my LG OLED GX bit the dust today. God knows why.. one dead pixel then dead.

anyway, not big deal. Just get a new TV in from JL tommorow. But in the meantime I wanted to watch this anime from the 90s. I'd watched a few episodes on my OLED and it looked awful as you'd expect it to.

Played it on my HW40ES (sony projector) and all I can say is some flaws of an OLED are very obvious..
1. DSE/graininess/texture on the low saturated colours and poor content; I see this and it moves with the screen. Whether LG or Sony or Panasonic.. it seems to be a panel/technology issue. Things on animated content especially just don't look CLEAN in movement
2. Motion - put simply, the motion on OLEDs due to the instantenous pixel response time does not hold a candle to this £500 old projector, similar to probably how it doesn't to a plasma TV also.

I do wonder how if ever we will bridge this gap with OLED technology. Motion interpolation can only do so much. I have no motion interpolation on this PJ activated.. just natgive 24fps playback and its smooth.


Now OLEDs have a place in the tech world IMO.. and a place which make it hard to be usurped and its in:
1. HDR & Dolby vision due to pixel level control of colour and specular highlight detail retrieval
2. Gaming - the instant pixel response time which causes issues with 24hz content and white panning shots is the saving grace which makes video games so god damn amazing on an OLED panel


For home cinema though... I'm honestly now just not sure which is the right way to go. I think moving forwards for those that can afford it both money wise and space wise, surely something like a JVC NX5/7/9 is the pinnacle of home theatre (due to the high contrast panel) whilst a device like an Epson 9400 probably trades blows for film & TV dependant on what size of a screen you can create with it versus the OLED.

Any thoughts or similar experiences?
 

sebna

Member
Two OLEDs in home. JVC motion is a revelation. There is no going back for me. There simply is no comparison.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Two OLEDs in home. JVC motion is a revelation. There is no going back for me. There simply is no comparison.


JVC & Sony projectors are top tier for motion.. like top top top tier.

I remember my Epson 6050UB having a bit of trouble with anime but other than that, it was quite fantastic too. Do you find projection just magical? Its like the image just dance son the screen. Nothing is working too hard.. just flawless?

My plan is to go JVC when they release their next line of PJs (god knows when).
 

Zombie Twin

Active Member
Two OLEDs in home. JVC motion is a revelation. There is no going back for me. There simply is no comparison.

I agree. I have only been using my Panny GZ950 for about 2 months, and it's completely re-energised my enthusiasm for home viewing. I have "Film Smooth" set to "1", whilst not bothering with "Blur Reduction" and it gives me a really smooth image which has no hint of the dreaded "soap opera effect".

After suffering 18 months of the juddering on my Phillips 6703, I was driven to get a new TV, and the wife was OK with picking up an OLED. It's can become an overused word in this respect, but the GZ950 was a revelation!
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
I agree. I have only been using my Panny GZ950 for about 2 months, and it's completely re-energised my enthusiasm for home viewing. I have "Film Smooth" set to "1", whilst not bothering with "Blur Reduction" and it gives me a really smooth image which has no hint of the dreaded "soap opera effect".

After suffering 18 months of the juddering on my Phillips 6703, I was driven to get a new TV, and the wife was OK with picking up an OLED. It's can become an overused word in this respect, but the GZ950 was a revelation!


How is your GZ950 with 1917? I find that film completely destroys OLEDs as it has so many panning scenes with bright elements which ilicits the judder.
 

sebna

Member
JVC & Sony projectors are top tier for motion.. like top top top tier.

I remember my Epson 6050UB having a bit of trouble with anime but other than that, it was quite fantastic too. Do you find projection just magical? Its like the image just dance son the screen. Nothing is working too hard.. just flawless?

My plan is to go JVC when they release their next line of PJs (god knows when).

I know what you mean by Oled + Anime combination. That was the only combo that ever forced me to turn motion compensation on Oled and it was still not a nice experience.

I watched recently Howls Moving Castle on PJ and it was a bliss, without any motion enchantments. I got completely lost in the story rather then fiddling with motion options.

Also watching projected image in general is completely not fatiguing it is actually soothing if anything else.

Such a joy :)
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
I know what you mean by Oled + Anime combination. That was the only combo that ever forced me to turn motion compensation on Oled and it was still not a nice experience.

I watched recently Howls Moving Castle on PJ and it was a bliss, without any motion enchantments. I got completely lost in the story rather then fiddling with motion options.

Also watching projected image in general is completely not fatiguing it is actually soothing if anything else.

Such a joy :)


Agreeed... argh... I feel like the world of projection and vitamin D deficincy is calling back to me soon.. I have tried to fight it for a long time. I love OLED for the reference level HDR and Netflix especially benefits from it hugely.. and the colour volume... but I'm missing projection recently.

Not sure if the Epson 9400 will scratch the itch enough or if I can find an 7900 or N5 which has warranty for a good price..
 

Zombie Twin

Active Member
How is your GZ950 with 1917? I find that film completely destroys OLEDs as it has so many panning scenes with bright elements which ilicits the judder.

Haven't tried it, but I have found that a real torture test is on a daytime panning shot of the New York skyline during Spider-Man Homecoming, which looked dreadful on my Philips, but much more palatable on the Panny. It looks bad on LCD, and suspect that most TVs wouldn't be able to present it perfectly.

1606264505463.png
 
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sebna

Member
Agreeed... argh... I feel like the world of projection and vitamin D deficincy is calling back to me soon.. I have tried to fight it for a long time. I love OLED for the reference level HDR and Netflix especially benefits from it hugely.. and the colour volume... but I'm missing projection recently.

Not sure if the Epson 9400 will scratch the itch enough or if I can find an 7900 or N5 which has warranty for a good price..

I much prefer Netflix on PJ. X7900 has more natural colours than Oled and is better calibrated out of the box in compare.

When you watch it, it looks like PJ has wider colour gamut. There is more subtleties and niuances, gradients which are getting completely lost on my Oleds. This leads to more realistic look of what PJ presents. For this differences in colours, size difference is probably one reason but it is not only that.

In my room black levels with PJ are not that good and contrast is hurting at times but even in current state of affairs I (much) prefer PJ's picture. Motion quality for me easily outweigh the contrasts etc. and contrast will improve with room treatment.

There is however one serious drawback of my PJ and funnily enough nobody has mentioned it to me, nor I found any posts about it when I was doing my research.

X7900 needs 45min but really 1h for lamp to reach its full potential and give all the magic. I usually fire up system and let one episode of any series on Netflix play without sound and do some other stuff around the house only to start watching when it has warmed up and is ready for prime time :)

Which is wasteful which I don't like and normally don't do but I have very limited time to spare and it would be wasteful even more to use it on cold lamp.... Lesser evil sort to speak.
 

Jaded1

Member
OLED motion wasn't something I noticed up until recently. Now I've noticed it I agree, Motion is severly lacking on OLED so much that I'm thinking of going back to LCD.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
OLED motion wasn't something I noticed up until recently. Now I've noticed it I agree, Motion is severly lacking on OLED so much that I'm thinking of going back to LCD.


Even LCD isn't good. LCD you have blacksmear, ghosting, alongside the blooming/halo/BLB.

I don't like OLED motion that much but I still prefer it to LCD. At least OLED does 60fps video games PERFECTLY.
 

rccarguy

Active Member
What shows and movies specially? Maybe I've got use to 24hz judder.
 

sebna

Member
What shows and movies specially? Maybe I've got use to 24hz judder.
I got used to movies etc. But anime is on another level. Just try any and see for yourself.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Try Kaguya-sama. The white causes OLEDs REAL trouble at times due to the 'DSE'/graininess. Nothing THAT bad but nothing amazing.

Going old school, an anime which caused mine 'trouble' is Legend of galactic heroes 90s version. Its just got so many slow pans, some of them actually have built in judder but others are meant to be smooth. Just looks way messier than on the Sony PJ.



Don't get me wrong.. I still think OLEDs still win despite its motion issues because when their is a difficult scene which requires deep deep black.. it just nails it flawlessly..

But the gap isn't huge IMO.. and if you are projecting BIG.. then well.. OLEDs can't get bigger than 77'' without breaking a few bank balances lol.
 

rccarguy

Active Member
My Pioneer kuro had a 72hz mode you had to set options on specific settings to do this for 24hz matrtal, what do oled do,.triple it?
 

sebna

Member
Futurama is indeed fine, but it is not anime.

Try anything from Ghibly studio
 

rccarguy

Active Member
I've got Akira on r1 dvd, and on 720p file, and most studio ghilibi, girls und panzer, one punch man. Princess mononoke on r1 dvd
 

GrazzaB

Well-known Member
I could never get used to motion on my LG C6. Pans on 24p material were just horrible to watch and even with small motion on screen I could see the stutter. Same with 30fps gaming. It’s not the tech’s fault that it’s so responsive, but I’m always surprised that people rave about OLED motion when it’s literally nothing like the experience you get in a cinema with films due to the response time. A projector for me is so so much nicer with motion. Technically the response time isn’t as good but that makes 24 frame motion a lot nicer to watch.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Y
I could never get used to motion on my LG C6. Pans on 24p material were just horrible to watch and even with small motion on screen I could see the stutter. Same with 30fps gaming. It’s not the tech’s fault that it’s so responsive, but I’m always surprised that people rave about OLED motion when it’s literally nothing like the experience you get in a cinema with films due to the response time. A projector for me is so so much nicer with motion. Technically the response time isn’t as good but that makes 24 frame motion a lot nicer to watch.


People rave about the instant pixel response time for gaming I think
 

Michael7877

Active Member
So my LG OLED GX bit the dust today. God knows why.. one dead pixel then dead.

anyway, not big deal. Just get a new TV in from JL tommorow. But in the meantime I wanted to watch this anime from the 90s. I'd watched a few episodes on my OLED and it looked awful as you'd expect it to.

Played it on my HW40ES (sony projector) and all I can say is some flaws of an OLED are very obvious..
1. DSE/graininess/texture on the low saturated colours and poor content; I see this and it moves with the screen. Whether LG or Sony or Panasonic.. it seems to be a panel/technology issue. Things on animated content especially just don't look CLEAN in movement
2. Motion - put simply, the motion on OLEDs due to the instantenous pixel response time does not hold a candle to this £500 old projector, similar to probably how it doesn't to a plasma TV also.

I do wonder how if ever we will bridge this gap with OLED technology. Motion interpolation can only do so much. I have no motion interpolation on this PJ activated.. just natgive 24fps playback and its smooth.


Now OLEDs have a place in the tech world IMO.. and a place which make it hard to be usurped and its in:
1. HDR & Dolby vision due to pixel level control of colour and specular highlight detail retrieval
2. Gaming - the instant pixel response time which causes issues with 24hz content and white panning shots is the saving grace which makes video games so god damn amazing on an OLED panel


For home cinema though... I'm honestly now just not sure which is the right way to go. I think moving forwards for those that can afford it both money wise and space wise, surely something like a JVC NX5/7/9 is the pinnacle of home theatre (due to the high contrast panel) whilst a device like an Epson 9400 probably trades blows for film & TV dependant on what size of a screen you can create with it versus the OLED.

Any thoughts or similar experiences?

I don't watch much anime, but when I do, the best settings on my TV are motion interpolation and dejudder on full, smooth gradation medium, random noise reduction either on high or off (depending on noise present). The result is good, no worse than LCD or CRT imo

I hate to say it, but it might not be an unfixable problem of OLED displays, but an issue with LG's current generation picture processing of anime on OLED.

Sony TVs are known for their picture processing - motion handling and accurate colour specifically. Since I don't have the issues you describe, I think you should audition a Sony set to see if things could be better for you with a different TV.
I wouldn't suggest buying an A9G right now (the only option for a 77" Sony), as next year's sets will probably have HDMI 2.1 and are much less than a year away. It depends how much anime you watch and how bad the problem looks to you
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
I don't watch much anime, but when I do, the best settings on my TV are motion interpolation and dejudder on full, smooth gradation medium, random noise reduction either on high or off (depending on noise present). The result is good, no worse than LCD or CRT imo

I hate to say it, but it might not be an unfixable problem of OLED displays, but an issue with LG's current generation picture processing of anime on OLED.

Sony TVs are known for their picture processing - motion handling and accurate colour specifically. Since I don't have the issues you describe, I think you should audition a Sony set to see if things could be better for you with a different TV.
I wouldn't suggest buying an A9G right now (the only option for a 77" Sony), as next year's sets will probably have HDMI 2.1 and are much less than a year away. It depends how much anime you watch and how bad the problem looks to you

I’ve seen the motion processing on a Sony OLED with problem material. Sadly it’s the same and there, otherwise I would have bought one.

Its an OLED issue, albeit I think slightly less worse on Sony and Panasonic

I could potentially try a 77 AG9 and see how it fares... but I really doubt it’d do much and the loss of proper Dolby vision and hdmi 2.1 would be a bitter pill to swallow.


I think the solution is buying a JVC PJ lol
 

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