OLED cons

[kenshingintoki]

I have a B7 and don’t notice any of the issues mentioned myself. The picture quality is so much better than any LCD I’ve seen. They are pricey though and I’m annoyed that LG won’t update the software on older sets for Airplay 2. I think when you are spending this much you would be expecting to keep it many years. I’ll end up rectifying things with a box/smart device at some point I suppose but my issue is with LG not OLED as a technology.

Watch 1917 for some of the panning shots. Its a real stress test for OLED panels and ilicits the 24fps stutter on panning shots.

I haven't really noticed it on many other forms of TV other than a few episodes of Mr Robot.

LCDs do well to mask it with the inherent slower response of the panel, so it has a natural blacksmear/motion trail. OLEDs don't as everything happens instantly.

The only technology I know of which handles these scenes fairly flawessly is projection (but even then, I saw my old Epson 9400 struggle in a few instances; namely Anime which probably had the judder baked in).

 

[kenshingintoki]

I got my first OLED TV a couple months ago. A LG CX. I love it. But yeah, there are cons to it. Here are mine. I've elaborated on a couple of yours.

1. Burn in - I had read about it, and seen some YT videos about it. When I got my LG from Best Buy (Magnolia) I did get their extended warranty in part to protect against burn in. Their warranty does cover burn ins.
2. Cost - they seem much more expensive than non-OLED TVs the same size.
3. Top half of panel is soooo thin. Like it's as thin as a smart phone. And it bends a bit. It has me concerned that I might damage it with it gets shoved too hard. Or something gets knocked into it. Though currently, my LG is on a wall mount. Usually it stays put. But every once in a while I have to move it. I'll sometimes forget and grab the thin part, then realize it and grab the thicker bottom half. Or the wall mount handle in back.
4. Darker room - I have my "home theatre" (aka living room) relatively dark to enjoy the TV. With the blinds drawn. The screen is a lot more reflective than my previous Sony LCD TV. When I've had the blinds open during the day, I'm usually not directly watching something. But instead listening to music played on my speakers with some splash screen being displayed.

The thinness for me, although aesthetically pleasing, is also an issue in my mind.

I do sometimes wonder if they could make the top half of the TV less thing and then make the bottom half less obese. For example, the LG OLED GX has done a good job of this. Also as you said, although I haven't had anything close to a break, it just doesn't seem as secure.

Also, I'm not sure if that extra space if we used chunkier bodies could fit in better sound systems for that that use the TV for sound.

I think in truth the razer thin panel is just there to catch the eye of people at stores and differentiate it from other TVs.



**Apologies for triple post, thought someone had posted after me)

 

[gibbletts]

Not really. I just wanted to list the cons of an LCD so other users don't. I am not trying to get into an LCD vs OLED discussion; because put quite simply for anyone well versed in both technologies and owning both display types (such as myself; I own an OLED AND a high-end LCD with a backlight zone count probably higher than or near-equal to yours), its obvious which is better.

As you can see, the entire thread has been dedicated to and included posts from people listing the negatives of the OLED TVs (or saying they don't notice the issues I explained).

I find on the internet forums OLEDs are painted as the holy grail with only burn-in being an issue. If anything, I am bashing OLED for some very overlooked issues with the technology.

The only person who has sadly taken it this way is you; so likely you should be the one doing the growing up.

Whatever, but you realise you've proven my point with your 'I've got more zones than you' comment. I'll leave it there.

 

[kenshingintoki]

Whatever, but you realise you've proven my point with your 'I've got more zones than you' comment. I'll leave it there.

Not really. I've stated I have a good LCD TV; hence I'm not an 'OLED fanboy' if I've invested a good couple of thousand quid into the LCD ecosystem.

I am actually in an excellent position to objectively judge both forms of technology. Furthermore, this is clear by the entire thread where I've listed flaws of OLED and LCD, and asked users to only talk about the flaws of OLED.

 

[Digits75]

The only person who has sadly taken it this way is you; so likely you should be the one doing the growing up.

Got to agree. The reply is nothing but childish and pathetic.

For one who has been looking at OLED's vs QLED's for the past year I have appreciated the input from others.

 

[adbailey18]

Can I ask what people are doing with their OLED's which is so worrisome about the thinness of them?!

Like any piece of tech, or babies, handle them with care!

As for the burn in 'con' I've had OLED for the past 3 years and not seen any resemblance of it. Obviously usage is paramount but it's never been an issue for me, plenty films/gaming done on them.

 

[computershack]

I can only think that those commenting about the banding and the tinting are using test patterns and not actually seeing it during normal viewing.

Burn in isn't an issue literally unless you're watching the news channel 24/7 as RTings 12 month burn in test on six B6 TVs proved.

I work nights so our TVs get used a hell of a lot more than normal especially on a weekend where I maintain a night shift sleep pattern so it'll get watched during the day by the family but then I'll be using it until 4-5am in the morning. During winter it would be possible that it's in use almost constantly 19-20hrs out of every 24 on a weekend. I've had a 55EC930V that got hammered to hell with normal viewing and regular 6-8hr gaming sessions often playing just the same game for that period of time, a B7V that has had three years of similar use, neither have had any burn in issues. As for the banding at 5% I don't run test patterns so I've not noticed it and I've certainly not noticed any in normal viewing.

I now have a 48" CX which is used purely for gaming, youtube and a little with a PC and I don't envisage any issues with that either.

The only issue I do notice is with panning shots as people have said, I have everything turned off image processing wise so no de-judder or de-blur etc. It's not that much different to the Panasonic TX-P42G20B Plasma I used to have and the mid-range 2017 40" Samsung LED TV I had but it is a bit more noticeable however how much of that is down to the fact it's a 55" TV and not a 40" and the fact the source is a Sky box? Certainly when gaming I'm not noticing a problem.

 

[G a f f e r]

1. Burn in - this is solved by JL warranty and Temproary Image retention - I haven't seen this on my set but I imagine its annoying

People had the same worries about burn in with Pioneer's plasma Kuro sets - 11 years later and still no burn in on mine. Plus, I'm assuming tech at remedying this is evolving (e.g. newer sets with Advanced Logo Detection). .....and as you say, people like JL offer a warranty against this anyway.

2. Expensive for bigger screen sizes

I'm looking to buy a 65"OLED this year that's priced at at a very reasonable £2700, considerably cheaper than many LCD alternatives from Samsung et al. Unless by big you mean 80" - I haven't got the room to consider that anyway

3. 5% grey slide banding on near black - this is horrible and a big issue and required panel lottery and returning

Are you talking about near-black "crush" that occurs with OLEDs? Yep - that would be annoying (banding of any kind would be)....offset by the fact that at least black is black and not dark grey.

4. 24p content - 24p judder on panning shots and low framerate video games because the instant pixel response time is so.. instant. I found a slight solution to this is enabling some motion interpolation (on LG, cinema clear or tru motion de judder 3-4)

I agree - really bad and noticeable on LG sets I've seen. Then you look at the Sony/Panasonic sitting next to it and motion is smooth as butter so it depends on which manufacturer produces the best motion processing (I would argue LG lags behind it's competitors in this area from the sets i've seen). Many of the latest OLEDs have some form of AI processing that you can select with 24p films and really does look good from demo's I've seen.

5. ABL

I assume you mean that effect where pure white images get dimmed because the processor thinks it's a static image? (noticeable on some "the matrix" scenes for instance?). I recently saw a Panasonic HZ2000 with similar snow scenes and it didn't appear to do it at all - but I agree it could be annoying if I did see it (and it was in a brightly lit shop rather than a dimly lit living room so maybe that makes it more noticeable?).
(Unless of course you mean the Anti Banana League - in which case yes I agree "Down with Potassium , Down with Potassium, Down with Potas.......")



So with modern sets I think only 3 & 5 would worry me (if that happened on my TV) tbh.

 

[kenshingintoki]

People had the same worries about burn in with Pioneer's plasma Kuro sets - 11 years later and still no burn in on mine. Plus, I'm assuming tech at remedying this is evolving (e.g. newer sets with Advanced Logo Detection). .....and as you say, people like JL offer a warranty against this anyway.


I'm looking to buy a 65"OLED this year that's priced at at a very reasonable £2700, considerably cheaper than many LCD alternatives from Samsung et al. Unless by big you mean 80" - I haven't got the room to consider that anyway


Are you talking about near-black "crush" that occurs with OLEDs? Yep - that would be annoying (banding of any kind would be)....offset by the fact that at least black is black and not dark grey.


I agree - really bad and noticeable on LG sets I've seen. Then you look at the Sony/Panasonic sitting next to it and motion is smooth as butter so it depends on which manufacturer produces the best motion processing (I would argue LG lags behind it's competitors in this area from the sets i've seen). Many of the latest OLEDs have some form of AI processing that you can select with 24p films and really does look good from demo's I've seen.


I assume you mean that effect where pure white images get dimmed because the processor thinks it's a static image? (noticeable on some "the matrix" scenes for instance?). I recently saw a Panasonic HZ2000 with similar snow scenes and it didn't appear to do it at all - but I agree it could be annoying if I did see it (and it was in a brightly lit shop rather than a dimly lit living room so maybe that makes it more noticeable?).
(Unless of course you mean the Anti Banana League - in which case yes I agree "Down with Potassium , Down with Potassium, Down with Potas.......")



So with modern sets I think only 3 & 5 would worry me (if that happened on my TV) tbh.

2. Thanks mate, I meant 77'' inches when talking about expensive. 55' and 65' look like a bargain compared to their higher end LCD counterparts.

3. Nope, OLEDs suffer from pannel lottery in that they can get banding around a 5% grey scale which can be quite bad. It normally settles with time, but there is a huge degree of luck.

4. The judder is not specific to LG sets. Its present on Panasonic and Sony. This isn't a motion processor chip issue. It is a inherent issue with the OLED panels because the pixel response time is instant, and 24p films therefore actually benefit from the slower instant pixel response time of LCDs to hide flaws. If you google 'Sony OLED judder panning', it will come up with plenty of Sony OLED owners with the same issue. IMO its effects maybe 0.05% of scenes as the TVs do a good job of minimising it and only stressful films which want to pan for the entire film (like 1917) will show it. For this you can enable motion interpolation de judder (on either set, where Sony and Panasonic might be able to hide it better without SOE).

5. Yup, ABL.I'll be honest in that ABL on bright scenes I have never noticed on the CX. The C9 I did and do, but CX seems to be much better. However I do notice it very rarely on dark scenes which is annoying.

 

[Bruggelink]

Burn in isn't an issue literally unless you're watching the news channel 24/7 as RTings 12 month burn in test on six B6 TVs proved.

I have a C6, and after 12 months it was largely ok. But after two years ...

You can watch Netflix, but before you watch, you scroll through a list of junk-films you don't want to see. While browsing, the red Netflix logo is at the right bottom of the screen. After two years the letters 'Netflix' are permanently visible in whatever I watch.

The same happens when you go to YouTube, the red YouTube logo is at the right top of the screen, by now it is also a permanent 'asset'.

And finally : my wife's hearing is deteriorating, so we have subtitles on almost all of the time, the whole bottom of the screen is now covered with burn marks from that too.

So before you think this is not going to happen : the C9 and CX are not old enough to be compared.

 

[willz]

Is one not supposed to turn OLED off at the wall? I have my AVR and TV connected to an extension that I turn off at the wall with a smart plug after use.

 

[rccarguy2]

Is one not supposed to turn OLED off at the wall? I have my AVR and TV connected to an extension that I turn off at the wall with a smart plug after use.

After I use my TV, I leave it on standby for a couple of hours before switching off a the wall. If there is a compensation cycle, it'll do it on standby

 

[adbailey18]

Is one not supposed to turn OLED off at the wall? I have my AVR and TV connected to an extension that I turn off at the wall with a smart plug after use.

Not really, or at least give it 15 min before you do. The major cycle takes an hour, but there is an osm which pops up for that one. Or if you miss that osm and turn it off at the wall, an osm will tell you its failed or the like, and I think it will do it again or ask you to do a manual one (not sure exactly).

 

[Mattster67]

I've never had any burn in issues,yet, I have Eurosport on a lot. Though the TV does not like panning shots or motorbike on the fast bits. I also get blocks on black rather than grading. It is one of the older LG 55's though. 2016 or 17, cannot remember the year.

 

[Mane UK]

I don't disagree with anything here so far, good idea for a thread, could be useful to people.

A couple of things I haven't seen mentioned:
Calibration. Each pixel emits its own light, these must all be balanced or it will look wrong - there was a batch of LG with a very specific square on it due to the internal calibration tables being incorrect (a USB update to the numbers and they were fine!) I realise this is effectively baked-in burn-in (same symptoms, basically the same cause, differing outputs from neighbour pixels) but I thought it worth a mentioning.


Colour volume.
WRGB sub-pixel arrangement means colour washes out the brighter it goes. This is not an inherent oled flaw, but is inherent to the current gen with the sub-pixel structure they have.
This is hardly much of an issue to most people, the HDR quality means it is barely noticeable without a reference to compare to, but for me it is often a bit jarring. It may be more relevant for the next-gen videogames.

Neither of these are very bad, but I hadn't seen them mentioned, so felt I should add them.

 

[Beachcomber31]

I feel we don't talk openly and honestly about OLED cons (except burn in which everyone mentions). I feel OLED is clearly the best technology for home cinema PQ, and its evidenced by it winning every single blind TV shootout.

However it does have a few flaws. Wondering if anyone has encountered any others.

1. Burn in - this is solved by JL warranty and Temproary Image retention - I haven't seen this on my set but I imagine its annoying
2. Expensive for bigger screen sizes
3. 5% grey slide banding on near black - this is horrible and a big issue and required panel lottery and returning
4. 24p content - 24p judder on panning shots and low framerate video games because the instant pixel response time is so.. instant. I found a slight solution to this is enabling some motion interpolation (on LG, cinema clear or tru motion de judder 3-4)
5. ABL


I don't want this to go into an LCD vs OLED war but just talk about the drawbacks of OLED which people should maybe be aware of. But before someone else lists them after an LCD or anti-OLED user tries to start a debate, we all already know the LCD flaws of: poor blacks, poor viewing angles, chunky form factor, slow pixel response time, motion blur, black smear, halo effects, banding on every colour if its there, dirty screen effect, screen uniformity issues, poor contrast, no pixel level control, backlight banding on FALD sets, worse SDR/HDR performance. I just wanted to get that out there so we don't have an OLED vs LCD debate because I don't want this thread to be about that.

Given those five flaws, I can't really find any others which come to mind and think the TVs are pretty god damn perfect.

Any flaw with an OLED panel you've noticed which you wish you'd known about?

Contrary to what you say, burn in is not covered by warranty. How many flaws do you need? Here's another - the blacks on OLED are inky black and completely swamp any detail.

 

[sagaris99]

Contrary to what you say, burn in is not covered by warranty. How many flaws do you need? Here's another - the blacks on OLED are inky black and completely swamp any detail.

Detail is your friend, maybe read a bit wider. @kenshingintoki referred to the John Lewis warranty as the Protect Plus cover, which covers burn in.

 

[rccarguy2]

Contrary to what you say, burn in is not covered by warranty. How many flaws do you need? Here's another - the blacks on OLED are inky black and completely swamp any detail.

Yeah my LG has black crush. Not sure if all oled have it, or ISF calibration sorts it.

300 is the worst

 

[kenshingintoki]

Contrary to what you say, burn in is not covered by warranty. How many flaws do you need? Here's another - the blacks on OLED are inky black and completely swamp any detail.

shadow detail retrieval is really based on display calibration. oled black crush is a thing of the past. LCDs mess up blacks more than OLEDs crush blacks.

 

[fluxedman]

I agree - really bad and noticeable on LG sets I've seen. Then you look at the Sony/Panasonic sitting next to it and motion is smooth as butter so it depends on which manufacturer produces the best motion processing (I would argue LG lags behind it's competitors in this area from the sets i've seen). Many of the latest OLEDs have some form of AI processing that you can select with 24p films and really does look good from demo's I've seen.

Its been widely said sonys have excellent motion processing and less judder, but according to one guy who has a 2019 sony oled and a 2020 lg cx oled, he said lgs motion processing has caught up with the sony and no difference really.

I don't think anyone's really done a full on direct test of it though like vincent t or fomo guy, would be awesome to see both side by side till then id assume the above guy is right and LGs catched up.

 

[kenshingintoki]

Its been widely said sonys have excellent motion processing and less judder, but according to one guy who has a 2019 sony oled and a 2020 lg cx oled, he said lgs motion processing has caught up with the sony and no difference really.

I don't think anyone's really done a full on direct test of it though like vincent t or fomo guy, would be awesome to see both side by side till then id assume the above guy is right and LGs catched up.

i think sony's will be better but it won't eliminate the flaws of OLED's capability to handle difficult motion scenes.

Sony's motion is absolutely fantastic and IMO best-in-class but its going to struggle to defeat technological limitations.

LG's is okay.

 

[fluxedman]

One very poor point about OLEDs is the reliability factor.

My LG CX OLED lasted 10 weeks before its mainboard started to fail (clicking noise)

In comparison all my LED panels lasted 2-3 years roughly, which is still not that impressive but certainly long enough to enjoy it and usually the repairs went successful and fast and free under 5 year warranty.

But the odd winner is my LCD TVs, I have a philips LCD which is 20 years old
and it still works fine, looks hideous and terrible and 1080i and is yellow pages thick but
its built like a tank and probably will last like one.

Course could be a one off but I see lots of hardware issues with OLEDS but usually panel issues.
(banding, tinting, lines etc)

 

[fluxedman]

i think sony's will be better but it won't eliminate the flaws of OLED's capability to handle difficult motion scenes.

Sony's motion is absolutely fantastic and IMO best-in-class but its going to struggle to defeat technological limitations.

LG's is okay.

I do remember asking you and others early on probably 6 months back, but did you have both modern sony and oled sets and compared it yourself ?

Its well spoken off with sonys processing handling I agree, just nice too have some solid A/B thoughts on it.