OLED Burn In Risk

mikej

Well-known Member
This has pretty much confirmed OLED isn't for me if this the case. Wish I saw this months ago 🤦‍♂️ would have saved a lot of headaches!
How long would you need to leave the TV in standby for, until it was "safe" to use again?
The regular pixel maintenance cycle that occurs when you put a Panasonic OLED into standby will run if the TV has been on continuously for 4 hours - I would expect other manufacturers to be similar. It only takes between 5-10 mins to run.

I occasionally have my OLED on for more than 4 hours I suspect, but never think to turn it off purposely after 4 hours just to run the cycle. Don't get me wrong - I take a lot of care with my OLED, but even I would consider that a bit unnecessary. IMO, the important thing is that it does run once you've finished your session.

However - saying that - I probably would consider doing that if the TV was going to be on all day, every day though. In that case, putting it into standby for 10 minutes while you make a drink/snack/meal once or twice a day isn't exactly a big deal. The TV's LED will normally tell you when the cycle is running.

If you tend to leave it on all day on certain problematic channels, then uneven pixel wear ('screen burn') might be an issue in the long term, depending on your chosen picture settings and exactly what the TV is left showing. In that case, an LCD may by the better, worry-free, option.
 

gds1972

Active Member
The regular pixel maintenance cycle that occurs when you put a Panasonic OLED into standby will run if the TV has been on continuously for 4 hours - I would expect other manufacturers to be similar. It only takes between 5-10 mins to run.

I occasionally have my OLED on for more than 4 hours I suspect, but never think to turn it off purposely after 4 hours just to run the cycle. Don't get me wrong - I take a lot of care with my OLED, but even I would consider that a bit unnecessary. IMO, the important thing is that it does run once you've finished your session.

However - saying that - I probably would consider doing that if the TV was going to be on all day, every day though. In that case, putting it into standby for 10 minutes while you make a drink/snack/meal once or twice a day isn't exactly a big deal. The TV's LED will normally tell you when the cycle is running.

If you tend to leave it on all day on certain problematic channels, then uneven pixel wear ('screen burn') might be an issue in the long term, depending on your chosen picture settings and exactly what the TV is left showing. In that case, an LCD may by the better, worry-free, option.

I know on my LG if it's been on for more than 4 hours or if the accumulated total is more than 4 hours since it has carried out pixel maintenance it will automatically run the next time the TV is turned off. And the same with the maintenance cycle that runs after 2000 hours. I would suspect Panasonic would be the same.
 

Bruggelink

Active Member
If they covered burn in within warranty then people could literally be using the TVs with static content on a regular basis
But they should have the decency to warn buyers about this problem. I bought a tv totally unaware of this and it is completely ruined. Even using subtitles will ruin it.
 

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MEGATAMA

Well-known Member
Is this burn-in as bad or worse than the problem plasma's had/have?
This is not burn in,burn in on plasma you could prevent but here pixels just age...depends how much you use tv and what kind of content.
 

JustTheFacts

Active Member
This is not burn in,burn in on plasma you could prevent but here pixels just age...depends how much you use tv and what kind of content.
OLED TVs have a lifespan of 100,000 hours, which is equal to watching TV 24 hours per day, for 11.4 years. If you plan on using your TV for over 11.4 years then buy an LED.
 
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Dodgexander

Moderator
Is this burn-in as bad or worse than the problem plasma's had/have?
It works the same way. You'll hear people say its worse, but stationary images were a no-go on either technology due to the risk.

Evaluate based on your own usage whether you think you'll be at risk or not.
 

MEGATAMA

Well-known Member
It works the same way. You'll hear people say its worse, but stationary images were a no-go on either technology due to the risk.

Evaluate based on your own usage whether you think you'll be at risk or not.
It dose not work the same way,on oleds this wear of pixels stack on plasmas not.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
It dose not work the same way,on oleds this wear of pixels stack on plasmas not.
You mean that pixel wear is cumulative on OLED? This was discussed some time ago and detail added to the OP.

Both technologies can suffer burn in from repeated, unvaried usage. Even LCD TVs can if you push them hard enough.

The outcome however will be exactly the same on both OLED and Plasma with repeated usage of static elements, logos or tickers.

Plasma TVs have many disadvantages compared to OLEDs despite their being less pixel degradation. For starters they didn't have compensation cycles to remove image retention - this mean image retention would often stay for days, after use. If they were used to display content with static elements, logos or tickers to the point where they had bad image retention, permanent damage was already done.

There would one one scenario where a Plasma TV would be better to reduce risk of burn in compared to OLED and that's if the user tended to use the TV for risky content regularly, at small amounts at one time...but not too long at one single point otherwise the damage may have already been done.
 

techfan1967

Active Member
I'm strongly considering purchasing one of the new Philips OLEDs announced earlier this week but I admit I'm worried about burn-in.

I play a lot of PlayStation games(no more than 2 hours straight) and I'm also an avid sports follower so it might happen that my TV is switched on for 12 straight hours, sometimes with static images and/or scoreboards like the below:



I'm particularly worried for snooker, in this particular image the bright light in-between Coral at the back and the scoreboard(especially the scoreboard) can be on screen for 30-45 minutes and since I get image retention on my 15-year old LCD when watching it, I guess OLED will be even worse?

I understand Philips have a technology which reduces the brightness of the pixels that display the logo but is it enough together with me turning off the TV every four hours for 15 minutes for the pixels optimisation cycle to kick in?

And a final question: is burn-in permanent?

Cheers.
 
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JustTheFacts

Active Member
I'm strongly considering purchasing one of the new Philips OLEDs announced earlier this week but I admit I'm worried about burn-in.

I play a lot of PlayStation games(no more than 2 hours straight) and I'm also an avid sports follower so it might happen that my TV is switched on for 12 straight hours, sometimes with static images and/or scoreboards like the below:



I'm particularly worried for snooker, in this particular image the bright light in-between Coral at the back and the scoreboard(especially the scoreboard) can be on screen for 30-45 minutes and since I get image retention on my 15-year old LCD when watching it, I guess OLED will be even worse?

I understand Philips have a technology which reduces the brightness of the pixels that display the logo but is it enough together with me turning off the TV every four hours for 15 minutes for the pixels optimisation cycle to kick in?

And a final question: is burn-in permanent?

Cheers.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
I'm strongly considering purchasing one of the new Philips OLEDs announced earlier this week but I admit I'm worried about burn-in.

I play a lot of PlayStation games(no more than 2 hours straight) and I'm also an avid sports follower so it might happen that my TV is switched on for 12 straight hours, sometimes with static images and/or scoreboards like the below:



I'm particularly worried for snooker, in this particular image the bright light in-between Coral at the back and the scoreboard(especially the scoreboard) can be on screen for 30-45 minutes and since I get image retention on my 15-year old LCD when watching it, I guess OLED will be even worse?

I understand Philips have a technology which reduces the brightness of the pixels that display the logo but is it enough together with me turning off the TV every four hours for 15 minutes for the pixels optimisation cycle to kick in?

And a final question: is burn-in permanent?

Cheers.
You may be okay if you run the TV at a low brightness level, and let the TV cycle every 4h, but constant use of static elements is really putting you into danger territory. Games won't be risky so much unless they have static elements themselves, and you may be okay with snooker since there's only an open irregularly. But I personally wouldn't risk it with your usage.
 

Nightmonkey3311

Standard Member
I am thinking about putting some more money in my budget and getting a LG 55BX6LB OLED. My usage is YouTube, Streaming (Netflix, Prime, iPlayer etc) and some PS5 (usually play upto 2 hours a day for a week or two then dont touch it again for a while, for example completed Spider-Man in a week, didn’t play for a week then played watchdogs for 2 or 3 hours an evening for a week, havent touched it in 2 weeks now) oh and sometimes a little Minecraft for a couple hours, but again would only be for a week or so before I got bored and stopped for weeks again.

There have been quite a few movies come out recently that I want to watch (Gemini Man, Joker, Gravity, Bladerunner 2049 etc) but didn’t want to waste them on my 2012 LG 1080p tv, so held off to get a new tv first. I watch some old content such as old Doctor Who and dark content like Walking Dead, Fear the Walking Dead and some bright colourful content like RuPaul drag race, so I would say pretty varied usage. I watch some content with static logos such as BBC iPlayer with that damned BBC logo in the corner, but no more than 2/3 hours a time.

The TV is in a dark bedroom with usually a dim lamp or no light on. Even on my LCD tv, I always have a sleep timer set as I cannot stand waking up with the TV on. If I pause its no more than 10 mins. From my understanding of the drawbacks and risks of OLED, my usage seems very low risk? If I spend this money on a TV I will keep it for 8+ years (I got 9 from my LCD, which is still perfectly working), is this likely to last me that time without banding, noticeable degradation or burn in? I’m torn between this and saving a little money and risk by going for Sony 55XH9005 (9505 doesn’t have the HDMI features I’m looking for)

Thanks in advance :thumbsup:

EDIT: I will 100% be paranoid though, probably view those screen test videos on YouTube pretty frequently :rotfl:
 
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Dodgexander

Moderator
I am thinking about putting some more money in my budget and getting a LG 55BX6LB OLED. My usage is YouTube, Streaming (Netflix, Prime, iPlayer etc) and some PS5 (usually play upto 2 hours a day for a week or two then dont touch it again for a while, for example completed Spider-Man in a week, didn’t play for a week then played watchdogs for 2 or 3 hours an evening for a week, havent touched it in 2 weeks now) oh and sometimes a little Minecraft for a couple hours, but again would only be for a week or so before I got bored and stopped for weeks again.

There have been quite a few movies come out recently that I want to watch (Gemini Man, Joker, Gravity, Bladerunner 2049 etc) but didn’t want to waste them on my 2012 LG 1080p tv, so held off to get a new tv first. I watch some old content such as old Doctor Who and dark content like Walking Dead, Fear the Walking Dead and some bright colourful content like RuPaul drag race, so I would say pretty varied usage. I watch some content with static logos such as BBC iPlayer with that damned BBC logo in the corner, but no more than 2/3 hours a time.

The TV is in a dark bedroom with usually a dim lamp or no light on. Even on my LCD tv, I always have a sleep timer set as I cannot stand waking up with the TV on. If I pause its no more than 10 mins. From my understanding of the drawbacks and risks of OLED, my usage seems very low risk? If I spend this money on a TV I will keep it for 8+ years (I got 9 from my LCD, which is still perfectly working), is this likely to last me that time without banding, noticeable degradation or burn in? I’m torn between this and saving a little money and risk by going for Sony 55XH9005 (9505 doesn’t have the HDMI features I’m looking for)

Thanks in advance :thumbsup:

EDIT: I will 100% be paranoid though, probably view those screen test videos on YouTube pretty frequently :rotfl:
There's nothing about your usage that really puts you at risk. Even the iPlayer logo is dim and white which isn't very high risk at all. If you left iPlayer interface on the screen constantly the bright pink may pose a problem, but the screensaver should kick in for that. Minecraft is probably the highest risk, but not even sure its elements are bright in parts, and if you don't play it very often it won't be a problem.
 

Nightmonkey3311

Standard Member
There's nothing about your usage that really puts you at risk. Even the iPlayer logo is dim and white which isn't very high risk at all. If you left iPlayer interface on the screen constantly the bright pink may pose a problem, but the screensaver should kick in for that. Minecraft is probably the highest risk, but not even sure its elements are bright in parts, and if you don't play it very often it won't be a problem.
Thanks for the reply!

I didn’t think my usage was too risky. With Minecraft, I haven’t touched it in like 2/3 months. I’ll go through a phase of playing it 2/3 hours a night for a couple days then go weeks/months without touching it. I assume the risky part of it would be the hotbar and health bar as they’re static? Or is the risk that most of the content is bright green?
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Bright colours are most risky, certain pixels wear more than others. They make tweaks each year to make the pixels more robust. In fact, that's the reason next year that they are able to release brighter OLEDs. Those will only be the super expensive models though.

So if there's a static part that is bright red or yellow for example, it will pose a risk if used a lot on the TV. Most games have huds, but not bright ones. You can always adjust the TV to be dimmer, or use auto logo luminance adjustment which will detect and dim static elements independently.

There are people I've known to even watch news channels on OLEDs and not worry about it because they run the panel at a very low brightness level.
 

Bruggelink

Active Member
What model of tv is this?pre 18?
This is the 2016 model, but I bought it in August 2017. The OLED technology has not changed since then, but the software has been adapted to protect better for burnin. Although I fail to see how that could prevent burnin from subtitles.
 

Bruggelink

Active Member
OLED TVs have a lifespan of 100,000 hours, which is equal to watching TV 24 hours per day, for 11.4 years. If you plan on using your TV for over 11.4 years then buy an LED.
The problem is that the colours do not age at the same speed. The red OLED is more vulnerable, and becomes darker in places where there is repeated red or bright light. The logo of Netflix, the logo of YouTube, the clock of BBC-news. So while the TV may have a long lifespan, it becomes ugly, every redish tint (and even green) will have pockmarks, certainly not worth the 3000 € I paid for it.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
They do make adjustments to the panels each year to boost durability. The new brighter OLEDs in 2021 are even more durable (part of why they can get brighter).
If anyone is interested, here's a video explaining it:

It shows up close how each pixel of the TV is created, including the tweaks they make to each colour. For example in 2020 they boosted the size of the red, making red more durable. This time in 21 they boost green, and use a different mass to increase durability.

Since 2017 burn in risk has improved substantially, I think it was that year that LG made a breakthrough with software to help avoid it.
 

Bruggelink

Active Member
They do make adjustments to the panels each year to boost durability. The new brighter OLEDs in 2021 are even more durable (part of why they can get brighter).
If anyone is interested, here's a video explaining it:

It shows up close how each pixel of the TV is created, including the tweaks they make to each colour. For example in 2020 they boosted the size of the red, making red more durable. This time in 21 they boost green, and use a different mass to increase durability.

Since 2017 burn in risk has improved substantially, I think it was that year that LG made a breakthrough with software to help avoid it.
I follow this YouTube channel. Vincent always looks at brand new TVs, never returns to a set that has been used for say 3 or more years. I guess one expects a TV that costs a lot of money to last for say 10 years. I am sure LG tries to improve their panels, although now that I read a lot about it, OLED looks like a flawed system. Tomorrow an LG technician will visit me to determine what it will cost to have my panel replaced... because I'd rather keep this model as it was the last one with 3D. Will keep you posted.
 

JustTheFacts

Active Member
Since 2017 burn in risk has improved substantially, I think it was that year that LG made a breakthrough with software to help avoid it.
It really doesn't matter what caused the improved substantially with respect to burn in on 2018 and newer OLED TVs. The actual 3 year tests tests run by millions of OLED owners on 2018 and newer TVs show that OLED Burn In is no longer a reasonable concern. "The proof is in the pudding."

With that being said every manufactuer of OLED TVs uses different "software" with the LG supplied panels (hardware). Based on this factor it may have more to do with hardware than software.

The reason LG is the primary supplier of OLED panels is because the manufacturing of OLED panels has many hurdles. If it was easy there would be more OLED panel manufacturers. To have a manufacturing process that creates 100 percent quality panels may have taken some time to perfect. For this reason I think the manufacturing process may have improved in 2018. On older OLED panels LG has admitted they had some manufacturing discrepancies (info from ratings.com). For this reason I believe the quality of the manufacturing process may have improved in 2018.

LG has also made some engineering improvements to their panels since 2018 (pixel size).

Something has greatly reduced the possibility of permanent burn in since 2018. What it is doesn't matter. There have been millions of tests run by actual owners since 2018. These millions of tests cover every possible usage senerio with the results showing that burn in is no longer a reasonable concern for almost any type of usage.
 
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mikej

Well-known Member
Tomorrow an LG technician will visit me to determine what it will cost to have my panel replaced... because I'd rather keep this model as it was the last one with 3D. Will keep you posted.

But - seeing as it's a 2016 model and pre-dates a lot of the more recent developments - even if the panel is replaced, you'll presumably still get 'burn in' again in the same way and in a similar period of time unless you change your viewing habits and/or picture settings considerably. Is that something you think you could do or would be willing to do ? I agree that you shouldn't have to, but you now know what will happen if you don't.

I guess whether it's actually worth getting a new panel will depend on the cost. If it's an LG OLED and you get offered the one-time, low charge panel replacement we keep reading about then it could be worth it in order to get another 3-4 years from it, but I would be wary of 'throwing good money after bad' if you don't get that option and the cost is too high, personally. OLEDs often get written off for exactly that reason, with panel changes running to 4-figure sums.
 

Bruggelink

Active Member
But - seeing as it's a 2016 model and pre-dates a lot of the more recent developments - even if the panel is replaced, you'll presumably still get 'burn in' again in the same way and in a similar period of time unless you change your viewing habits and/or picture settings considerably. Is that something you think you could do or would be willing to do ? I agree that you shouldn't have to, but you now know what will happen if you don't.

I guess whether it's actually worth getting a new panel will depend on the cost. If it's an LG OLED and you get offered the one-time, low charge panel replacement we keep reading about then it could be worth it in order to get another 3-4 years from it, but I would be wary of 'throwing good money after bad' if you don't get that option and the cost is too high, personally. OLEDs often get written off for exactly that reason, with panel changes running to 4-figure sums.
True. I have been thinking along the same line. Everyone here seems to think that current panels are immune to burnin. I'm not so sure about that, and neither is Vincent Teoh, why would he give advice to prevent burnin if it was no longer an issue?

So while I absolutely prefer the image quality of OLED I will not return to it, as we are too dependent on subtitles (living in Belgium), and I will rather have a look at the quality of the new technologies that are being introduced this year.

The eventual repairing of the current tv is just a way of trying to hold on to the 3D technology of that model for a little longer, which on a 4k tv looks very good.
 

anotheruser

Active Member
I watch Cbeebies for about an hour (max 2) in the morning and up to 3 in the evening.

The morning has a smaller logo.
The last hour of the evening has a different logo.
All logos revolve every 10 mins or so for about a minute.

The logo is mainly black, white and yellow wiht touches of blue.

Should I be worried about burn in?
 

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