Panasonic's last high end TV was my own TVl; the DX902 from 2016. They place all efforts into OLED in the high end now.
Sony's high end TV is the 2018 ZF9, they have a XG9505 model which is similar to the Samsung Q80R overall.
LG's LCDs are not to be compared with other models, even the SUHD ones are poor overall options with picture quality and have poor HDR picture quality especially.
Dodgexander, thank you very much for the detailed reply. What I meant was what's the high end OLED model from Sony/Panasonic/LG?
The Sony ag9 has some picture improvements over the ag8, it being a master series. No?There’s no high end oled from Sony or LG - all their sets use the same oled panel. The only difference between their oleds is features and “improved” sound as you go through the range.
Panasonic offer the GZ2000 which is a specially tweaked oled panel. However it’s not inherently different compared to all oled panels.
Hmm. Pro reviews seem to rate the ag9 higher picture wise. Mind you that could also be said of the c9 over the b9.
Yes, LCDs have been able to reproduce SDR to the pinnacle for some time now, even cheaper edge lit models. Its a bad idea to spend a lot of money on an LCD unless you use a lot of HDR.I see it mentioned here by Dodgexander that there isn't much difference between cheaper LCD and the most expensive ones. Unless you watch HDR. Is this really the case, Dodgexander?
Not sure if you know already but SD itself is not the same as SDR. The same can be said with HD, which is not the same as HDR.The way I see it so far is like this:
The LCD screens represented by Qled have their limitations in terms of blacks. LCD is an old tried and tested technology but that doesn't mean that it is out of date. On the contrary, it still has many advantages over the competitors. Nevertheless, in order to take advantage of the best it has to offer one has to buy one of the top of the range models Q80, 85, 90. Samsung has no competition either with this type of panel which could explain the high prices which are higher than OLED. On the negative side the Qled screens are not much better than much cheaper LCDs for SD viewing which is the Average Joe's main viewing. Currently Qleds do not have HDMI 2.1 either wihc makes them less future proof.
The OLED screens are much better at black levels and their prices fair better than Qled. However, the technology is still in its early stages and there are several shortcomings. The main and most obvious one is the dreaded burnin issue. There is much discussion on the web regarding whether this issue it is obverblown or not. Leaving aside its degree, The fact is that burnin is real. The manufacturers' reluctance to cover it under warranty reinforces this fact and is concerning. Dimming logos and screensavers are fair enough but having to turn the TV off after 2-3 hours of watching so it can perform the maintenance cycle is ridiculous.
I have watched a few review videos of various brnads of OLED screens and I have to say that the screens are like a mirror and reflect anything. In order to be able to enjoy TV one must do so in a dark room. A hell of a lot worse than an LCD screen.
So at this moment in time I am not prepared to throw £1.5k and above to any of these screens. If OLED or Qled want my money then they would have to try harder to earn it. I will wait to see what next year's models bring. If Qled continues to improve and includes 2.1 then I will be very tempted. Afterall, there has to be a reason why Samsung decided against OLED and stuck with LCD technology.
Until then, as they say in Dragon's Den, I'm Out!
I'm confident that the 2017 and 2016 models definitely do not have the logo dimming feature, it was added only in 2018.Dodge do you know if the C6 and C7 TVs have Logo Luminance Adjustment that runs in the back ground. I hear conflicting reports from Forums. Would appreciate your input.
Owners on Forums say their static logos go dim after 2 minutes on C6 and C7 TVs. Is this correct?
It's a hot topic right now and you can understand why, so you have £1500+~ to spend on a new TV, there is a TV that hits all the boxes and its an OLED...but..
Oh my god no! Burn in is not covered by warranty, this means I am going to have a problem!!!
Contrary to how it may read sometimes both online in general and here at AVF, burn in is not a common problem with OLEDs, certainly no more of a common problem than it was in the Plasma days.
This forum and the internet in general is a place where people mostly come when they have a problem, there aren't many cases on the forum (or online for that matter) where there is an incentive for someone to tell us how fantastic their OLED is and how they haven't suffered from burn in. People naturally report when they have a problem, not when they don't!
The internet is a wealth of information that can make you believe any TV or any problem is a big one if you search long and hard enough. It's a little similar to when you open a newspaper to page 3, you know what you are getting.
Not only that, but OLEDs now are the TV to own, they are at their lowest in price they have ever been and they offer upgrades for most people in all areas compared to LCDs at a price where not only enthusiasts can afford them, but many regular Joes like you or I too.
In 2017 they have sold crazy well. Not only sold now by LG, but Panasonic, Sony and Philips too. LG themselves offer the most attractive prices and took a massive leap in the high end market share over Samsung in 2017.
So what do you get on the internet and here on AVF when a TV sells so much?
You are more likely to read an issue, simply because they sold more OLEDs to begin with!!
Believe me, if you moderated on the forums you would see. The OLED related threads (and arguments/disagreements) are two fold compared to any other type of TV. Most of the discussion and traffic here is directed in OLED owners threads!!
The same can be said about every good selling TV though. In 2017 many people reported problems with the Sony XE9005 and its frame repeat issue. Would this be such a hot topic if Sony didn't sell as many TVs? No.
In 2016 the best selling TV by far was the Samsung KS7000 and it was the same again that year, many problems reporting poor build quality, panel issues, motion stutter. If you sell a TV so well, you will see more problems online...it does not mean the TV is a bad buy, often it can seem that way but usually if a TV sells well, it does so for a reason.
It does not mean there is more likely to be a problem just because a TV sells more.
If you look at failure rates or conducted a survey of every OLED owner most people will tell you they haven't even noticed temporary image retention, let alone burn in!
So what do you need to ask yourself when it comes to burn in? What can help you decide whether you risk burn in or not?
Reasons you may suffer from burn in:
You have unusually invariable viewing patterns:
You could tick all the boxes above and not be affected by burn in. Burn in isn't just about the length of which you show static/common images, but also how often and how regularly you do.
- Do you like to leave the news channel on all day?
- Do your children often watch cartoons and leave a cartoon channel on with a static logo in the corner for hours?
- Do you often play the same video game that has a static hud in the corner for hours?
- Do you like to use your television for productivity and spend hours looking at the windows taskbar?
You have unusually invariable daily and weekly viewing patterns:
Reasons you will not suffer from burn in:
- You are a one channel kind of guy, you hate change and like to have that news channel on for hours at a time every day for hours at a time for weeks.
- Your children are addicted to the same cartoon channel and you've lost control over them, they relentlessly watch the cartoon channel with that static logo each day for hours, they refuse to go to bed.
- You are that guy who likes long gaming sessions, but you don't just have the odd one, you like to game for hours at a time as soon as you get home at night until you drop. You never get fed up with a game and you like to play only one game at a time.
- You intend to use the TV for content creation and as a PC monitor every day, you need to meet those deadlines each week and that requires a lot of time in front of your OLED to get that final project finished. You are a work addict and use your TV this way every day.
Here are some useful notes and Links:
- You don't meet both the viewing patterns and the daily and weekly viewing patterns above and just use the TV with variation like most people do. Even if you are a big gamer you have a variation in what you play and you use the TV for more than one task.
- You are sensible and don't leave the same image on the TV for hours.
- You don't turn off the screensaver feature of the TV.
- You don't whack the OLED backlight on full and use VIVID picture mode and have your TV incorrectly calibrated.
- When you pause your TV/Game or leave a static image the TV's screen-saver will appear after 2 minutes. You can also use a source screen size, eg windows/fire tv screensaver etc.
What happens when you abuse your OLED TV.
What happens when you use your OLED TV for normal tasks.
OLED TV Reliability: Burn-In, & More | LG USA
- The risk of burn in with OLEDs is actually less than it was in the Plasma days. It's no more likely to happen now than then.
- Its not only OLEDs that can suffer from burn in, abuse any type of display (even LCD) and you can get burn in. Just take a look at some of the old LCDs in pubs.
- Youtube is full of people claiming to be experts and misleading people, do not believe everything you watch on Youtube. I don't want to name and shame but there are some really laughable content creators out there who literally will say anything to make a few extra views. Do not believe their rubbish! I am sure if you read this, you know the kind of channels I am talking about.
Hopefully this helps people make an informed decision and sorts out a lot of the scare mongering and misinformation out there about OLEDs. It should be pretty easy to tell for most people if they think burn in will be a problem or not, just ask yourself the right questions.
If there is anything I have missed or anything you think I should add, please let me know!
EDIT# 16th July 2019.
Its contained in the rtings.com real life test linked above but there is integral info provided by the rtings.com burn in test here:
If you use their method of calculation, you can effectively calculate from your own usage patten how soon it may be that you encounter any burn in on an OLED. In the example they use it would take 7 years of playing the same computer game with the same hud before you start to be at risk. Obviously this is not going to match many peoples usage as most people will not play the same game for 7 years, but it gives you an idea from being able to self-calculate how prone you may be to the risk.
EDIT* 18/06/20 - John Lewis offer accidental damage insurance you can pay extra for which includes OLED burn in. If you feel you are at risk of burn in, I'd suggest buying this along with an OLED directly from them.
John Lewis appear to have upped there game in the sale of OLED’s offering additional Accidental Damage Insurance as an add on purchase. Hopefully other retailers follow. £140 for additional insurance based on the 65C9 Does this mark the end of the worry for Burn In on OLED? Product Info;www.avforums.com
Any TV since 2017 is pretty steadfast when it comes to burn in prevention. Pixel degradation has everything to do with how the TV is used.
This has pretty much confirmed OLED isn't for me if this the case. Wish I saw this months ago would have saved a lot of headaches!If you are looking for the kind of TV you can keep on for 6-8 hour a day, every day and not have gaps where its in standby inbetween then that is when you may consider going for an LCD.